Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill Expecting First Child

[MarNoe]

How easy is it to get access to copies of birth certificates in the US, specifically the State of New York?

Not easy at all. When I thought I needed one for my ex-husband to claim widows benefits under his social security he was already deceased. New York state only gives birth certificates to the mother, the father or to the person whose birth certificate it is. In my case all of those individuals were deceased, and I would have had to try to get a letter from Social Security stating why I needed the certificate. Fortunately it turned out I didn't need it.

 

[Roslyn]

That's a shame. I'd really love to know how she's described on it.

 

[Frelinghighness]

I had to get birth certificates for our family, and for the son who was born in NYC, it was the highest level computer security.

 

[LadyFinn]

Svensk Damtidning writes that the king and the queen wanted that the baby would be born but Madeleine's strong will won and the baby will be born in USA.
Madeleine's and Chris O'Neill's daughter becomes a U.S. citizen.
- It has no constitutional significance where she gives birth, as the King and Queen have approved Madeleine's decision.
But there is a risk that the baby will "drop" her ticket to the succession order to the Swedish throne.
If Madeleine's daughter gets a Catholic upbringing, which is her father's family tradition, it could mean that she loses her place in the succession. According to the king's attorney, the following applies: If the child becomes only a U.S. citizen, or if it takes too long before the family moves home, Madeleine's daughter can lose her right to the crown.
- We give detailed information on this in connection with the birth. I do not have all the information now, says Annika Sönnerberg, the deputy director of the press department.
Estelles nya kusin blir amerikanska! Svensk Damtidning
Translation

It seems strange that the king's solicitor doesn't know that the child of a Swedish mother will always become a Swedish citizen.
Automatic citizenship through birth, adoption or parental marriage - Swedish Migration Board

 

[vkrish]

I had in mind medical doctors, who, here, usually only have bachelor's degrees in medicine and surgery, etc., not doctorates. And vets, and dentists. They are only courtesy titles.

Oxford Dictionary meaning of a DOCTOR: A person who is qualifies to treat illness. (Then comes the University research degree, which is equally great/significant of course)
Be it a bachelors/vets/dental.
There is absolutely nothing 'courtesy' in that. It is hard-earned by taking the course and clearing the test and earning the degree.

 

[Roslyn]

Opinions vary from country to country and from profession to profession, and context to context, and a dictionary definition is merely one definition. Pronominal pronunciamentos

"Doctor" is not even mentioned in the list of protected titles in the Health Practitioner Regulation National Law legislation of 2009. "Medical Practitioner" is in the list, but not doctor.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Actually, it is more difficult to win a place in veterinary school than in people medical school. Veterinarians are known, at lease in the US, as DVM's. Doctor of Veterinary Medicine. It is a real title, not a courtesy title.

 

[Roslyn]

Actually, it is more difficult to win a place in veterinary school than in people medical school. Veterinarians are known, at lease in the US, as DVM's. Doctor of Veterinary Medicine. It is a real title, not a courtesy title.

As I said, different rules and practices in different countries under different education systems.

I think psychologists are called doctors in the US, too? Or is it that you call psychiatrists, who here are specialist medical practitioners, psychologists?

Wonder how long before these posts are yanked off the stage.

 

[Grandma828]

In the USA a psychartrists is a full fledged Doctor with a speciality. That means, bachelors degree, plus 4 years or more of doctorate program plus residency. Most resident programs last at least 2 years. Only a full fledged doctor can prescribe drugs. A psychologists cannot. DVM is also a minimum of 8 years of schooling and is very tough. I had 2 nieces that could not get through Vet school. A pharmacist also requires 8 years of schooling. They receive a doctorate of Pharmacy, but are not called Dr. on the job. My grandson is in his 2nd year of pharmacy school. This is after his bachelor degree .

 

[scooter]

How easy is it to get access to copies of birth certificates in the US, specifically the State of New York?

If you are the parent, you just go to the town hall in the town the child was born in and apply for a copy. As for anyone else to get it, no idea.

 

[nascarlucy]

So the baby will have dual citizenship, American and Swedish.

 

[SwissRoyal]

I think the Doctor/ Dentist title discussion is a bit off topic.... I respect those who go all the way for a medical degree, but it is not comparable to a born princess title.

So Madde and Chris decided to have the baby in NY, good for them! I fully support.

I am originally Dutch and was a Dutch taxpayer until last year. In the Dutch royal family, the offspring of Constantijn was born abroad, or at least 2 out of 3 kids were born abroad. This was never an issue, even when Constantijn had kids earlier than our crown prince.

With regard to the decision where the baby is to be born, I do not believe that CG and Sylvia had to give permission. Come on, M&C are grown-ups! They will most likely have consulted CG, but it was their decision where to have the baby.

With regard to titles and styles, I am guessing M&C will choose for Mini-Maddie to be little miss O'Neill. I have said this before, this is still what I think will happen.

 

[LadyFinn]

According to Svensk Damtidning, Madeleine and Chris flew back to New York on Sunday and Madeleine has chosen New York Presbyterian/Weill Cornell as the hospital where she will give birth.
SDT1404_

 

[katiebird]

So the baby will have dual citizenship, American and Swedish.

She would have had that anyway, by virtue of Chris' US citizenship.

 

[Marty91charmed]

Do you think that we will have more information on the birth? For example when she will be in labour?

 

[EmmaNL]

Do you think that we will have more information on the birth? For example when she will be in labour?

