Madeleine and Chris: Media and Public Opinion


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:previous: Exactly...and who is not to say he didn't celebrate his father's in law's birthday privately with the rest of the family.

Let's face it folks...as a private citizen who works, who is married to a member of any royal family...there are going to be times during the royal work day when he is also working and won't be able to attend to certain events. So yes, he is going to pick and choose. I would imagine they are looking at his work schedule, and telling him of the events that he can possibly attend. Should he give up his job and live off the Swedish taxpayer:ohmy:

I am confused by what people want of Chris now. It seems to change daily.

Everyone uses family connections. It just that some connections are greater than others.


Frankly, I find it odd that he didn't attend the King's birthday celebrations now that he is living in Sweden. It's not like he has a good excuse and couldn't fit it into his agenda.

Besides, although he and his family are not exactly "living off taxpayers' money", aren't they living in an apartment at the Royal Mews ? Do they pay rent ?
 
That's exactly the problem, because he choses what events to attend. Meeting with the Pope, who would miss that? FIL's birthday, nah, I've got something better to do. We don't know what business is Chris attending to but it gives the impression that he makes himself available when it suits HIM.

If he wants to be a private person than be a private person but don't surface every time something big is on the agenda.

This. I couldn't agree more. I liked Chris at first, but he has worked hard to make me change my mind. He just shows up when it suits him, not for any of the bread and butter events. Either he's a private person or he's not. Same goes for Madeleine.
 
Frankly, I find it odd that he didn't attend the King's birthday celebrations now that he is living in Sweden. It's not like he has a good excuse and couldn't fit it into his agenda.

Besides, although he and his family are not exactly "living off taxpayers' money", aren't they living in an apartment at the Royal Mews ? Do they pay rent ?

Again, who is to say he didn't attend the private celebrations [i.e. a birthday dinner]. Just because we didn't see him doens't mean nothing happened. I can't seem to recall the time it happened...but I would imagine that it happened during business/banking hours...and perhaps he was....I don't know...working. i am not sure what that is a hard concept to fathom.

Maybe its me who doesn't get it and I am the only person working. I go to someone office between a certain time during the daily [usually 7.5 hours], five days a week, answer phone calls and do things required my employer. All for a check that I receive twice a month. When there are personal things I need to during the work day, I work around my schedule.

Now Chris is self employed, and forgive me I am not familiar with his job...but I would imagine that he is doing research on particular companies, deciding which companies are good investments, speaking on the phone with his clients and potential investors [again during WORKING HOURS], and makes calculated financial decision based on his conversations and research. I would also imagine that he would need to throw in a royal appearance here and there because you can't tell your investor...Hey...you know that call we scheduled a month ago...I forgot its my FIL's birthday...and I have to go wave on the balcony. Nope...you continue your business call...and you go celebrate that evening.

Or perhaps the SRF, said...you know what...its not necessary for you to attend.

So because he lives in the Royal Mews he has to earn his keep....well...how much is that keep. How many events does he need to attend per month/year that would make it acceptable from the masses to live there. So if he paid rent...it would be okay.

Perhaps he should just buy something in Sweden, so he isn't living off the taxper...but than we hear about how the Royal Mews isn't good enough for Chris and Madde, and how much it costs for royal security at the new place, and people would criticize how much they spent decorating their new place.

IT. NEVER. ENDS.

This. I couldn't agree more. I liked Chris at first, but he has worked hard to make me change my mind. He just shows up when it suits him, not for any of the bread and butter events. Either he's a private person or he's not. Same goes for Madeleine.

If Chris was a total private person we get complaints that no one ever sees him and the rumours , as evidenced here that there is trouble in the marriage because he doesn't support his wife at her events.
 
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If Chris was a total private person we get complaints that no one ever sees him and the rumours , as evidenced here that there is trouble in the marriage because he doesn't support his wife at her events.

I can only speak for myself. I don't think there are problems in the marriage if they don't do everything together. I just would like them to make up their minds.
 
[Perhaps he should just buy something in Sweden, so he isn't living off the taxper...but than we hear about how the Royal Mews isn't good enough for Chris and Madde, and how much it costs for royal security at the new place, and people would criticize how much they spent decorating their new place.

IT. NEVER. ENDS
]// quote

Zonk.. again I agree with every word. In fact I am officially giving you my posting proxy on this issue!;)
 
of course you are right, but the fact that he does a selection opens the door to critizism, he only got the audience because he is related to the SRF. So in cases like these he seizes the opportunity and makes use of his connections while on other occasions he doesnt have time (even family events, FIL's birthday). Its understandable but questionable at the same time.


