Madeleine and Chris: Media and Public Opinion

[Marengo]

But unlike the belgian King the swedish King can not create new noble titles. He can only decide about the title of the mbers of the royal Family. But i think they should have followed the example from Norway. That Madeleine's children get the surname of ther father but are in line of succession. If nneded they could stuill be created Prince/Princess later.

Thanks for that information Stefan. So that is perhaps why some princes received the Bernadotte title from GDss Charlotte of Luxembourg?

In that case, I suppose gender equality means that if CP's children will be HRH Prince(ss) X, so should the children of Madeleine.

 

[Muhler]

I have glanced at this thread with considerable interest and the impression I get is that there is almost media campaign going on in, if not discrediting M&C then certainly being very critical indeed. But is that really the case?

There have been a number of examples of negative stories. But aren't there always an x number of negative stories over a given period?
What is the comparison in regards to negative/critical stories counted against the positive stories? Does the negative coverage far outweigh the positive press?
Who are writing the negative stories/columns? Are they predominantly by republicans or people who have a history of criticizing the SRF anyway?
How credible/influential/respected are the journalists or columnists writing negative stories about M&C?
Are we talking about the politically correct "opinion elite" (whom no one would listen to if the rest of the "opinion elite" didn't they were oh so interesting)?
How many of these articles would make you and Swedes in general sit up and listen? I.e which are most respectable and credible.

And last but by no means least: What is the word on the street in Sweden?

- A lot of questions, I know. But perhaps we should try and turn the issue around in this debate and have a critical look at the press. That would perhaps result in a more nuanced view.

 

[scooter]

What I really dont understand is the trashing of M and C in the media, where as SH has had a free ride from the press, with a much deeper treasure trove of scandalous pics to mine.

 

[Lady Nimue]

What I really dont understand is the trashing of M and C in the media, where as SH has had a free ride from the press, with a much deeper treasure trove of scandalous pics to mine.

Right-on! 'Tis a puzzle.

 

[camelot23ca]

I think Madeleine's main sin with the media is that she's a young, attractive woman who's not interested in playing their game. She's a potential goldmine if only she'd cooperate with them. They can try and dress things up with pompous articles about Swedish democracy and the apparently beleaguered Swedish taxpayer, but come on. If she was a bland middle aged man the press wouldn't care because bland middle aged men don't sell, no matter what they do, (or don't do).

 

[LadyFinn]

And what do you think that this makes for the public opinion?
"Chris's unknown fortune at a tax haven"
http://z.cdn-expressen.se/images/df/4c/df4c531e07694973b6df38c4a20fd822/502@70.jpg

I put the article to the O'Neill family thread, because his father founded the company in Liechtenstein and his sisters are involved.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f278/the-family-of-chris-oneill-35110-4.html#post1749862

Many people see the cover of Expressen and read it. What does a common Swede who tries to get a long with a small salary, think of this? Even if this wasn't true, people have seen the cover (if it isn't true, Chris must deny it soon). And what it does to the royal family? Maybe people think that if Chris has/has had money at a tax haven, maybe the royal family has money there too?

I can confess that when I see the words "tax haven", I see red...

 

[Fra85]

I have glanced at this thread with considerable interest and the impression I get is that there is almost media campaign going on in, if not discrediting M&C then certainly being very critical indeed. But is that really the case?

There have been a number of examples of negative stories. But aren't there always an x number of negative stories over a given period?
What is the comparison in regards to negative/critical stories counted against the positive stories? Does the negative coverage far outweigh the positive press?
Who are writing the negative stories/columns? Are they predominantly by republicans or people who have a history of criticizing the SRF anyway?
How credible/influential/respected are the journalists or columnists writing negative stories about M&C?
Are we talking about the politically correct "opinion elite" (whom no one would listen to if the rest of the "opinion elite" didn't they were oh so interesting)?
How many of these articles would make you and Swedes in general sit up and listen? I.e which are most respectable and credible.

And last but by no means least: What is the word on the street in Sweden?

- A lot of questions, I know. But perhaps we should try and turn the issue around in this debate and have a critical look at the press. That would perhaps result in a more nuanced view.

I can answer for myself and while I'm not from Sweden, I'm married to one. The people I meet don't really care about the royal family. And this is quite common in the younger generations. They don't think it's necessary.

About the positive stories, MC dont get any.
About the writers, it's both people that have always been critical and people that write well about the RF. i.e. Lindwall is really positive about Sofia.

 

[LadyFinn]

About the positive stories, MC dont get any.
About the writers, it's both people that have always been critical and people that write well about the RF. i.e. Lindwall is really positive about Sofia.

But Lindwall wrote very positive articles about Chris at least until the wedding. He praised Chris very much when he met Chris, Madeleine and the queen at Childhood event in USA, when Chris had said "but Johan, of course I know who you are". And Lindwall praised Chris's speech at the wedding.

