Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill & Family, General News Part 3: Sept 2017 -

[LadyFinn]

Margareta Thorgren to Expressen:
- The family is now focusing on establishing itself and creating ordinary life in the new country.
When Princess Madeleine is now living in the United States, she will not be able to participate in any official context during the fall, said Margareta Thorgren.
- The family moved this fall, which means that it is very new to the family. Three children to come into everyday life, new schools and a new environment, says Margareta Thorgren.
Madeleines och Chris beslut för familjen – kommer inte på Nobelfesten

And the gossip press is already attacking Madeleine because of the decision not to attend at the Nobel festivities.

 

[Mbruno]

Margareta Thorgren to Expressen:
- The family is now focusing on establishing itself and creating ordinary life in the new country.
When Princess Madeleine is now living in the United States, she will not be able to participate in any official context during the fall, said Margareta Thorgren.
- The family moved this fall, which means that it is very new to the family. Three children to come into everyday life, new schools and a new environment, says Margareta Thorgren.
Madeleines och Chris beslut för familjen – kommer inte på Nobelfesten

And the gossip press is already attacking Madeleine because of the decision not to attend at the Nobel festivities.

Is Princess Madeleine still indirectly funded under the Queen's household ? At least when she was working for the World Childhood Foundation in New York, Madeleine could claim a loose association with her mother, but now that she is in Florida, it seems that she is 100 % focused on establishing herself as "Mrs O'Neill" instead.



Moreover, if Madeleine is investing that much energy and time to help the children adjust to their new environment in Florida (which is the right thing to do for them BTW), why keep the pretense that they might still come back permanently to Sweden in two years or so when Leonor starts grade school ? I think it is time to trigger the provisions of the Act of Succession related to princes and princesses of Sweden having to be "raised in the realm", rather than trying to postpone what seems increasingly inevitable now.

 

[Somebody]

Margareta Thorgren to Expressen:
- The family is now focusing on establishing itself and creating ordinary life in the new country.
When Princess Madeleine is now living in the United States, she will not be able to participate in any official context during the fall, said Margareta Thorgren.
- The family moved this fall, which means that it is very new to the family. Three children to come into everyday life, new schools and a new environment, says Margareta Thorgren.
Madeleines och Chris beslut för familjen – kommer inte på Nobelfesten

And the gossip press is already attacking Madeleine because of the decision not to attend at the Nobel festivities.

Would it really hurt the children if their father would be taking care of them for a few days after they moved to the USA almost 4 months earlier?

Although I think that it is great that Madeleine is such a dedicated mother, it would be best if they were clear regarding their intentions. They presented it as if it's a temporary move for no apparent reason other than that they like Florida for a few years. I don't expect them to return to Sweden, and if she does intend to return, it's weird to be completely gone for a few years after years of limited presence to suddenly show up again. (It would be different if it had been announced that Madeleine would focus on child rearing for the duration of X years (for example until they are off to school - still a little uncommon but at least clear messaging)).


I am completely fine with Madeleine not being such an active member of the family. In the end, 3 couples should be more than sufficient for most royal duties and Madeleine and Christina can support when needed or appreciated. My main issue stems from the inconsistency in their messages. So, either they still have no clue themselves what they want to do with their lives or they choose to not inform the Swedish people. Neither one seems healthy.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Completely agree. You cannot switch being a Princess and what comes with it on and off like a light bulb, at least not without being critizised for it.
Madeleine promotes herself and her children on facebook but fails to give any substance to her position.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Madeleine has struck me very much as one of those who "wants to have her cake and eat it too". I've heard that Madeleine was always seen as the baby of the family being the youngest, and was, as a result, somewhat more spoilt than Victoria and Carl Philip. It does seem off wanting to be private in the US but as soon as she sets foot on Swedish soil, she wants to be a princess with all the privileges again (I still don't agree with her decision to give her children full royal titles given that Chris wanted to be a private citizen but that's a topic for another thread).

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

At the end of the day, it is the King who decides on titles. Yes, the Act of Succession stipulates the requirements of being in line of succession, but ultimately the King decides on titles.

