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  #341  
Old 01-11-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I know people are angry at Madeleine and, if some of the links and even posts here are to be believed, feel she should be punished for living with her husband outside of Sweden. That she should be figuratively "Cast out of the Kingdom" so to speak, stripped of her title if not her citizenship!

I am confused. What has Madeleine's title got to do with getting married? She was born a Princess and an HRH to boot. Does getting married to Chris somehow negate the circumstances of her own birth?

If HRH Princess Madeleine has a child then unlike the BRF, Sweden doesn't have the "Lady" option and the child is born either a Princess or a Miss at the King's will, regardless of where she is born.

To me it all comes down to money and specifically the belief that the Swedish people are paying her for being a "Princess" and she isn't turning up for work. Do we know if, like the Windor-Mountbatten's and the Wales men, Madeleine has a trust fund? Would we be terribly surprised if she did? More like stunned if she didn't!

So, if she is living off her husband's and her own money who cares if she doesn't live in Sweden. It is irrelevant, as is all the bile streaming out about where Madeleine married (from home like most brides) and where she gives birth (in her new home where her husband lives). The whole situation is getting really ugly and the average expectant mother would rather shut out as much "ugly" as she possibly can. What makes Madeleine different? Nothing and, she has the ability to move intercontinentally to achieve it.

Go Madeleine! And good luck and best wishes on a healthy baby.
There's nothing to argue about. Especially the bolded words which I always think myself when it comes to "Madeleine should give up her title". Why should she? She earned the title when she was born. She is, regardless of where life sends her, the daughter of a ruling king. This makes her a princess for life. She doesn't need to work for the title. She simply is a princess, because she is a born princess. End of story.

A doctor doesn't give back his/her doctor-title of he/she marries a farmer in another country and doesn't work as a doctor anymore. He/she is still a doctor.
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  #342  
Old 01-11-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
A doctor doesn't give back his/her doctor-title of he/she marries a farmer in another country and doesn't work as a doctor anymore. He/she is still a doctor.
But the doctor can't practise if she doesn't comply with her certification authority's requirements and keep her qualifications up to date. Should a princess who doesn't perform royal duties be permitted to retain the style that implies she is a practising princess?
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  #343  
Old 01-11-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I know people are angry at Madeleine and, if some of the links and even posts here are to be believed, feel she should be punished for living with her husband outside of Sweden. That she should be figuratively "Cast out of the Kingdom" so to speak, stripped of her title if not her citizenship!

I am confused. What has Madeleine's title got to do with getting married? She was born a Princess and an HRH to boot. Does getting married to Chris somehow negate the circumstances of her own birth?

If HRH Princess Madeleine has a child then unlike the BRF, Sweden doesn't have the "Lady" option and the child is born either a Princess or a Miss at the King's will, regardless of where she is born.

To me it all comes down to money and specifically the belief that the Swedish people are paying her for being a "Princess" and she isn't turning up for work. Do we know if, like the Windor-Mountbatten's and the Wales men, Madeleine has a trust fund? Would we be terribly surprised if she did? More like stunned if she didn't!

So, if she is living off her husband's and her own money who cares if she doesn't live in Sweden. It is irrelevant, as is all the bile streaming out about where Madeleine married (from home like most brides) and where she gives birth (in her new home where her husband lives). The whole situation is getting really ugly and the average expectant mother would rather shut out as much "ugly" as she possibly can. What makes Madeleine different? Nothing and, she has the ability to move intercontinentally to achieve it.

Go Madeleine! And good luck and best wishes on a healthy baby.
Agree with your argument and share your best wishes to the Princess and her new family However, I do wonder (and hope) there is a new Swedish Stieg Larssen out there to write about the Swedish royal baby controversy Just think about possible titles: baby with a crown tattoo!
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  #344  
Old 01-11-2014, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by star84 View Post
I agree Madeleine is a non-entity in Australia. I was surprised to see that the announcement was on the homepage for news.com.au today - not as a top story, but headlining the entertainment section with a pic.
news.com.au must have lifted it straight from AP. It wasn't there earlier this morning.

Most Australians are not aware Sweden is a kingdom, let alone a Swedish Princess marrying an American!
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  #345  
Old 01-11-2014, 09:46 PM
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I'm somewhat surprised the Swedish royal family didn't prevail upon more them forcefully to have the child in Sweden as it will now also be a US citizen. I wouldn't think that would make the grandparents too happy. But...hey, maybe I'm over thinking the situation.
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  #346  
Old 01-11-2014, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
news.com.au must have lifted it straight from AP. It wasn't there earlier this morning.

