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  #21  
Old 05-28-2015, 08:46 AM
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Svensk Damtidning has an article about Chris at their latest issue, the paper version.
SD writes that Madeleine had longed for the move to Stockholm because she wanted to be closer to her family. But it hasn't been as easy for Chris. The rumours tell that Chris thinks that Stockholm is a too small town. For a man raised in Switzerland and London and who has lived the most of his adult life in New York small Östermalm is perhaps not so impressive. It is rumoured that he is depressed. And it is said that Chris thinks that the royal family is a little too fine and mighty for his taste. Nice, yes, but perhaps not similar than he has been used to as a businessman in NY. During the last times yet one rumour came to Svensk Damtidning's office. Chris is missing. Not even a person close to the court has seen him at The Royal Mews and it is gossipped that he is on a secret trip abroad in private commitments. A trip which is said to have a quick interruption at Carl Philip's and Sofia's banns because the king demanded it, but now the trip has continued again.
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2015, 08:59 AM
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Well, thats a nice built up telltale, isn't it? I think the only bit that might be true is that part of the reason why Chris and Madeleine will soon move to London is because Chris is a bit unconfortbale and maybe it is difficult for him to get used to "royal like" and to Sweden. But, I think that is only a part of the motive...
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2015, 09:38 AM
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I don't think that the plan was to move to London from the beginning. I believe that Madde wanted to give it a try in Sweden and Chris followed suit, but the reality was beyond what Chris could tolerate. Otherwise they would have registered in the UK from the beginning. Its not difficult to find space to live, especially with family around. No, I think that Madde was homesick after NY with a small child and wanted her family around. It didn't work out and now they are finally moving to the UK. Now its not Chris who will commute but Madde. Chris might be happier now but I think it will be hard on Madde, London and Stockholm are not far apart compared to NY still its difficult to travel with two small children. Her mother and sister are not around the corner, the cousins don't grow up together. And she faces the old question: is Madde a Princess or Mrs O'Neill, same thing as when living in NY. And there are lots of paparazzi in London....

At least now we can assume that Chris will not participate unless he shows up.
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  #24  
Old 05-28-2015, 03:35 PM
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Madie and Chris are obviously going through a difficult period... Chris probably did not appreciate the last months in Sweden as an enjoyable experience, bearing in mind the permanent investigations and criticism in the Swedish press. He must feel more comfortable in a more international environment, where he can use his own language.
I really hope this move will bring them back more serenity, otherwise the couple may get into difficulties. It will probably be easier for him to escape "royal commitments" in London. Up to Madie to commute.
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  #25  
Old 05-28-2015, 05:20 PM
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http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f278/princess-madeleine-and-family-moving-to-lon

I disagree with people who assume they have been forced into moving to London. Didn't Madeleine or Chris (can't remember which) actually say they were looking at London months ago? The delay is probably down to them wanting to have their second baby in Sweden, if your going to move to Europe just before your second baby is born why not move home if that is where you want the birth to happen before moving on. Now the birth is close it makes sense for Chris to be looking for a house/home for the family so it can all be ready for once the baby is born, better to do it now than when there are 2 small children to look after.
Of course it would not at all surprise me if their recent time in Sweden has strengthened the couple' desire to stay away from living full time in Sweden, the media pressure on them is simply too great though I am sure the media will say they are running away or don't care about Sweden, making no mention of the fact the media themselves have created this situation in the first place.

I have always said London would be the perfect choice, a big city like the couple are use to in NY probably with plenty of friends around, plenty of business links for Chris and yet only 2 and bit hours away from Sweden with plenty of regular flights to allow them to visit Sweden and Maddie's family.
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  #26  
Old 05-28-2015, 05:38 PM
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Maybe the best thing would be for Madeleine to get a job working in London, it would look like she is at least trying to earn her own living and give her a good reason not to be seen doing official duties all the time. She could still attend important high profile royal events in Sweden. Part of the problem I think is that Chris and Maddie are SO different in their role in the RF.
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  #27  
Old 05-28-2015, 05:48 PM
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At least they live in Europe. If Madde is in London and she has engagments in Sweden she can hop into the plane and is there in 2 hours. Well Chris is a private man, I respect that and I can understand why he would prefer to work in London than in Stockholm.
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  #28  
Old 05-28-2015, 05:56 PM
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I think they are clearly hoping if they life in London they will be able to better separate official royal Princess Madeleine couple from private Mr & Mrs O'Neil couple.
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  #29  
Old 05-28-2015, 06:02 PM
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The thing is... If he wanted to have a more private life and they never intended to live in Sweden... In my opinion, they should have refused titles for their children.