Princess Madeline may have requested that the King strip her and her children of their titles and he simply won't do it. The King comes across stubborn and set in his ways. It appears that he has decided that during his reign, all his descendants will enjoy the HRH Prince/ss of Sweden, Duchy of xx. When Victoria is Queen, she can then decide on what happens regarding titles etc.

Madeline and her family physically moving to a foreign country illustrates to me she is using the Act of Succession to her advantage, thus forcing the King's hand in relation to her children.

I find it unfair when people state she "picks and chooses" the events she attends. It seems while she's in Sweden, she listens to what the King and Queen wants, i.e. the events she attends.

 

[Queen Claude]

Random Thoughts:
The opinion that when Madeleine does royal work that she does mostly the glamor / high profile events goes beyond this forum. Of course there are people who disagree or, if they agree, don't think that it's a big deal.

As it stands now all descendants of Carl XVI Gustaf are HRHs so I don't think that the King had to dictate or cajole Madeleine and Chris into giving their children titles, as one of his descendants they were HRHs and Prince or Princesses at birth. That is different from those who marry in, or at least that is my understanding. The King had to grant titles to Daniel and Sofia. He would have done likewise with Chris but since Chris was neither interested nor willing to meet certain requirements, e.g., become a Swedish citizen, he was not granted a title when he married Madeleine. The point I am getting at is that Madeleine and her children are HRHs, Princesses and Prince by default.

While there is no requirement to get a title other that being a descendant of Carl XVI Gustaf, there are requirements to maintaining the titles. Madeleine has met those requirements, however her children may lose their titles if they don't meet certain requirements. I don't see any reason why that process should be hasten, even if Madeleine knows now in 2018 that she has no intention of raising her children in Sweden. Having said that, I don't think that Madeleine is exempt from criticism, so while I now get why Madeleine's children received titles at birth, I also to understand why there are people who are critical of the situation. To me it boils down to Madeleine and Chris having to have thick skins when it comes to the scrutiny that they have and will continue to receive for the active and passive choices that they've made.

 

[Mbruno]

At the end of the day, it is the King who decides on titles. Yes, the Act of Succession stipulates the requirements of being in line of succession, but ultimately the King decides on titles.

Princess Madeline may have requested that the King strip her and her children of their titles and he simply won't do it. The King comes across stubborn and set in his ways. It appears that he has decided that during his reign, all his descendants will enjoy the HRH Prince/ss of Sweden, Duchy of xx. When Victoria is Queen, she can then decide on what happens regarding titles etc.

Madeline and her family physically moving to a foreign country illustrates to me she is using the Act of Succession to her advantage, thus forcing the King's hand in relation to her children.

I find it unfair when people state she "picks and chooses" the events she attends. It seems while she's in Sweden, she listens to what the King and Queen wants, i.e. the events she attends.

Well, she has already missed the opening of the Swedish parliament this year and will now miss the Nobel ceremony/ festivities. The former is actually a (semi-)constitutional event mandated by the Parliament Act whereas the latter is one of the top annual events in the Swedish royal calendar. Those are clear signals to me that she is increasingly distancing herself from public royal duties, which weakens the argument to keep her children's royal status.

 

[Somebody]

Well, she has already missed the opening of the Swedish parliament this year and will now miss the Nobel ceremony/ festivities. The former is actually a (semi-)constitutional event mandated by the Parliament Act whereas the latter is one of the top annual events in the Swedish royal calendar. Those are clear signals to me that she is increasingly distancing herself from public royal duties, which weakens the argument to keep her children's royal status.

The 'settling in' argument was far more convincing at the Opening of Parliament than for the Nobel Prizes. They might even come over to Sweden for Christmas holdidays.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

As it stands now all descendants of Carl XVI Gustaf are HRHs so I don't think that the King had to dictate or cajole Madeleine and Chris into giving their children titles, as one of his descendants they were HRHs and Prince or Princesses at birth. That is different from those who marry in, or at least that is my understanding. The King had to grant titles to Daniel and Sofia. He would have done likewise with Chris but since Chris was neither interested nor willing to meet certain requirements, e.g., become a Swedish citizen, he was not granted a title when he married Madeleine. The point I am getting at is that Madeleine and her children are HRHs, Princesses and Prince by default.

