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  #161  
Old 08-27-2015, 11:35 AM
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And for me is mystery why the children of Madeleine take the HRH titles. Something like that don't happen with the King's sisters.
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  #162  
Old 08-27-2015, 11:45 AM
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And for me is mystery why the children of Madeleine take the HRH titles. Something like that don't happen with the King's sisters.
The King's sisters never had succession rights like Madeleine. And except for Birgitta who was the only of them to marry a partner from a former reigning Family the lost their HRH upon marriage nand are styled as Princess Chrstina, Mrs. Magnusson for example.
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  #163  
Old 08-27-2015, 12:42 PM
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Thanks, i didn't realize children could be in the succession without an hrh

Isnīt that even with Sverre-Magnus (at least No 3 in line of the Norway succession)?
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  #164  
Old 08-27-2015, 12:48 PM
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Whilst half of me agrees with Pranter that it won't matter if Leonore and Nicolas live in London because of their place in the succession, I think the main issue here is that they are HRHs and also have Swedish Duchies as well as "just" the title of Prince/ss. Because of that the other half of me thinks that the fact that they live in London and still have royal titles and styles is a bit off, though I understand they are living there because of Chris's job.

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Isnīt that even with Sverre-Magnus (at least No 3 in line of the Norway succession)?
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Sverre Magnus is an HH (Highness) instead of an HRH. He is in the line of succession but he isn't a member of the Norwegian Royal House. Princess Martha Louise is also "just" a HH like Sverre Magnus and the current Norwegian Royal House consists of Harald, Sonja, Mette-Marit, Haakon and Ingrid Alexandra.
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  #165  
Old 08-27-2015, 10:38 PM
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The thing is, the Bernadotte grandchildren are not equal. Leonore and Nicolas will always be princess and prince. Estelle will go from princess, to crown princess, to queen.
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  #166  
Old 08-28-2015, 06:48 AM
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Probably because until any eventual children of CP & Sofia are born they are important as spares. My guess is that King CG is mainly driven by an ambition to avoid the situation he himself was raised in with only two people in the succession, an old man and a schoolboy, with all the repercussions it had on the private lives of the whole royal family.
This. My guess is that if/when Carl Philip and Sofia have children, Madeleine will stay in England with her kids, effectively taking them out of the succession. I strongly believe that they got their titles just because they are the current spares, and that it was the king who wanted it, not Madeleine.
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  #167  
Old 08-28-2015, 06:52 AM
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This. My guess is that if/when Carl Philip and Sofia have children, Madeleine will stay in England with her kids, effectively taking them out of the succession. I strongly believe that they got their titles just because they are the current spares, and that it was the king who wanted it, not Madeleine.

I agree. There are rumours about how Madeleine wanted renounce to her HRH status at the time of the wedding but that her father persuaded her not to.


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  #168  
Old 08-28-2015, 09:33 AM
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There have been comments made here about it mattering, you'll have to read previous pages.


LaRae

Thank you. As I reas from other posters, I think that at the time of their wedding and when Leonore was born, she was the "spare", so the title was somthing that seemd logical. And maybe both Madeleine and Chris were thinking about USA like a temporary place for living. After few months, the engagements of CP and Sofia was announced, and that IMO changed everthing... until june 2014 noone could predict that CP would soon settle down. Then Maddel got pregnant again, and what could they do? Nicolas has as much as his sister the right to have titles, or that would have been considered unfair. The birth pretty much was expected to coincide with Madde's bother wedding, so as a result he was born in Sweden. At least, this is my speculation on the matter.
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  #169  
Old 08-29-2015, 03:52 AM
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Then again, the way The King seems to interpret the absolute primogeniture of the succession, all his children and their descendants have an equal right of inheritance to the throne given they fulfil the different conditions set up by the Law of succession. In my opinion there eventually has to be some kind of limitation to who is in the Order of succession since it wouldn't benefit, and be totally unnecessary, the monarchy with to long a list.
Already, in a book about the future of the monarchy, in 1968 there was the calculation that had females and their descendants been in the Order of succession it would have included more than 40 individuals which was seen as much to many.


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  #170  
Old 08-29-2015, 05:35 AM
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^^^^^^ yes, but as you mentioned in a previous post K.C-G knows what it's like to have the line of succession thinned out to just two people and maybe this is also a reaction to that...
I expect his children won't have a load of children themselves (not like 10 or something), so in K.C-G's reign it will just give the RF a bit more "body" to be a bit bigger than a couple of decades ago
When P.Victoria is queen she can decide to do it differently if she wants
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  #171  
Old 08-29-2015, 08:58 AM
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I don't think that it hurts to have a long succession list like the British do. Everbody knows that those further down the line have no chance to ever get near the throne, but that is ok, it doesn't matter because the succession is not linked with styles, titles or dotations. For those further down the list it just means that they are related to the BRF.

Imo it would have been better to style Madeleine's children and the future children of CP as HH, but in modern life even that difference is rather ornamental. Actually I believe that it is good for Estelle to have a kind of support team in her own generations. Even if the cousins are not needed to save the throne, it will be good for Estelle to have family members of her own generation to trust, to rely on, to share some of the burden, and to make up numbers for the Nobels and other important events. Depending on how many cousins will still be born, the family can decide whether Leonor and Nicolas are needed for this 'support team' or not. They have time till Leonor is old enough to go to school, before they have to decide if they will move back to Sweden or not.


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  #172  
Old 08-29-2015, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
I don't think that it hurts to have a long succession list like the British do. Everbody knows that those further down the line have no chance to ever get near the throne, but that is ok, it doesn't matter because the succession is not linked with styles, titles or dotations. For those further down the list it just means that they are related to the BRF.