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  #30  
Old 05-28-2015, 06:05 PM
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I've always wondered if Chris wanted to but Maddie or the King pushed for it
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  #31  
Old 05-28-2015, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I don't think that the plan was to move to London from the beginning. I believe that Madde wanted to give it a try in Sweden and Chris followed suit, but the reality was beyond what Chris could tolerate. Otherwise they would have registered in the UK from the beginning. Its not difficult to find space to live, especially with family around. No, I think that Madde was homesick after NY with a small child and wanted her family around. It didn't work out and now they are finally moving to the UK. Now its not Chris who will commute but Madde. Chris might be happier now but I think it will be hard on Madde, London and Stockholm are not far apart compared to NY still its difficult to travel with two small children. Her mother and sister are not around the corner, the cousins don't grow up together. And she faces the old question: is Madde a Princess or Mrs O'Neill, same thing as when living in NY. And there are lots of paparazzi in London....

At least now we can assume that Chris will not participate unless he shows up.

Anyway according to Swedish law, Leonore and her future brother/sister will still have to be "raised in Sweden" if Madeleine wants them to remain in the line of succession. If CP has children of his own in the future, removing Madeleine's children from the succession won't be a big deal, but, still, I don't know how Madeleine feels about denying her kids one of their birth rights to accomodate Chris' wishes.
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  #32  
Old 05-28-2015, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
The thing is... If he wanted to have a more private life and they never intended to live in Sweden... In my opinion, they should have refused titles for their children.

Thoughts?


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I was surprised about the HRH + Dukedom for Leonore tbh. Either they should have made her a Countess like in the Netherlands or let her be a Miss like in Norway and only the children of the direct heir are allowed to carry the HRH and a Dukedom. Taking it back would be awkward now. So yes they shouldn't have done that with the whole title imo.
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  #33  
Old 05-28-2015, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis View Post
I was surprised about the HRH + Dukedom for Leonore tbh. Either they should have made her a Countess like in the Netherlands or let her be a Miss like in Norway and only the children of the direct heir are allowed to carry the HRH and a Dukedom. Taking it back would be awkward now. So yes they shouldn't have done that with the whole title imo.
As far as I understand, under the Instrument of Government of 1975, the King of Sweden has lost the power to create new counts or barons, which are the ordinary titles of hereditary nobility in Sweden.

"Duke" in Sweden is a personal (i.e non-hereditary) title that is reserved to "princes of the Royal House", which I interpret to mean "any legitimate descendant of the King who is not removed from the line of succession". In fact, see Rangkrona – Wikipedia, there is no difference in Swedish heraldy between a duke's crown and a prince's crown (other than the Crown Prince's crown, which is slightly different).

Of course, at some point, it will be necessary to limit who is a "prince of the Royal House", or otherwise after two generations or so, there will be dozens of princes/princesses of Sweden around. Unlike in the Netherlands though, there is no law regulating who can be given an HRH style and/or a territorial dukedom based on proximity of blood to the sovereign or the heir apparent.
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  #34  
Old 05-28-2015, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Anyway according to Swedish law, Leonore and her future brother/sister will still have to be "raised in Sweden" if Madeleine wants them to remain in the line of succession. If CP has children of his own in the future, removing Madeleine's children from the succession won't be a big deal, but, still, I don't know how Madeleine feels about denying her kids one of their birth rights to accomodate Chris' wishes.
I think perhaps these two did not think everything through thoroughly and objectively before they got married. Or perhaps Chris did raise all these legitimate concerns and Madeleine dismissed them with starry-eyed lovey-doveyness and assurances that love would conquer all. And Chris fell for it. Even the smartest men can be beguiled by a pretty woman who knows how to use her feminine wiles to get what she wants. Perhaps Madeleine assumed that Chris would change his tune, because she is a Princess, after all, and assumed her Princessy interests and wants would just automatically prevail...which leads me to the last sentence of the quoted post.

If it is indeed the case that Madeleine considers her children are being denied one of their birth rights to accommodate Chris' "wishes", then their relationship could indeed be in deep trouble. They are his children, too, and he may not have much regard for royal birth rights of this sort and I don't think Chris wanting to live in London - or anywhere else outside Sweden - is just a "wish"; I think it is more a "need", and non-negotiable. I suspect Chris considers his independence and the ability to control his own life to be very important to him, and living in Sweden, where he doesn't want to live anyway, would put him under impossible pressure to sacrifice his interests to those of his wife's family. I don't think that's going to happen, and I don't think it's fair of Madeleine to expect him to do that. If that means divorce is inevitable, so be it.
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  #35  
Old 05-28-2015, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I think perhaps these two did not think everything through thoroughly and objectively before they got married. Or perhaps Chris did raise all these legitimate concerns and Madeleine dismissed them with starry-eyed lovey-doveyness and assurances that love would conquer all. And Chris fell for it. Even the smartest men can be beguiled by a pretty woman who knows how to use her feminine wiles to get what she wants. Perhaps Madeleine assumed that Chris would change his tune, because she is a Princess, after all, and assumed her Princessy interests and wants would just automatically prevail...which leads me to the last sentence of the quoted post.