This was the understanding of the King and the Royal Court. The solicitor to the King clarified in 2013 that the child of an HRH inherits the HRH:
SDT1338_

Eftersom prinsessan fortfarande är Hennes Kungliga Höghet föds barnet ocksa som en kunglig höghet och blir nummer fem i tronföljdsordningen, berättar hovauditör Axel Calissendorff som hänvisar till successionsordningens första paragraf.

(Given that the princess continues to be Her Royal Highness, the child too will be born as a Royal Highness and be number five in the order of succession to the throne, solicitor to the king Axel Calissendorff states in reference to the first paragraph of the Act of Succession.)
​

Well, she has already missed the opening of the Swedish parliament this year and will now miss the Nobel ceremony/ festivities. The former is actually a (semi-)constitutional event mandated by the Parliament Act whereas the latter is one of the top annual events in the Swedish royal calendar. Those are clear signals to me that she is increasingly distancing herself from public royal duties, which weakens the argument to keep her children's royal status.

It may be relevant to mention that if royal status became contingent on working for the country (and currently it is not), then not only Leonore, Nicolas, and Adrienne, but also Alexander and Gabriel, would be at risk of being stripped of their royal status at some point. Although Prince Carl Philip is a part time working royal, it increasingly seems his children are unlikely to take up royal duties because the Constitutional Committee has proposed to restrict the number of future working royals.

 

[Somebody]

This was the understanding of the King and the Royal Court. The solicitor to the King clarified in 2013 that the child of an HRH inherits the HRH:
SDT1338_

Eftersom prinsessan fortfarande är Hennes Kungliga Höghet föds barnet ocksa som en kunglig höghet och blir nummer fem i tronföljdsordningen, berättar hovauditör Axel Calissendorff som hänvisar till successionsordningens första paragraf.

(Given that the princess continues to be Her Royal Highness, the child too will be born as a Royal Highness and be number five in the order of succession to the throne, solicitor to the king Axel Calissendorff states in reference to the first paragraph of the Act of Succession.)
​

It may be relevant to mention that if royal status became contingent on working for the country (and currently it is not), then not only Leonore, Nicolas, and Adrienne, but also Alexander and Gabriel, would be at risk of being stripped of their royal status at some point. Although Prince Carl Philip is a part time working royal, it increasingly seems his children are unlikely to take up royal duties because the Constitutional Committee has proposed to restrict the number of future working royals.

It's interesting how fuuture parents need to be stripped off their title to prevent their children from becoming HRHs themselves. So, that would most likely mean that both CPs' and Nadeleine's children will have to loose their titles just to prevent the king's great-grandchildren to also be HRH.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It's interesting how fuuture parents need to be stripped off their title to prevent their children from becoming HRHs themselves. So, that would most likely mean that both CPs' and Nadeleine's children will have to loose their titles just to prevent the king's great-grandchildren to also be HRH.

It would be the most traditional method. Princes Oscar, Lennart, Carl, Sigvard, and Carl Johan lost their HRHs when they married, thus before their non-HRH children were born or adopted. But in the next generation, Queen Victoria and her solicitors could come to a different understanding.

However, should the committee's proposals be enacted into law, being HRH would no longer be joined to public representation or funding, and the imperative to prevent the great-grandchildren from becoming HRH would be eliminated.

 

[LadyFinn]

Well, Margareta Thorgren isn't handling this very well. When she said to Svensk Damtidning and Expressen that Madeleine will not participate in any official context this year, both Svensk Damtidning and Expressen wrote that Madeleine will not attend at the Nobel festitivies.

