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  #441  
Old 01-20-2014, 07:41 AM
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November 2nd, 1938-Birth of H.M.Queen Sofia of Spain
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:45 AM
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November 2nd, 1938-Birth of H.M.Queen Sofia of Spain
  #443  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:57 AM
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Madeleine of Sweden, a future working mom
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  #444  
Old 01-20-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyalNight View Post
Princess Madeleine Of Sweden To Give Birth In New York | The Royal Forums

Have you seen this? Was there any official statement?

Edit: I mean the 'not-being-in-the-succession-line' part?
I have seen it as I'm the author. AFAIK, there hasn't been any official announcement regarding succession rights yet, but usually, to be in line to the throne, you have to be born and raised in the country your family reigns over. (Although articles about the Swedish line of succession only mention being raised in Sweden, but I assume you have to be born in the country to have succession rights, but I could be wrong.) Roslyn's post explains it clearly.

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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
In order to be in the line of succession the child has to be raised in Sweden. By having the birth in New York, people are taking it as an indication that Madeline and Chris aren't planning on raising their daughter in Sweden.
It's quite reasonable to think that IMO, since Madeleine has chosen to give birth outside of Sweden. Of course, they could move back to Sweden after the birth, but I doubt it.
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"She is a little angel and like her name, she brings sunshine even on cloudy days. From the bottom of our hearts, we would like to thank each and every one of you for your lovely best wishes for our daughter. She feels very loved". HRH Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland on her daughter, HRH Princess Leonore, Duchess of Gotland.
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  #445  
Old 01-20-2014, 02:28 PM
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The Act of Succession doesn't say that the child must be born in Sweden, and several swedish experts have also said that it doesn't matter where the child is born, but it must be raised in Sweden and in pure evangelical faith.
http://www.riksdagen.se/Global/dokum...ssion-2012.pdf
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  #446  
Old 01-20-2014, 03:00 PM
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I don't think for a second the child will be raised in Sweden, because it would mean the whole family would move to Sweden on a permanent basis, which is a no-go for Chris:

- he has lived in London and New York, Sweden is too small for him, plus I doubt he likes to be within Madde's close circle of friends, where everybody seems to have been engaged with each other at some point
- paparazzis will chase him, day in day out, full focus of press
- he will have to become fluent in swedish
- he will have to look for a new job, I doubt his type of business is big in Sweden
- his inlaws will be at the doorstep and tell him what to do
- he will be 'Mr. Bernadotte'

Even if they do move in case Madde keeps moaning about being homesick or wanting the kid in succesion, it will go terribly wrong, I am sure. Chris is a cosmopolitan alpha male, he'll suffocate in Sweden.
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  #447  
Old 01-20-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I don't think for a second the child will be raised in Sweden, because it would mean the whole family would move to Sweden on a permanent basis, which is a no-go for Chris:

- he has lived in London and New York, Sweden is too small for him, plus I doubt he likes to be within Madde's close circle of friends, where everybody seems to have been engaged with each other at some point
- paparazzis will chase him, day in day out, full focus of press
- he will have to become fluent in swedish
- he will have to look for a new job, I doubt his type of business is big in Sweden
- his inlaws will be at the doorstep and tell him what to do
- he will be 'Mr. Bernadotte'

Even if they do move in case Madde keeps moaning about being homesick or wanting the kid in succesion, it will go terribly wrong, I am sure. Chris is a cosmopolitan alpha male, he'll suffocate in Sweden.

Do you have anything to back any of this up, or is this pure speculation?? Because I'm all for speculating a little bit and thinking about possibilities, but all of the above seems to be made up if whole cloth.

For starters-marrying a royal, wouldn't you be given a LOT of clues that the king and queen would have a lot of say in your life? Like, more than run-of-the-mill in-laws? Point is, maybe Chris knew what was coming with the territory and is totally fine with it. or maybe he isn't. But I don't see a whole lot of evidence out there for either explanation.
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  #448  
Old 01-20-2014, 03:45 PM
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Do you have anything to back any of this up, or is this pure speculation?? Because I'm all for speculating a little bit and thinking about possibilities, but all of the above seems to be made up if whole cloth.

For starters-marrying a royal, wouldn't you be given a LOT of clues that the king and queen would have a lot of say in your life? Like, more than run-of-the-mill in-laws? Point is, maybe Chris knew what was coming with the territory and is totally fine with it. or maybe he isn't. But I don't see a whole lot of evidence out there for either explanation.
Its my opinion based on Chris' demeanor so far, eg the decision not to take a title or to move to Sweden prior to the marriage. IMO this was never an option, same goes for the child being born in Sweden. I think he wants to stay as independet as possible and moving to Sweden on a permanent basis would contradict just that in many ways.
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  #449  
Old 01-20-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Chris is a cosmopolitan alpha male, he'll suffocate in Sweden.
Being an alpha male includes an ability to adapt to changes in circumstances, and to recognise and plan for all eventualities. Living in Sweden might not be his first choice, but I do not believe that the man I saw in the coverage of his wedding, who clearly adores his wife and is well aware of her position in the Swedish RF, has not got a Plan B in place.
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  #450  
Old 01-20-2014, 04:52 PM
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Being an alpha male includes an ability to adapt to changes in circumstances, and to recognise and plan for all eventualities. Living in Sweden might not be his first choice, but I do not believe that the man I saw in the coverage of his wedding, who clearly adores his wife and is well aware of her position in the Swedish RF, has not got a Plan B in place.

While I agree that Chris clearly adores his wife and I don't doubt that he would live in Sweden if necessary, I don't think it's at all what he wants and I don't think he would do well living there.