If it is indeed the case that Madeleine considers her children are being denied one of their birth rights to accommodate Chris' "wishes", then their relationship could indeed be in deep trouble. They are his children, too, and he may not have much regard for royal birth rights of this sort and I don't think Chris wanting to live in London - or anywhere else outside Sweden - is just a "wish"; I think it is more a "need", and non-negotiable. I suspect Chris considers his independence and the ability to control his own life to be very important to him, and living in Sweden, where he doesn't want to live anyway, would put him under impossible pressure to sacrifice his interests to those of his wife's family. I don't think that's going to happen, and I don't think it's fair of Madeleine to expect him to do that. If that means divorce is inevitable, so be it.
To be frank, as I said, I don't know if her children's royal status (or lack thereof) is an issue for Madeleine or not, but, even if it is not, there might still be other dividing issues between Chris and his wife regarding their moving to London. For example, how does Madeleine herself feel about giving up her "princess life" to settle for a middle-class life as Mrs O'Neill? Apparently, she got upset very quickly in New York. It won't necessarily be different in London even if she is closer to Sweden and can show up at a greater number of "royal events" back home.

I don't want to speculate, but it should be clear to any observer that Chris is not comfortable with the idea of being part of a "royal family" and the (public) obligations that come with it.
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  #36  
Old 05-28-2015, 07:56 PM
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Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill have my full support (although they doesn't need it).

They were living in the US. People and the press criticized them.

They went to live in Sweden. People and the press kept on criticizing them.

Let they move to London and be happy. People and the press will criticizing them anyway. It's a no win situation.

The only potential problem I see with they moving to London will be regarding their children's succession rights. That's something they'll have to think about in a few years (although I think Chris couldn't care less about his children being able or not to inherit the Swedish Throne).
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  #37  
Old 05-28-2015, 08:19 PM
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I doubt Maddie is concerned at all about succession rights for her kids...afterall PCP has been with Sophia for 6 years now, and she probably knew they were headed to the altar, well before she married Chris...her children will come after PCP's and no reason to assume he won't have any. If she were concerned about succession rights she wouldn't of married an American who is more likely to give allegiance to his faith before giving it to a Protestant monarchy.


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  #38  
Old 05-28-2015, 08:58 PM
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Well, I'm sure Muhler, the poster, will clarify the situation as soon as possible. Let's wait.

And, in fact, Chris is not from America. He is anglo-american. He was born in London and raised there. He also lived and studied in Switzerland, Austria and Germany. For what I know, he only went to live in the US when he started university.
You must of cross posted with Muhler.

I thought Chris was from the US and then moved/came back...got it backwards! Ok his mother is American? I thought he had an American parent?
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  #39  
Old 05-28-2015, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As far as I understand, under the Instrument of Government of 1975, the King of Sweden has lost the power to create new counts or barons, which are the ordinary titles of hereditary nobility in Sweden.

"Duke" in Sweden is a personal (i.e non-hereditary) title that is reserved to "princes of the Royal House", which I interpret to mean "any legitimate descendant of the King who is not removed from the line of succession". In fact, see Rangkrona – Wikipedia, there is no difference in Swedish heraldy between a duke's crown and a prince's crown (other than the Crown Prince's crown, which is slightly different).

Of course, at some point, it will be necessary to limit who is a "prince of the Royal House", or otherwise after two generations or so, there will be dozens of princes/princesses of Sweden around. Unlike in the Netherlands though, there is no law regulating who can be given an HRH style and/or a territorial dukedom based on proximity of blood to the sovereign or the heir apparent.
Ak okay, I didn't know that. I thought about the uncles of the King, but they were granted titles by the GDss of Luxembourg and not the King, so forget what I said

I really would prefer it too if they streamline the family. Who knows how many more children Madde will have and how many Sofia in future.

Thanks for the infos :)
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  #40  
Old 05-28-2015, 09:06 PM
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I thought Chris was from the US and then moved/came back...got it backwards! Ok his mother is American? I thought he had an American parent?
His father is from the US. His mother is from Austria.
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