But yesterday evening at 18.18 Aftonbladet published an article:

Unclear whether Princess Madeleine attends the Nobel Prize
In December, this year's Nobel Prize Laureates will be celebrated with pomp and circumstance. But if Princess Madeleine participates in the festivities, the court doesn't want to confirm.
- The Princess doesn't have the same opportunity to participate as before in terms of official involvement in Sweden, says Margareta Thorgren.
This summer, Madeleine moved with family to Miami. In connection with the move, the family announced that they will not participate equally in events in Sweden due to the long distance.
- The Princess doesn't participate in official contexts as she used before she moved to the United States, Thorgren says.
Princess Madeleine participated in the Nobel Prize ceremony last year, but jumped over the dinner. She was then pregnant and had severe back pain, which meant that she did not manage the multi-hour session. Chris O'Neill attended at the Nobel banquet.
This year it is not certain that the Princess Madeleine will attend at all.
- It's true that the princess does not participate as she did before when she lived in Sweden and in England, Thorgren says.
Is there any possibility that she will attend?
- I don't answer that question because we haven't yet published the calendar with who will attend the Nobel Prize festivities, Thorgren says.
Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill moved from London to Miami in August this year together with their children.
- They spend their time making their everyday life work. They have for example three very small children, Thorgren says.
Prinsessan Madeleine kan missa Nobelfesten _ Aftonbladet

 

[JR76]

Well, Margareta Thorgren isn't handling this very well. When she said to Svensk Damtidning and Expressen that Madeleine will not participate in any official context this year, both Svensk Damtidning and Expressen wrote that Madeleine will not attend at the Nobel festitivies.

But yesterday evening at 18.18 Aftonbladet published an article:

Unclear whether Princess Madeleine attends the Nobel Prize
In December, this year's Nobel Prize Laureates will be celebrated with pomp and circumstance. But if Princess Madeleine participates in the festivities, the court doesn't want to confirm.
- The Princess doesn't have the same opportunity to participate as before in terms of official involvement in Sweden, says Margareta Thorgren.
This summer, Madeleine moved with family to Miami. In connection with the move, the family announced that they will not participate equally in events in Sweden due to the long distance.
- The Princess doesn't participate in official contexts as she used before she moved to the United States, Thorgren says.
Princess Madeleine participated in the Nobel Prize ceremony last year, but jumped over the dinner. She was then pregnant and had severe back pain, which meant that she did not manage the multi-hour session. Chris O'Neill attended at the Nobel banquet.
This year it is not certain that the Princess Madeleine will attend at all.
- It's true that the princess does not participate as she did before when she lived in Sweden and in England, Thorgren says.
Is there any possibility that she will attend?
- I don't answer that question because we haven't yet published the calendar with who will attend the Nobel Prize festivities, Thorgren says.
Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill moved from London to Miami in August this year together with their children.
- They spend their time making their everyday life work. They have for example three very small children, Thorgren says.
Prinsessan Madeleine kan missa Nobelfesten _ Aftonbladet

I noticed those major inconsistencies as well.
The Press Department has evolved tremendously during the time Margareta has been at it's head, but this reminds me of the mess it was a few years ago. From what I've heard Margareta's success depends on her own personal skills as a communicator, her ability to cooperate with her bosses and the head boss himself realising, after the book debacle & the following controversy surrounding his father-in-law's Nazi involvement, that times had changed and he needed to listen to the professionals. The King has been notoriously bad at following advice through the years with only his wife, sister & uncle being able to get him to listen.
Now I feel that we have a new situation where one of the bosses won't listen and take the advice of the Press Department causing the mixed messages we got yesterday.
My personal opinion is that the media is once again creating a scandal out of nothing. They already know that Madeleine and Chris won't attend official functions in Sweden regularly yet they hum to the same repetitive tune every year.
That said Madeleine and the Royal family knew that this was coming so why not just lay down a few groundlines about how and when we can expect to see her doing work in Sweden. The first statement was a short, consise and clear message in that vein so I don't get why the sudden change only hours later. If I were Margareta I'd be having one big drink after I kicked off my shoes in front of the TV Friday evening.

 

[Somebody]

Could it be that the initial idea was that Madeleine would not attend but that they are reconsidering because of the backlash?

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Does Madeleine’s life abroad coupled with her children have any titles;

1) add any additional costs to the Swedish taxpayer?

2) annoy anyone in Sweden other than tabloids and royal watchers?

 

[Somebody]

Does Madeleine’s life abroad coupled with her children have any titles;

1) add any additional costs to the Swedish taxpayer?

