Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill expecting their Second Child


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I can see Estelle bossing everyone around and getting into mischief yogether in few years :)
 
That is what I find sad about these babies being born so close together, I admit I was disappointed when I heard Kate was pregnant again. George barely had a year where thr focus was on him. If Daniel and Victoria are thinking about giving siblings to Estelle, perhaps they are also thinking about giving her time to flourish from being thr center of their attention for some years. I am an only child so what do I know of siblings being born either far apart or close together.
The reason I asked if Madeleine's children could inherit is because I thought it was odd that potential heirs to the Swedish throne were being born in America. I don't know where it came from but I always thought a potential monarch should be born in that country.
 
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The fun part is trying, but when you hear another baby is on the way it just a beautiful thing. Congrats to them.
 
Wonderful and surprising News!
Am I the only one, who (silently) hoped, that it would have been her sister, who is getting pregnant?
BYe Bine
 
Congratulations to Madeleine and Chris. I suspected a pregnancy when I saw her at Nobel. I tried to see if she was served wine during the dinner, but the footage changed just before she was to be served.
You certainly were not the only one who thought that but respected the forum rules by not speculating. Nevertheless . . . I was going yeah, nah, yeah, nah. And I was still in that mode every time I saw her in that fabulous Nobel gown.

So it's congratulations to Chris and Madeleine. Nice to know we are right . . . some of the time! :lol:
 
As for myself, I don't think a sibling for Estelle would be spare. But I am concerned with fertility issues and when a royal couple doesn't announce pregnancy or birth quite a time after a wedding or a first birth, I can't hoping they don't go through the same suffering I am goingh through. It is more a matter of empathy with everyone concerned, royal or not, noble or not.
I am very happy for Madeleine, b ut I think you are right !:flowers:
 
The reason I asked if Madeleine's children could inherit is because I thought it was odd that potential heirs to the Swedish throne were being born in America. I don't know where it came from but I always thought a potential monarch should be born in that country.

That iisue was extensively discussed on the forum when Leonore was born. Basically what Swedish law says is that royal princes or princesses must be "raised in Sweden" in order to remain in the line of succession. It is unclear though what "raised in Sweden" means exactly. The general consensus seems to be that Leonore or any future sibling of hers will have to move to Sweden by the time they start elementary school and be educated in Sweden. Otherwise, they will forefeit their succession rights.
 
Wow, that was fast! Congratulations to Madeleine and Chris. :flowers: I did think they would have another child, but not this soon.

Congrats to the parents (and sister :p of course)!!
I hope she has a safe and easy delivery
The little Prince or Princess already has its own facebook page btw....a little early I think but here it is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secon..._and_Gästrikland,_and_Mr._Christopher_O'neill

I noticed that their Wikipedia page was taken down. I do agree that it's a bit early, but Wikipedia are often early on this sort of stuff. The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's second child also already has it's own page.
 
That iisue was extensively discussed on the forum when Leonore was born. Basically what Swedish law says is that royal princes or princesses must be "raised in Sweden" in order to remain in the line of succession. It is unclear though what "raised in Sweden" means exactly. The general consensus seems to be that Leonore or any future sibling of hers will have to move to Sweden by the time they start elementary school and be educated in Sweden. Otherwise, they will forefeit their succession rights.
As princess Madeleine have confirmed that the family will move from the U.S. to Europe in the near future, Prinsessan: Vi flyttar hem igen - Nyheter | SVT.se , it's possible that the will relocate to London, and as there is a Swedish school there the children will be able to get a Swedish education even if not living in Sweden.
 
I wonder if Madeleine will reveal the gender months before the birth like she did with Leonore.
 
As princess Madeleine have confirmed that the family will move from the U.S. to Europe in the near future, Prinsessan: Vi flyttar hem igen - Nyheter | SVT.se , it's possible that the will relocate to London, and as there is a Swedish school there the children will be able to get a Swedish education even if not living in Sweden.

Would going to a Swedish school really be considered being 'raised in Sweden'?
 
:previous: I think that would be pushing the envelope just a little toooooooo far. :whistling:
 
:previous: I think that would be pushing the envelope just a little toooooooo far. :whistling:

Yes, they are clearly pushing the envelope.

I suppose Chris is adamant about not living in Sweden. As I said before, Madeleine will have to make a choice at some point. Either she stands by her husband's choice and strips her children of their birth right to be in the line of succession, or she moves back to Sweden and fulfills her obligations as a member of the House of Bernadotte. I don't think the Swedish royal court will accept half-baked solutions like the children going to a Swedish school in London.
 
Leonore won't start school for another six years. By that time we'll know if V&D have another child, and/or if CP&S have children. That's a biggie. By the time Leonore was born she was the only spare. There are many things you can say about the king, but he's very keen on making sure that the line of succession isn't too sparsely populated. He knows what can happen if there aren't enough people in there - he lived the situation.

I think that it was the king who persuaded Madeleine to let Leonore be in the line of succession, even though she wasn't too keen on the idea. In six years there might be several other children between Estelle and Leonore. If that happens, I think that M&C will stay in London (I think they'll settle there) and take their kids out of the succession.
 
Leonore won't start school for another six years. By that time we'll know if V&D have another child, and/or if CP&S have children. That's a biggie. By the time Leonore was born she was the only spare. There are many things you can say about the king, but he's very keen on making sure that the line of succession isn't too sparsely populated. He knows what can happen if there aren't enough people in there - he lived the situation.