I know everyday average people who have managed to have an audience with the pope (or previous popes) so to say he only got the audience due to his connection to the SRF (who aren't even Catholic) is a bit of a stretch.


LaRae
 
I can only speak for myself. I don't think there are problems in the marriage if they don't do everything together. I just would like them to make up their minds.

But that's just it. I think they have made up their minds[at least as it relates to Chris's role], its the royal watchers [both here, Germany and Sweden] who keep changing their minds.

IMO there are three options for Chris as it relates to the SRF. He can
1] remain a private citizen who just happens to live at the Mews [and pays his portion of rent not including Madde, Lenore and the new new baby. Just his portion...so he doesn't live off the taxpayer...wouldn't want that]. He attends NO royal events AT ALL. No public birthday celebrations, no royal weddings, no Noble events, etc. Sorry about your Catholic faith and all that...despite the fact your daughter has a chance to meet the Pope....the head of your church.....you can't go but we will bring pics back.
2] becomes a full fledged member of the SRF. Attends events with his wife when necessary, does solo events [pics up his own patronages] and Madde's appandage is increased as a result. Because of course, Chris is no longer supporting his wife, so somebody has to pay for that.
3] continues to work because he might actually enjoy it and it supports his lifestyle. Attends the occassional royal engagement which includes not limited to appearances at the duches, meeting the Pope, an occassional royal wedding, random appearance and maybe showing up at the Nobles. These events may or may not happen during his business hours or a business conflict and he attends events that he is interested in and might enjoy.

Obviously...some of my comments are tongue in cheek...but these are the alternatives that I see...it appears that Chris has chosen Option 3.....maybe I am missing something:whistling:
 
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I totally agree with Zonk, people just love to criticize everything about Madeleine and Chris.
 
Frankly, I find it odd that he didn't attend the King's birthday celebrations now that he is living in Sweden. It's not like he has a good excuse and couldn't fit it into his agenda.

Besides, although he and his family are not exactly "living off taxpayers' money", aren't they living in an apartment at the Royal Mews ? Do they pay rent ?

Yes, they pay rent of their apartment to The National Property Board of Sweden.
 
But that's just it. I think they have made up their minds[at least as it relates to Chris's role], its the royal watchers [both here, Germany and Sweden] who keep changing their minds.

IMO there are three options for Chris as it relates to the SRF. He can
1] remain a private citizen who just happens to live at the Mews [and pays his portion of rent not including Madde, Lenore and the new new baby. Just his portion...so he doesn't live off the taxpayer...wouldn't want that]. He attends NO royal events AT ALL. No public birthday celebrations, no royal weddings, no Noble events, etc. Sorry about your Catholic faith and all that...despite the fact your daughter has a chance to meet the Pope....the head of your church.....you can't go but we will bring pics back.
2] becomes a full fledged member of the SRF. Attends events with his wife when necessary, does solo events [pics up his own patronages] and Madde's appandage is increased as a result. Because of course, Chris is no longer supporting his wife, so somebody has to pay for that.
3] continues to work because he might actually enjoy it and it supports his lifestyle. Attends the occassional royal engagement which includes not limited to appearances at the duches, meeting the Pope, an occassional royal wedding, random appearance and maybe showing up at the Nobles. These events may or may not happen during his business hours or a business conflict and he attends events that he is interested in and might enjoy.

Obviously...some of my comments are tongue in cheek...but these are the alternatives that I see...it appears that Chris has chosen Option 3.....maybe I am missing something:whistling:


And I think everyone should be fine with #3. Why on earth should this not be a valid option?

People just like to find fault.


LaRae
 
Agree with Zonk all the way! It amazes me how this couple (especially Chris because Madeleine sometimes deserves some critics IMO) gets bashed but another couple gets always justified and defended:bang::whistling:
 
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Since I'm not Swedish, I don't know why the media are so antagonistic towards Chris and Madeleine. Are they upset because they think that they left New York and came running back to Sweden to live off public money? Do they want them (Chris included) to either be private citizens OR public full-time royals?

I'm actually thinking that this is all a whirlwind for the whole family, particularly Chris. Think of the timeline:
2010/2011- begin a relationship.
2012- engagement
2013- wedding
2014- birth of first child, who is given an HRH and a duchy and is "the spare" for the time being in the line of succession
2015- birth of second child

In the midst of all of this, he's had to move to Sweden, a country where he doesn't know the language (which I'm sure might make working a challenge, even though most people speak English), and has had to enter into a very public role. Chris strikes me as a person who is rather shy, and I'm sure the public role and scrutiny is daunting, particularly the fact that he and his wife are being so criticized within the media! I truly do feel bad for C&M, but particularly Chris.