Chris does seem like the alpha male type, and I don't think he'd do well being subservient to his wife and her family. We can see how many sacrifices Daniel has had to make in order to fulfill his role, and I think it suits Daniel to make those sacrifices, while it wouldn't suit Chris to make similar ones. That's not to say that Daniel is the better man, or that Chris hasn't made sacrifices in his marriage, just that the pair of them are very different, as are their wives.

I wouldn't say that I believe Madeleine wants to have her cake and eat it to, but I think part of the appeal of her marriage was that it enabled her to escape from the role she was born to. She seems to like to choose when she is a Princess of Sweden and when she is able to be more private, and being with Chris and living in New York has enabled this. It seems like she almost deliberately chose a man who wouldn't easily submit to or accept her family's lifestyle, and as such I think if they were to move to Sweden then Chris would be forced to make the kind of sacrifices that Daniel has and would eventually resent her for it.

What perplexes me about this whole thing isn't that Madeleine wants to pick and choose when she is a Princess - she seems to have the support of her family, and as she's not the heir I can't see any problem with it - but rather the idea that this child might be given a title. If we had any real reason to believe that the family was going to return to Sweden and take up more of an official role - and that this daughter would likewise one day fulfil an official role - I would get it. But we don't have any indication of that. Chris made it clear that he didn't want a title when he got married, and they've since made it clear that they aren't going to be full time royals, with Madeleine only acting as such while in Sweden. So I don't get why they would then want a title for their daughter.
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  #451  
Old 01-20-2014, 05:15 PM
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It's these inconsistences that make their situation interesting and provoke thought.
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  #452  
Old 01-20-2014, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Its my opinion based on Chris' demeanor so far, eg the decision not to take a title or to move to Sweden prior to the marriage. IMO this was never an option, same goes for the child being born in Sweden. I think he wants to stay as independet as possible and moving to Sweden on a permanent basis would contradict just that in many ways.

Another option based on the facts you mention is that Madeleine realizes the strains is being a royal and didn't want to move back to Sweden full-time.
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  #453  
Old 01-20-2014, 05:54 PM
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Well, it's of course difficult to analyze someone you don't know, but I also think Chris O'Neil would not thrive in Sweden.

Judging from his background and professional life I think he views Sweden, Swedish politics and the Swedens themselves as socialists who represent most of what he and his family does not believe in.
It would be very difficult indeed I think for him to adapt and basically assimillate into the Swedish mindset.
Apart from that, he may have married and love a Swedish Princess, but that does not mean that he believes in the monarchy.

So I don't think it's a much a case of Chris being an alpha-male, as a case of his mindset, his political views and all he and his family stand for being, if not incompatible, then certainly being less than willing to adopt the lifestyle of a Swedish prince.
Apart from that, I also think he considers the fact that Madeleine and her children are destined to become secondary royals in Sweden anyway. And if his wife is happy in USA, why go and settle in Sweden?
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  #454  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:16 PM
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I also think he considers the fact that Madeleine and her children are destined to become secondary royals in Sweden anyway. And if his wife is happy in USA, why go and settle in Sweden?
I think he's banking on Victoria and Daniel having more children and Carl Philip marrying and producing children so their children will be further from the crown so they won't have to move to Sweden.

I notice that in their engagement interview in October 2012 Chris said he was taking Swedish lessons so he may speak fluently in due course. I also notice that Madeleine said, "For the time being we will continue to live in New York due to both of our current obligations. However, we will not exclude the possibility of moving to Sweden in due course." Has there been a more recent statement from them on this point? http://www.kungahuset.se/royalcourt/...119aa58ce.html
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:23 PM
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I don't think this pregnancy was planned, which is causing all these "problems" they are having now (title, place of birth, succession).

In my opinion, Princess Madeleine was planning to live in New York for some years, than move to Sweden and start a family.
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  #456  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Royal_Royal View Post
I don't think this pregnancy was planned, which is causing all these "problems" they are having now (title, place of birth, succession).

In my opinion, Princess Madeleine was planning to live in New York for some years, than move to Sweden and start a family.
Interesting how different people can form completely opposite views about such things. I think the pregnancy was most definitely planned. Heck, if it wasn't they were very careless! They were already living together. Why get married unless they wanted to have children? As I see it, these "problems" were primarily caused by the marriage, not the birth of a child.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:32 PM
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They were already living together. Why get married unless they wanted to have children?
I never said they didn't wanted to have children. You don't need to get pregnant during your honeymoon, it's perfectly normal to wait some year before start a family.

And "accidents" can happen all the time. My grandparents were married for more than ten years and with two children (aged 10 and 9) when my grandmother got pregnant "by accident" (her words). And that was how my mother came into the world.

Also, there are married couples who don't want children. I know quite a few of them.
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  #458  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:41 PM
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I never said they didn't wanted to have children. You don't need to get pregnant during your honeymoon, it's perfectly normal to wait some year before start a family.
But often people who are living together only get married when they want to have children. And I think that's particularly likely where one member of the couple is the daughter of a King.

Quote:
And "accidents" can happen all the time.
Of course they can. But these days if you don't want to get pregnant there are some pretty reliable options. Plus, the timing of this one suggests to me that it was intentional or at least not a surprise.

Quote:
Also, there are married couples who don't want children. I know quite a few of them.
I'm one half of one of them.
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  #459  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:54 PM
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Well, planned or not, this little girl will be a bless, just like any other bab
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:48 PM
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For a close comparison, Prince Constanjin of the Netherlands, WA youngest brother's children were created counts and countesses by royal decree by Q Beatrix. They have been living in Brussells for quite some time and were in the succession until Beatrix abdicated.
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