Imo it would have been better to style Madeleine's children and the future children of CP as HH, but in modern life even that difference is rather ornamental. Actually I believe that it is good for Estelle to have a kind of support team in her own generations. Even if the cousins are not needed to save the throne, it will be good for Estelle to have family members of her own generation to trust, to rely on, to share some of the burden, and to make up numbers for the Nobels and other important events. Depending on how many cousins will still be born, the family can decide whether Leonor and Paul are needed for this 'support team' or not. They have time till Leonor is old enough to go to school, before they have to decide if they will move back to Sweden or not.
I agree with you! Just a small note: Madeleine's son is called Nicolas: Paul si his second name
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  #173  
Old 08-29-2015, 09:58 AM
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I agree with you! Just a small note: Madeleine's son is called Nicolas: Paul si his second name
Oh, I was just testing if someone would notice. .......sorry.
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  #174  
Old 08-29-2015, 02:20 PM
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I sincerely hope that Madeleine and Chris have the life they both want for themselves and their children. If moving the UK is part of it, so be it. If king still want them to have titles, so be it. The title doesn't mean that Madeleine will honor it in her own mind or that it will bother Chris. They have made their wants clear to family. They will attend the things that they want, if they want, and if people don't like, oh well. Chris is not paid by royal money and they really can't tell him what to do. He doesn't have to answer to anyone or tell what and when he will attend a function. If you see him, he is there. Period. King knew this prior to their marriage and did not have a problem. I give Madeleine a lot of credit by not letting others opinion of what she and Chris should be doing bother her. I can also see, when Sofia has children or Victoria another, Madeleine and Chris having a wonderful life together without the public on their backs and giving their opinion on anything in their lives. Madeleine knows exactly what she wants, I hope she gets it.
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  #175  
Old 08-29-2015, 02:35 PM
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I sincerely hope that Madeleine and Chris have the life they both want for themselves and their children. If moving the UK is part of it, so be it. If king still want them to have titles, so be it. The title doesn't mean that Madeleine will honor it in her own mind or that it will bother Chris. They have made their wants clear to family. They will attend the things that they want, if they want, and if people don't like, oh well. Chris is not paid by royal money and they really can't tell him what to do. He doesn't have to answer to anyone or tell what and when he will attend a function. If you see him, he is there. Period. King knew this prior to their marriage and did not have a problem. I give Madeleine a lot of credit by not letting others opinion of what she and Chris should be doing bother her. I can also see, when Sofia has children or Victoria another, Madeleine and Chris having a wonderful life together without the public on their backs and giving their opinion on anything in their lives. Madeleine knows exactly what she wants, I hope she gets it.
I agree with you Winnie. But for the last you say "Madeleine knows exactly what she wants" i don't know i'm not so sure.
Madeleine is between the task that has the title and her husband. He tries as much as you balance the hope to succeed ..
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  #176  
Old 08-30-2015, 03:06 PM
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Yes, EYA, you are really correct. No one knows exactly what is in the mind of Madeleine. I just always had the feeling that she is not the little Barbie Doll spoiled air head that some people think. I get the solid impression that she has a strong will who behind the scenes is not being walked on and told what to do. I always thought that Victoria was the mild obedient child, CP the fun loving and adventurous boy who will always remain quasi young and Madeleine strong willed and determined. JMHO but so far have not been proven wrong that I know of.
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  #177  
Old 08-30-2015, 03:50 PM
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Yes, EYA, you are really correct. No one knows exactly what is in the mind of Madeleine. I just always had the feeling that she is not the little Barbie Doll spoiled air head that some people think. I get the solid impression that she has a strong will who behind the scenes is not being walked on and told what to do. I always thought that Victoria was the mild obedient child, CP the fun loving and adventurous boy who will always remain quasi young and Madeleine strong willed and determined. JMHO but so far have not been proven wrong that I know of.
If Victoria were not "strong willed and determined". she would not have married Daniel when her father and the entire Royal Court were initially against it. Both Victoria and CP had to fight hard for their respective marriages to be accepted. With Madeleine on the other hand, I don't think the king ever raised any objection at all.
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  #178  
Old 08-30-2015, 04:24 PM
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If Victoria were not "strong willed and determined". she would not have married Daniel when her father and the entire Royal Court were initially against it. Both Victoria and CP had to fight hard for their respective marriages to be accepted. With Madeleine on the other hand, I don't think the king ever raised any objection at all.
I am not so sure. Madeleine had to ditch (or decided to ditch) Jonas after his affair became public (despite of Madeleine knowing about it, she already had forgiven Jonas). Obviously there was pressure from the media and the royal house and she gave or had to give in. Then she ran off to New York and met Chris.

I don't think Victoria is too strong willed and determined, she strikes me as quite emotional and eager to please (not necessarily a bad thing) but it made her suffer eg with an eating disorder, she couldnt cope with pressure (media and at home, there has been speculation about CG favouring CP as CP all along) for a long time. It took her seven years to have her parents accept Daniel and at the engagement CG still looked as if he wasnt happy about this relationship. Other royals didnt take as long to get their controversial partners accepted (and Daniel wasnt even controversial).

I dont think CP had to fight hard at all for Sofia, CG seemed very happy with his son's choice from the beginning and Sofia was able to get into the inner family circle much earlier that eg Daniel (private holidays with the Kings in France long before the engagement).
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  #179  
Old 08-30-2015, 04:36 PM
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The swedish royal experts and reporters have always said that Madeleine is very strong willed and does always like she wants. But with Jonas she had to bend to the king's will.
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  #180  
Old 08-30-2015, 04:53 PM
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Oh, I was just testing if someone would notice. .......sorry.
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