It will probably be easier for Madeleine to have her children raised in Sweden as part of the royal family, rather than in New York where they are more disconnected from things.
 
I have no problem with Chris running his own business and just showing up for a few important royal occasions. My problem is that he (just like Madeleine) seems to show up when it suits them, not when they can be expected to.

Take the Nobels. Madeleine chose not to attend in 2010 and 2011. In 2012, Chris was supposed to attend with Madeleine, but he excused himself just a few weeks before. The Nobel celebrations is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) occasions in the royal calendar. In 2013, Madeleine was heavily pregnant - a good reason not to attend. I have no problems with that. But showing up when they feel like it, not regularly, that isn't exactly what I expect from a princess of Sweden and her husband. Either you're in, or you're not.
 
:previous: Xenobia, is your grievance more with Madeleine's past attitudes to Royal work than with Chris?
 
:previous: Xenobia, is your grievance more with Madeleine's past attitudes to Royal work than with Chris?

I guess it's a combination. I'm swedish, so I've followed her actions for quite some time now. She has never been a hard worker. Neither has Carl Philip. It's always been Victoria who actually worked, and she's also highly admired and respected here, even among those who aren't royalists.

Chris seems to just tag along in Madeleines pattern of showing up when it suits him/her. I would have no problem at all with an arrangement when they both show up for the National day in june + Nobel in december, and be private the rest of the year. But that's not the case now. They (or one of them) shows up when there's something fancy on the schedule that they want to participate in - not in any of the daily bred and butter events. They can even skip the big events if they don't feel like showing up. And that's what I don't like.
 
I have no problem with Chris running his own business and just showing up for a few important royal occasions. My problem is that he (just like Madeleine) seems to show up when it suits them, not when they can be expected to.

Take the Nobels. Madeleine chose not to attend in 2010 and 2011. In 2012, Chris was supposed to attend with Madeleine, but he excused himself just a few weeks before. The Nobel celebrations is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) occasions in the royal calendar. In 2013, Madeleine was heavily pregnant - a good reason not to attend. I have no problems with that. But showing up when they feel like it, not regularly, that isn't exactly what I expect from a princess of Sweden and her husband. Either you're in, or you're not.


I believe it is possible to be a full member of the Royal House and still have a career of your own and only attend a few state events. Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands is a good example. The problem with Chris is that he declined membership in the Royal House, which was fine when he lived in NYC and had nothing to do with Sweden, but is harder to justify now.
 
People know exactly what Constantijn does for a living, they know that he doesnt show up as he pleases (Chris is tagging along Maddie, and you cannot say the same for her). Chris' problem is that his business is not transparent, and then he makes the mistake to 'forget to pay' his taxes. In the beginning he had a clear position, private person, not a member of the RF. The move to Sweden made everything more difficult. After the critizim on Madeleine Chris all of a sudden showed up (had to show up?) at some unimportant events.

xenobia, I fully agree with your post, there is no red line in what he does, just like Madeleine, what puts both of them in a tenuous position.

I am sure that Chris is not happy with the developent since the wedding, but he has to please his wife. Maddie had underestimated how difficult it is to live in NYC with a kid and without family, altough she had a regular/justifyable job out there, so he had to follow suit. Now Maddie is back in the princess life without doing the bread & butter princess work and Chris is under a scrutiny he never wanted on himself.

I think they have enough money to live for example in London as Mr & Mrs O Neill but Maddie needs her family around her and the princess attention & perks, she is lost on her own with Chris working and just handling the kids.
 
I dont think Chris could be a working royal. At this point Sweden doesnt need 4 working couple and people would complain about supporting him. He couldnt be private though because at the moment his daughter is the spare, his wife is a member of the RF and people would complain about not seeing him. He works in finance so Imo he has to be private and not disclose what he does/his investments.
In a few year they could leave Sweden, but until Leonore is the spare imo they shouldnt.
 
I believe they will leave Sweden and move to London after baby #2 has been baptized.
Sweden was always a temporary solution for them, they had to register as inhabitants because one needs to register somewhere.