Most Australians are not aware Sweden is a kingdom, let alone a Swedish Princess marrying an American!
I would say almost all Americans are also unaware that Sweden is a kingdom, and have still not heard of Madelene or her mostly European raised husband.
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  #347  
Old 01-12-2014, 12:04 AM
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I like that Madeleine has the choice to finding happiness and through travel, luxury of being satisfied from experience while entitled wherever she may go, time and time again to the point of receiving her calling to place her contribution in the world as the one and only Princess of Sweden where she was given birth. May the Princess do as she sees fit for I trust it is part of what she has been given as right by blessing of circumstance as a mind of cherishing and nobility. I trust that the acquired knowledge and commonality from experience to help convince her majesty of right and continuance in her ability to implement the next, and following in destiny for all in our different kind and ways. She comes from a beautiful country as is evident from all the instances I've gotten to see her in pictures and images I collect from many years of frequenting the forum of the Royale.
Listen above anything else to yourself knowing one knows oneself more than anyone else does. And simply fulfill your heart and then console, consider the contribution of the soul of others. I have faith that Madeleine, her siblings and all the Royal members will, have and may know much from many happy and happy times and bring it back to us as they see it fit. Well wishes and allot of good luck, although I think they don't need it. Stay beautiful your Highness. Cheers.
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  #348  
Old 01-12-2014, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis View Post
I like Madeleine, but it seems she is torn between two models and it´s time to decide now what she wants, she is no 20something anymore.
Why should she be torn? She is born a princess and will be a part of the Swedish royal family for her whole life. That will never change no matter where she lives. To have your life on two continents is something many of us are used to. It is never either or. I wish the princess and Chris a wonderful life together and an un-eventful birth of their baby.
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  #349  
Old 01-12-2014, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by angela View Post
If that's how she feels then I don't know why they didn't marry in America as well. I feel she just used Stockholm to have all the trappings of a royal wedding and hasn't looked back since.
It is the custom in many countries, Sweden and US included, that the wedding takes place where the brides family resides, after all they are paying for the wedding.
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  #350  
Old 01-12-2014, 03:07 AM
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Ah, I see you are trying to address the Elephant in the room . . .
Quote:
It is the custom in many countries, Sweden and US included, that the wedding takes place where the brides family resides, after all they are paying for the wedding.
Somehow this simple explanation is utterly beyond the understanding of the whinging anti-Madde Brigade.

Don't get me wrong, I am not exactly a fan, but fairs fair . . . she may be a Princess but she is still Daddy and Mummy's baby girl and even a Princess get's to be a special Princess on her wedding day. And that's the way it should be. It's not like more that a few people didn't make more than a few bucks out of her wedding, so what's their gripe?
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  #351  
Old 01-12-2014, 03:19 AM
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I thought the recent issue related to her retaining her HRH status and/or having the baby where she lives, i.e. in the US. What does that have to do with where she got married? The issues are completely separate. Has someone actually suggested she shouldn't have gotten married in Sweden if she wasn't going to be a working princess? Of course it was reasonable for her to get married in her homeland if that's what she and her fiancee and her family wanted.
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  #352  
Old 01-12-2014, 05:47 AM
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Imo if she wouldn't get an allowance from the SRF, there would be no discussion anyway...
The fact that a swedish princess lives abroad is not new and the fact that children are born abroad is not new (both done by the King's sister Margaretha, who remained a princess herself, even if her children are not).

But P.Madeleine seems to perform relatively few royal duties, in other words does very little for the money she receives from the government and therefore from the people, it feels as if she doesn't feel a strong connection to Sweden anymore

There is no reason why P.Madeleine should loose her title, her allowance is another matter...
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  #353  
Old 01-12-2014, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Imo if she wouldn't get an allowance from the SRF, there would be no discussion anyway...
The fact that a swedish princess lives abroad is not new and the fact that children are born abroad is not new (both done by the King's sister Margaretha, who remained a princess herself, even if her children are not).