2) annoy anyone in Sweden other than tabloids and royal watchers?

Regarding 1: I am quite sure there are some additional costs involved related to the children being part of the royal family. The government had to meet to announce the names, no Te Deum services would have been held for Leonore, Nicholas and Adrienne O'Neill. Baptism services would have been smaller etc. And their might be other perks related to their royal status. I am for example not sure about security arrangements. I don't know where that money is coming from but the time and effort going into these events would at least partly have been spend on other matters had they been ordinary citizens.

Regarding 2: I assume the Swedish republicans are annoyed by it (or rejoice because they can use it as a stick )

 

[JR76]

Does Madeleine’s life abroad coupled with her children have any titles;

1) add any additional costs to the Swedish taxpayer?

2) annoy anyone in Sweden other than tabloids and royal watchers?

1. No.
2. No.

 

[Lee-Z]

1. No.
2. No.

Well....okay then...

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Regarding 1: I am quite sure there are some additional costs involved related to the children being part of the royal family. The government had to meet to announce the names, no Te Deum services would have been held for Leonore, Nicholas and Adrienne O'Neill. Baptism services would have been smaller etc. And their might be other perks related to their royal status. I am for example not sure about security arrangements. I don't know where that money is coming from but the time and effort going into these events would at least partly have been spend on other matters had they been ordinary citizens.

I don't see this current King wanting his grandchildren to be just "ordinary" citizens.

 

[M. Payton]

And this current king has no choice in regards to his grandchildren for Maddie is the mother and Chris is the father and they made the choice to live in another country........titles mean absolutely nothing unless there is something behind them like work....just a thought, maybe Chris does not like the restrictions of what the king wants for his children, and I bet there is lots of feelings in Maddie deep down about how her father treated her during her first engagement when it ended.....off she ran to another country.....and still doing it!

 

[Mbruno]

Regarding 1: I am quite sure there are some additional costs involved related to the children being part of the royal family. The government had to meet to announce the names, no Te Deum services would have been held for Leonore, Nicholas and Adrienne O'Neill. Baptism services would have been smaller etc. And their might be other perks related to their royal status. I am for example not sure about security arrangements. I don't know where that money is coming from but the time and effort going into these events would at least partly have been spend on other matters had they been ordinary citizens.

Regarding 2: I assume the Swedish republicans are annoyed by it (or rejoice because they can use it as a stick )

The Royal Court's state grant is divided between the King's household, the Queen's household, CP Victoria's household, and the Royal Mews. There is also a separate grant for maintenance of the royal palaces and residences.


According to forum on the Swedish royal family's finances on TRF, whenever CP and Madeleine get any kind of public funding, that is done in CP's case via the King's household and, in Madeleine's case, via the Queen's household. It is unclear, however, how often they are funded and in what circumstances.

 

[Countessmeout]

Regarding 1: I am quite sure there are some additional costs involved related to the children being part of the royal family. The government had to meet to announce the names, no Te Deum services would have been held for Leonore, Nicholas and Adrienne O'Neill. Baptism services would have been smaller etc. And their might be other perks related to their royal status. I am for example not sure about security arrangements. I don't know where that money is coming from but the time and effort going into these events would at least partly have been spend on other matters had they been ordinary citizens.

Regarding 2: I assume the Swedish republicans are annoyed by it (or rejoice because they can use it as a stick )

Whether they had a title or not, the kids were grandkids of the King. They would have still had a Te deum and royal baptism. Announcing their names is not a cost. It wasn't an event or something, simply a meeting.

The Swedush people only pay for two royals, well and their spouses. The king and his heir. The money for Madeleine and Cp come from their dad. Just like the yorks in the UK cost no one any money save their father and yet people still complain.

The titles are just that, titles. They come with nothing, no privilege, position, money or anything. Simple tradition.

 

[Somebody]

Whether they had a title or not, the kids were grandkids of the King. They would have still had a Te deum and royal baptism. Announcing their names is not a cost. It wasn't an event or something, simply a meeting.

The Swedush people only pay for two royals, well and their spouses. The king and his heir. The money for Madeleine and Cp come from their dad. Just like the yorks in the UK cost no one any money save their father and yet people still complain.