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IMO the problem is that there is no clear decisions made by Chris and Madeleine on what role they take. Is Chris a completely private individual who won't be part of the working RF? Or is he part of the working RF? Even the couple don't seem sure.
I think the reason other members of royal families have managed to combine working and being part of a RF is that they set clear boundaries and roles.
I think the move to Sweden from NY was a mistake (though I can see why Madeleine would want to be in Sweden with her family - I'm talking about the media and Chris and Madeleine here) It would have been better for them IMO to move to London or another European city and set up a home, Chris to start working from that city and to only attend key royal events through the year. He could attend the Noble dinner, the King's birthday etc every year.
Surely it would be easy for Chris to say he will attend a set of events each year, the Court would know what he is or isn't showing up for, Chris could easily fit his work around these few events. Madeleine could still do some more duties onto of this, visiting Sweden every few weeks or for a block of time every now and then.
 
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made here, none of us know what they have decided and talked about. I would think as a couple they would have planned things and know what they are doing . Just because they don't announce their plans doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
Chris is not an HRH, I don't see how anybody can expect him to become a working member of the royal family. Madde on the other hand is different.

As for Madde- she will have to settle in Sweden eventually, as is it not required that those in line for the throne attend school in Sweden? That will come before you know it.
 
Chris is not an HRH, I don't see how anybody can expect him to become a working member of the royal family. Madde on the other hand is different.

As for Madde- she will have to settle in Sweden eventually, as is it not required that those in line for the throne attend school in Sweden? That will come before you know it.

There are plenty of HRH's around who are no working members to a royal family. That does not say a lot, on itself.
 
There are plenty of HRH's around who are no working members to a royal family. That does not say a lot, on itself.

I know, but I think it's what each country expects from its own royals. My point is, I'm not sure what Sweden expects from Madde and Chris. I don't think it fair to expect anything from Chris. What they expect/don't expect from Madde (and by extension Carl-Phillippe) is different.
 
Not that it really matters, but I can't help wondering that, if the Victorian social hierarchy were still in place, Prince William would have married Madeleine (the Swedish princess), whereas Kate Middleton perhaps might have ended up with Chris O'Neill (the English banker).
 
I know, but I think it's what each country expects from its own royals. My point is, I'm not sure what Sweden expects from Madde and Chris. I don't think it fair to expect anything from Chris. What they expect/don't expect from Madde (and by extension Carl-Phillippe) is different.


Like I said before - I want and expect consistency. If he (and Madeleine) shows up just for Nobel and the national day celebrations, I'm fine with that. If they both become full time working royals, I'm fine with that as well.

What I really dislike is that they show up when there's something on the schedule that they find interesting (like meeting the pope), and can decide to opt out on big stuff like Nobel. They need to tell us - the Swedish people - what their roles are and what we can expect from them.
 
Not that it really matters, but I can't help wondering that, if the Victorian social hierarchy were still in place, Prince William would have married Madeleine (the Swedish princess), whereas Kate Middleton perhaps might have ended up with Chris O'Neill (the English banker).

That is quite well possible but i have a feeling both couples are better matched they way it is now ;)
 
Like I said before - I want and expect consistency. If he (and Madeleine) shows up just for Nobel and the national day celebrations, I'm fine with that. If they both become full time working royals, I'm fine with that as well.

What I really dislike is that they show up when there's something on the schedule that they find interesting (like meeting the pope), and can decide to opt out on big stuff like Nobel. They need to tell us - the Swedish people - what their roles are and what we can expect from them.

I think Chris is a private person that could attend some events, but he remains a private person. Sweden doesnt support him so if he doesnt do events, no problem. He went to meet the pope but it was also a sort of personal event. He was there as a member of the family.
About Madeleine, she is pregnant. Imo after the pregnancy and the wedding, it's likely her role will be better definend.
I doubt it's likely, but I'd be glad if she becomes a full time working royal again.
 
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made here, none of us know what they have decided and talked about. I would think as a couple they would have planned things and know what they are doing . Just because they don't announce their plans doesn't mean they don't exist.
Oh I agree. Plus, lets face it, I am sure the King and Queen know and approves of all that has gone on and will go on. M & C are not silly. They are not going to upset loved ones for no reason. I can even see them sitting down with V & D going over future plans. I believe the family unit is in tact and that is really all that is important. C & S will be the next couple to feel media bite, but I don't think they will care either. Remember for years the media wanted V & D to part and they were sure wrong about that, much to a lot of nasty people's wishes.
 
I think that generation will all be quite close. I think that M&C will be done after this baby and that CP&S will only have 2 as well. That means that generation of the royal family will be 5 people and their potential spouses which is not that huge. I really think there is a reason that the royal family released those pictures of Estelle and Leonore and I don't think it was just to show a happy family, otherwise it wouldn't have been just the two girls.

Is there a reason people don't think Victoria and Daniel =will have any more children? Estelle is only 3. That's not a long time to wait before another pregnancy. Many people wait even longer. Was the first pregnancy difficult?
 
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