But P.Madeleine seems to perform relatively few royal duties, in other words does very little for the money she receives from the government and therefore from the people, it feels as if she doesn't feel a strong connection to Sweden anymore

There is no reason why P.Madeleine should loose her title, her allowance is another matter...
We can't compare princess Margaretha and Madeleine, because when she married, princess Margaretha lost her HRH and got an honorary title princess Margaretha, mrs. Ambler. Madeleine is still HRH Princess Madeleine, Princess of Sweden. Princess Margaretha isn't a member of the official royal family, Madeleine is.
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  #354  
Old 01-12-2014, 07:21 AM
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I personally find it a step too far to ask Madeleine to give up her title. She is who she is, a born HRH Princess of Sweden. Its a totally different matter for ther daughter though. She will not grow up in Sweden, her father is Mr O Neill, will not belong to the core SRF, why should she become HRH by birth.
If you look around, Spain, Denmark, Netherlands, you dont see the siblings of a heir to the throne's kids getting an HRH title, its completely out of place.
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  #355  
Old 01-12-2014, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
Madeline is now 4th in line to the Swedish throne. There is Victoria, Estelle and CP ahead of her. The chance of her ever being needed is very remote. I think she is wise to build her own life instead of being a hanger on royal. I hope she has married for love and enjoys her life.
That's absolutely true. It is likely that Victoria will have some more children, who can be 3th, 4th etc. in the line to the throne. It is likely too that CP will marry once and get a couple of kids who will be (when Victoria doesn't have any more children) 4th, 5th etc. in line or (when Victoria does have more children) 6th, 7th. After them all (Victoria, Estelle, Victoria's possible future children, CP, CP's possible children) it's highly unlikely Madeleine or her daugther is ever needed for the Swedish throne.
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  #356  
Old 01-12-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I personally find it a step too far to ask Madeleine to give up her title. She is who she is, a born HRH Princess of Sweden. Its a totally different matter for ther daughter though. She will not grow up in Sweden, her father is Mr O Neill, will not belong to the core SRF, why should she become HRH by birth.
If you look around, Spain, Denmark, Netherlands, you dont see the siblings of a heir to the throne's kids getting an HRH title, its completely out of place.
In the NL these siblings also don't get an allowance
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  #357  
Old 01-12-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
In the NL these siblings also don't get an allowance
IMO Madeleine lives off a trust fund, she doesnt get an official allowance? But you are right, she lives off the King's money, doesnt have a job and earn her own money, like other heirs' siblings in other countries.

The SRF needs to see the sign of the times now. Its not right to marry a private person to have an escape route out of duty, whenever you feel this way. You need to be consistent, not cherry picking.
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  #358  
Old 01-12-2014, 08:20 AM
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Looking at this from outside Sweden, I see this as a sign that Madeleine is slowly cutting her ties to Sweden. - Or rather that she is realising that her future and not least the future of her children is outside Sweden.

As one of you pointed out, children of Madeleine will be pretty far down the Line of Succession - on top of that their daily lives will have little to do with Sweden.

And one more thing: If CP is getting married soon, as rumours seems to suggest, then the SRF will have three adult couples to represent the family. And CP and his wife Sofia (I guess that's almost certain now) are practically under obligation to produce a couple of kids, and soon.
We may presume that Madeleine will know of such plans and that may also be a factor (albeit minor) in their decision to let her give birth in New York.

Had the situation been that Victoria had not yet married, or V&D hadn't had or been able to have children.
Or CP wasn't on the brink of marrying himself, then I believe the situation would have been different and Madeleine would have been under considerable pressure, not only to live in Sweden but also to give birth in Sweden. - Just in case...
As it, and to be brutally cynical, Madeleine and her future children are being phased out of the SRF and despite her charm and qualities she can be spared.

As I see it Madeleine married into Chris O'Neil's family, not the other way around.
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  #359  
Old 01-12-2014, 09:49 AM
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For me the most important thing is that the birth is easy for Madeleine and that their little daughter is healthy.

For the whole discussion of Madeleine's apanage: When she has engagements for the SRF she should get an expense allowance. And if she is working for the World Childhoold Foundation (which belongs for me partly to the SRF) she should get paid from the WCF. And should not the discussion of the apanage be part of the "General information of Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill"-Thread.

I can comprehend the decision of Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill to let the baby be born in New York City. There is the doctor who lead her through the pregnancy. I can't imagine that in Sweden was also a doctor she had visited. Of course I had been very pleased if the little girl would have been born in Stockholm. I am sure that the royal couple and her siblings will fly as soon as possible to Madeleine, Chris and her sweet daughter. I am also sure that the little girl will be the first time in Sweden when her grandfather will celebrate his birthday.
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  #360  
Old 01-12-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
I would say almost all Americans are also unaware that Sweden is a kingdom, and have still not heard of Madelene or her mostly European raised husband.
I quite agree. And even for Americans who know that there are other monarchies, we tend to image them all along the lines the British Monarchy. We are not very discerning.

This is quite an independent seeming decision. Hopefully, it will reduce the inevitable comparisons with the impeccable Estelle. That's a heavy burden for a baby to bear.
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