The titles are just that, titles. They come with nothing, no privilege, position, money or anything. Simple tradition.

Did all the king's non-titled nieces and nephews get a Te Deum and royal baptism? Imo these things are held for royal family members not for other family members. There is no reason to hold it if someone is not a member of the royal family.

Meeting cost money in that the people attending receive a salary for being there. It's, however, hard to quantify how they would have used their time differently.


Many people wish to differ on Eugenie not costing additional money; her wedding surely cost extra money because she was a royal highness. And for many years they had security paid by the state. While I think that's totally fine, the position that no additional money was involved seems hard to defend.

Finally, traditionally titles are hereditary in male-line, so Chris refusing a title and his children still being born as royal highnesses goes against tradition. Traditionally, they would have been miss/mister O'Neill.

 

[JR76]

Official policy says that Madeleine and Carl-Philip gets reimbursed for costs incurred when they perform royal duties. As members of the Royal House they're entitled to free housing and free use of the cars in the Royal garage.
We don't know if they get additional funding from the private part of the appanage since the public has no knowledge of how that money is being used. That could change since the funding of the Royal family is one of the main reasons for the proposed inquiry by the Constitutional assembly.
In addition to this Carl Philip works, Madeleine is married to a businessman and they both have a private fortune. Besides Madeleine's work for the Childhood foundation, for which I don't know if she gets payed, they could both get the opportunity to hold positions on the boards of the numerous royal foundations for which I'm certain they'd get some kind of fee. These foundations are said to be worth at least a billion SEK. I can't remember any specifics, but now that Princess Christina who were on the board of several of these foundations has stepped down from them there are possible openings for the two to take over after her.
Neither Carl-Philip or Madeleine will ever go hungry even if they would get no funding at all.

 

[LadyFinn]

Official policy says that Madeleine and Carl-Philip gets reimbursed for costs incurred when they perform royal duties. As members of the Royal House they're entitled to free housing and free use of the cars in the Royal garage.
We don't know if they get additional funding from the private part of the appanage since the public has no knowledge of how that money is being used. That could change since the funding of the Royal family is one of the main reasons for the proposed inquiry by the Constitutional assembly.
In addition to this Carl Philip works, Madeleine is married to a businessman and they both have a private fortune. Besides Madeleine's work for the Childhood foundation, for which I don't know if she gets payed, they could both get the opportunity to hold positions on the boards of the numerous royal foundations for which I'm certain they'd get some kind of fee. These foundations are said to be worth at least a billion SEK. I can't remember any specifics, but now that Princess Christina who were on the board of several of these foundations has stepped down from them there are possible openings for the two to take over after her.
Neither Carl-Philip or Madeleine will ever go hungry even if they would get no funding at all.

Carl Philip and Madeleine are as the children of the king entitled to free housing (at the properties which are at the disposal of the Monarch) and free use of the cars in the Royal garage. But Carl Philip and Sofia live in Villa Solbacken, which is owned by Carl Philip and he paid the renovation of the house and pays the costs of housing while he and his family live there.

 

[Countessmeout]

Did all the king's non-titled nieces and nephews get a Te Deum and royal baptism? Imo these things are held for royal family members not for other family members. There is no reason to hold it if someone is not a member of the royal family.

Meeting cost money in that the people attending receive a salary for being there. It's, however, hard to quantify how they would have used their time differently.


Many people wish to differ on Eugenie not costing additional money; her wedding surely cost extra money because she was a royal highness. And for many years they had security paid by the state. While I think that's totally fine, the position that no additional money was involved seems hard to defend.

Finally, traditionally titles are hereditary in male-line, so Chris refusing a title and his children still being born as royal highnesses goes against tradition. Traditionally, they would have been miss/mister O'Neill.

The Kings nieces and nephews were not grandchildren of the reigning monarch. Nor in those times were they remotely eligible to inherit the throne. Comparing their birth to those if Madeleine is faulty at best.

The only cost to the public for Eugenie wedding was security. The rest was covered by the royals. And because of the royals attending her wedding, there woukd be security. Whether she had a title or not.