I don't think so. I think we will have a press release after the birth, that it is a girl, her weight, the birth date, and time.
One or two days after that, I expect the name, perhaps a photo and her titles.

 

[partymom74]

I don't think so. I think we will have a press release after the birth, that it is a girl, her weight, the birth date, and time.
One or two days after that, I expect the name, perhaps a photo and her titles.

I think the swedish press will be right on top of sometime around the time of birth reporting about it!

 

[Princess Phoebe]

Perhaps as Madeleine did not take Chris's last name the baby will become a Countess Bernadotte instead of princess because Chris did not take at title.

 

[Royal_Royal]

Perhaps as Madeleine did not take Chris's last name the baby will become a Countess Bernadotte instead of princess because Chris did not take at title.

Count/Countess Bernadotte of Wisborg is a luxembourgish title, not a swedish one. The Grand Duke of Luxembourg would have to grant this title to the baby.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

I can't wait to see how this title stuff all goes down since the baby will be born a US citizen and US citizens are not allowed to hold foreign titles.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

I can't wait to see how this title stuff all goes down since the baby will be born a US citizen and US citizens are not allowed to hold foreign titles.

Well, in the U.S. the title is not recognized, but I don't think titled U.S. citizens get rounded up or anything. Plenty of American women married to guys with titles, and they use the titles.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

I don't think titled U.S. citizens get rounded up or anything. .

Where did I say they did? No need to be rude and try to make me feel stupid.

Frankly I don't think citizens should use titles. I'm a naturalized citizen and took becoming a citizen very seriously. Becoming a citizen requires relinquishing one's titles.

Right now I see the fact that the birth will take place in the US as a sign that they don't intend for their daughter to have a title. That might be wishful thinking on my part though.

 

[Meraude]

It's the king who decides if the child will be given a title or not, and perhaps he has already informed Madeleine that he won't be giving the baby a title, and that's the reason why she will give birth in the U.S., so that it will look less like a rejection if the child doesn't get some kind of title.

 

[KitKat2006]

I can't wait to see how this title stuff all goes down since the baby will be born a US citizen and US citizens are not allowed to hold foreign titles.

The baby will also be born a swedish citizen (because of the swedish mother) and thus could use a title if a title is given to her.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Count/Countess Bernadotte of Wisborg is a luxembourgish title, not a swedish one. The Grand Duke of Luxembourg would have to grant this title to the baby.

You learn something new everyday - I never knew that. Interesting, I wonder why it's a Luxembourgish title, it would make more sense if it were a Swedish one. Also, the title of Count/ess Bernadotte of Wisborg is usually reserved for former Swedish princes (the common case is that the prince has renounced his succession rights due to a marriage the monarch disagrees with, IIRC; please correct me if I'm wrong) so I doubt Madeleine and Chris's daughter will receive that title.

Hasn't it already been confirmed that she will be a Princess though?

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Where did I say they did? No need to be rude and try to make me feel stupid.

Frankly I don't think citizens should use titles. I'm a naturalized citizen and took becoming a citizen very seriously. Becoming a citizen requires relinquishing one's titles.

Right now I see the fact that the birth will take place in the US as a sign that they don't intend for their daughter to have a title. That might be wishful thinking on my part though.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be so snarky - just my off sense of humor.

 

[LadyFinn]

Hasn't it already been confirmed that she will be a Princess though?

The court hasn't given a press statement about it, but the king's solicitor Axel Calissendorff said in September to Svensk Damtidning, that the child will be a princess or prince and a HRH, because Madeleine is a HRH. Svensk Damtidning has repeated this statement many times, also in this week's issue. If the solicitor would be wrong in this matter, the court should have corrected it officially. Annika Sönnerberg, the deputy director of the press department, told to the press that the court would inform about the possible title and place in the succession order when the child is born, she told this after the court had sent a press release that Madeleine will give birth in New York.

 

[Royal_Royal]

Interesting, I wonder why it's a Luxembourgish title, it would make more sense if it were a Swedish one.

The tradition began in 1892, when Prince Oscar of Sweden (1859-1953), who had renounced his rights to the Throne in order to marry unequally, was granted the title of Count of Wisborg by his uncle, Grand Duke Adolphe of Luxembourg.

 

[JR76]

In my opinion the swedish people would find it ridiculous if members of the royal family started using titles other than prince/princess. It would be seen as very outdated and I'm sure would give the republicans even more wood to stoke their fire with.
How terribly exciting to finally make a comment here!

 

[Stefan]

You learn something new everyday - I never knew that. Interesting, I wonder why it's a Luxembourgish title, it would make more sense if it were a Swedish one. Also, the title of Count/ess Bernadotte of Wisborg is usually reserved for former Swedish princes (the common case is that the prince has renounced his succession rights due to a marriage the monarch disagrees with, IIRC; please correct me if I'm wrong) so I doubt Madeleine and Chris's daughter will receive that title.

Hasn't it already been confirmed that she will be a Princess though?

The swedish King has not the right to create noble Titles. He can only decide about the titles of the members of the Royal House and give them the Ducal Titles like Duke of Värmland, Duchess of Västergodland etc.
Therefore the Princes Lennart, Sigard Carl Johan and Carl became plain Mr. Bernadotte after their respetice marriages without consent of the King.
In 1951 Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg created them Count/Countess of Wisborg. The same had been done for Prince Iscar, the second son of King Oscar II. who ahd bneen created a Count af Wisborg by his maternal uncle Grand Duke Adolphe of Luxembourg.