I think that it was the king who persuaded Madeleine to let Leonore be in the line of succession, even though she wasn't too keen on the idea. In six years there might be several other children between Estelle and Leonore. If that happens, I think that M&C will stay in London (I think they'll settle there) and take their kids out of the succession.
I absolutely agree with you.
Now Sweden royal family badly needs Leonore in the line of succession. After six years they will make final decision based on situation at that time.
 
Interesting that she is already included in the succession so she would have to be taken out of it, not one thing I can personally see the king doing!


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I don't think Madeleine will reveal her child's gender unless it will be found out by the press like the last time... She was "forced" to confirm she was expecting a girl other wise I think she wouldn't tell...

I have my opinion about Leonore's title issue etc: I think that if V&D or CP and Sofia will have children, Madeleine and Chris might consider to not move to Sweden... At the moment I think Leonore is needed as a "spare"...
 
Why is everyone calling Leonore "the spare". She has Estelle, Carl-Philip, any children CP has, and then Madeleine ahead of her.
 
Yeash, indeed... In fact I said that at them moment she is the spare... Estelle is still only child and CP is not married yet...
 
Why is everyone calling Leonore "the spare". She has Estelle, Carl-Philip, any children CP has, and then Madeleine ahead of her.

I think that the people who call Leonore "the spare" assume that everyone will die "in natural order" in other words, that Victoria and her siblings will die before their offspring.
When and if that happens and if the situation remains as it is; and there will be no more children born at all (not even to Estelle herself), than Leonore is indeed the spare to Estelle.

However, as P.Victoria has yet to ascend the throne and hopefully she will have a long life, then Estelle will be married and have children of her own before she herself will be Queen, so imo calling "Leonore" the spare is a bit jumping to conclusions...

for now, the spare to Estelle is P.Carl-Philip (and Estelle is the spare to P.Victoria)
 
Leonore won't start school for another six years. By that time we'll know if V&D have another child, and/or if CP&S have children. That's a biggie. By the time Leonore was born she was the only spare. There are many things you can say about the king, but he's very keen on making sure that the line of succession isn't too sparsely populated. He knows what can happen if there aren't enough people in there - he lived the situation.

I think that it was the king who persuaded Madeleine to let Leonore be in the line of succession, even though she wasn't too keen on the idea. In six years there might be several other children between Estelle and Leonore. If that happens, I think that M&C will stay in London (I think they'll settle there) and take their kids out of the succession.


I agree with you Xenobia, there was all sorts of rumours going round about how Madeleine had wanted to renounce her HRH at the time of her marriage but was forced to keep it by her father. In my opinion they're just biding for time. If they don't move to Sweden (which I doubt they will) as soon as there's more children born to the family she'll give up her title or at least have her children taken out of the succession just as she and Chris had originally intended.



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Interesting that she is already included in the succession so she would have to be taken out of it, not one thing I can personally see the king doing!

I don't' think he would exclude her. But M&C can choose to do that, if they don't move back to Sweden, which is a very plausible scenario.

I agree with you Xenobia, there was all sorts of rumours going round about how Madeleine had wanted to renounce her HRH at the time of her marriage but was forced to keep it by her father. In my opinion they're just biding for time. If they don't move to Sweden (which I doubt they will) as soon as there's more children born to the family she'll give up her title or at least have her children taken out of the succession just as she and Chris had originally intended.

We seem to agree about all the details here :) I don't think that Madeleine is interested in royal life for her children. She might show up herself in Sweden for the national day and/or the Nobel celebrations, but that's it. I think she enjoys her privacy as Mrs O'Neill.
 
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I just can't get my head around it personally. Who decides that she hasn't been brought up in Sweden? Somebody somewhere official must make some decision?
 
:previous: Well, if Leonore is only in Sweden for high days and holidays, I should think that would be a no-brainer. However, if she's 18 and only has one cousin, Estelle, then I would be thinking that the rules would bend somewhat.

Sweden had a real hiccup in the succesion and I don't think anyone is taking any chances. If Estelle has a sibling or two and CP and Sofia have one or two children then the pressure will be off. But, until then I think she will remain HRH Princess Leonore and the new child will also be an HRH.
 
wow, madeleine and chris really are wasting no time! leonore having been a honeymoon baby, and with the second pregnancy announcement with leonore being less than a year. i guess madeleine really wanted to start a family and it's great news as they are now permanently residing in sweden.
 
Would going to a Swedish school really be considered being 'raised in Sweden'?
If reading the Swedish order of succession, the stress is more about being of the "pure Lutheran faith" than on "living within the kingdom". It explicit says that a person loses their place in the order of succession if they don't adhere to the faith, but there is nothing explicit in that paragraph about being excluded if not been brought up in Sweden.
 
If reading the Swedish order of succession, the stress is more about being of the "pure Lutheran faith" than on "living within the kingdom". It explicit says that a person loses their place in the order of succession if they don't adhere to the faith, but there is nothing explicit in that paragraph about being excluded if not been brought up in Sweden.

Yes, but the Marshal of the Realm, Svante Lindqvist interpreted the order of succession after Leonore's birth:
"princes and princesses of the Royal House shall be brought up [...] within the Realm", was interpreted into saying that it would be fulfilled if the princess lived and started school in Sweden from the age of 6."
Dag Trygsland Hoelseth: HRH Princess Leonore Lilian Maria of Sweden, Duchess of Gotland

Svante Lindqvist stressed that the order of succession is "extremely vague" to what degree a child in the succession order must be raised and educated in Sweden.
”Annars kan de lika gärna avgå direkt” Nyheter Aftonbladet
 
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No surprise here. I suspected that at first they said "summer" because in june there is already the wedding and maybe it would have been overshadowed
 
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