Well I guess some of us are happy that only sperm matters and that women should be treated equally. Sad to say even if charlotte is ahead of Louis in succession, her children will be treated like Lesser then his, because they weren't produced by royal sperm. Added fortunately has Adapted tradition. Not thrown it away all together. In bestowing titles on all grandchildren. Not just male. It's not a hereditary title. It comes with no money or position. It dies with them. No reason to strip them of a titles which are just that, simple titles

 

[Biri]

Sad to say even if charlotte is ahead of Louis in succession, her children will be treated like Lesser then his, because they weren't produced by royal sperm.

Well...too early to speculate by whose sperm Charlotte's eventual children will be begotten

She may marry Prince Alexander of Sweden or Prince Henrik of Denmark

As for Madeleine and Chris: if they planned to stay in the US permanently and their children will be educated there, Riksdag may demand to strip them from royal titles and exclude from the line of succession.
If such a project attain a majority, the King will not have an alternative and will have to sign it.

 

[MARG]

I don't see this current King wanting his grandchildren to be just "ordinary" citizens.

I feel it was more than that. When his father died Carl Gustaf he became the heir at four years of age. Since changing the laws of primogeniture was unthinkable back then the House of Bernadotte came dangerously close to dying out.

When he married and had children he was leaving nothing to chance and neither were the Government who had changed both the Rules of Succession and role of King of Sweden. But I think the King was just plain taking no chances.

So HRH Princess Madeleine was born, grew up and married, all the while a Swede who meant to live and grow up in Sweden. Chris did not and, I can't help but feel that Princess Madeleine loved the Princess Dresses, the Princess Jewellery and the glorious Princess grandeur of her life. But I don't think she was sorry to marry and move to London because 'Chris couldn't work from Stockholm'. But London without being a proper Princess didn't make her happy.

Now we find that Chris can work perfectly well from Miami (of all places) and because of the distance Madeleine and Chris would be unable to carry out any duties at all. Not even the Nobels. However, we have been told that Madeleine would not be attending the Nobels and yet she popped up looking pretty as a princess in her princess dress and her princess tiara. The Royal House is hedging their bets because IMHO she's just as likely as not to turn up.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Finally, traditionally titles are hereditary in male-line, so Chris refusing a title and his children still being born as royal highnesses goes against tradition. Traditionally, they would have been miss/mister O'Neill.

It went against tradition when Chris O'Neill, a spouse of a royal who retained her rights to the throne, whose marriage was approved by the King and the Government, was not granted Swedish citizenship and was allowed to refuse a royal title and membership of the Royal House.

But it would have gone further against tradition if "princes and princesses of the Royal House" (the term in the constitution for descendants in succession to the throne) had been denied royal status due to a situation (refusal of a title by a parent) that had never happened until that point.

As regards the tradition of inheriting solely through men, improvements in the position of women had been initiated decades before the birth of Princess Madeleine's children.

The Kings nieces and nephews were not grandchildren of the reigning monarch. Nor in those times were they remotely eligible to inherit the throne. Comparing their birth to those if Madeleine is faulty at best.

There is a possibility that the original poster meant a hypothetical situation where the Government did not approve Princess Madeleine's marriage. She and her children would be ineligible to inherit the throne as a result.

Otherwise, because no one has ever been denied a royal title without simultaneously denying them a place in the order of succession, it is unknown what privileges would be given or denied in the hypothetical event.

It's not a hereditary title.

The ducal titles are not hereditary, but the statement given by the King's solicitor in 2013 confirmed the current view was that the child of an HRH is automatically born as an HRH.

SDT1338_

Eftersom prinsessan fortfarande är Hennes Kungliga Höghet föds barnet ocksa som en kunglig höghet och blir nummer fem i tronföljdsordningen, berättar hovauditör Axel Calissendorff som hänvisar till successionsordningens första paragraf.

(Given that the princess continues to be Her Royal Highness, the child too will be born as a Royal Highness and be number five in the order of succession to the throne, solicitor to the king Axel Calissendorff states in reference to the first paragraph of the Act of Succession.)
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