 

[Fra85]

But Lindwall wrote very positive articles about Chris at least until the wedding. He praised Chris very much when he met Chris, Madeleine and the queen at Childhood event in USA, when Chris had said "but Johan, of course I know who you are". And Lindwall praised Chris's speech at the wedding.

You are right. I didnt remember.

What makes me curious is why they felt the need to bring back M&C. I don't think Chris was eager and Madeleine could have been happy in London.
While I do think they will move to London next year, it was a mistake to make them come back. This caused a mess and media are attacking them more than if they stayed in USA or UK.

 

[royal rob]

Maybe she was homesick and wanted to be with her family.
Especially as she's having another baby all girls need their mums at these times even if they have nannies etc there is no one like your mum.


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[Duke of Marmalade]

Maybe she was homesick and wanted to be with her family.
Especially as she's having another baby all girls need their mums at these times even if they have nannies etc there is no one like your mum.


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I think so too. I think living abroad with a kid was too much for Madeleine, she might have felt isolated, there is not much green in NY without being photographed. I guess she wasnt as independent as she thought she was (and maybe as Chris thought).

To be honest, this is the only reason for me to understand why they are coming back at all, that Madde misses her family and NYC is not the place to be: Madde is irrelevant for the succession, she could have faded into privacy in NYC. She has never worked much anyway, why now all of a sudden attending bread-and-butter events with Chris tagging along? Chris has given up his job/carrer for what? There is no life for him in Sweden, no business, he doesnt speak the language. Both Madeleine and Chris have managable popularity ratings in Sweden, why are they going back to face the gossip?

This whole recolation doesnt make any sense at all. Missing your family is one downside with lots of advantages, moving back to Sweden means lots of downsides with only one advantage. London would have been a compromise, I don't get it.

 

[LadyFinn]

In last May Madeleine said that Villa Parkudden was too big as a home for them since they don't live permanently in Sweden. Then in July at the recording of SVT's The Year with the Royal Family Madeleine and Chris said that they are planning to move to Europe. And when Chris gave an interview about his tax debts, he said that their staying in Sweden is probably only temporary. And a week after that they registered themselves in Sweden, as "living permanently".

Maybe their move has to do with money in a tax haven, if Chris still has money there? Are the laws in USA of Great Britain more tight regarding that, than in Sweden?

 

[Fra85]

Maybe their move has to do with money in a tax haven, if Chris still has money there? Are the laws in USA of Great Britain more tight regarding that, than in Sweden?

I don't think so, they are not tighter.

 

[Baron Brockdorf]

New article on Expressen
''Does royal family need to become more modern and open? The answer is yes.
But critics and reviewers need to put their act together.


Things are changing quickly now, and several members of the royal family are not. Princess Madeleine had hardly expected to have devastating criticism when she both moved back to Sweden and went on a visit to her dukedom Gastrikland.

After the Succession was changed in 1980 Princess Madeleine was born at number three in succession. As a reserve, she is not at all insignificant. For 14 years the monarchy survived with two childless men, the current king and his uncle Prince Bertil. It could have gone completely wrongs, from a royalists point of view.
So the three royal children Victoria, Carl Philip and Madeleine are irreplaceable parts of the monarchy, and our interest in them is perfectly legitimate.


Sure, you could argue that the mystery will be lost if the royal family becomes too common. But the world is more fun when for example, Queen Elizabeth sets up in a practical joke at the Olympic Games opening ceremony in London. When Prince Carl Philip joked with David Hellenius on the talk-show couch. When Prince Daniel spoke to his expectant wife on a live broadcast.
The current trend towards more open and modern royal family is good. Both Princess Madeleine and the king should embrace it.
But more accessible kings, queens, princes and princesses will also require other treatment. What is it that makes an adult, educated journalists lose his composure when a royal does not dance to their tune?

Jan Scherman gets mad at the Queen because she did not accept his reporters' way of describing her dad. SVT's Rolf Fredriksson thinks it's appropriate to humiliate Crown Princess Victoria facing two Holocaust survivors at Auschwitz. The head of the P4 Gävleborg takes to unpleasant overtones of contempt against Princess Madeleine when she does not give his channel an interview.
Last year, the 69 years since the liberation of Auschwitz, was celebrated the day at the Raoul Wallenberg square in Stockholm. Not more than 100 people were there, two of them were Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel. This year Crown Princess Victoria went to Auschwitz with survivors of Holocaust Remembrance Day.

It is not the "critical review" which matters to the Crown Princess on 'relatives who were supporters of the Nazis. " It is dismissive of the seriousness of the moment, and acquiescing to an agenda that is hardly of interest to the public service viewers.
Many Swedish journalists carrying an unprofessional contempt for the royal family, and yearns after getting applause from colleagues who think that the royal family must at all times be lathered to. It's boring. For those who ask the right questions to members of the Swedish royal family often get interesting answers. And by "right" I mean not doctored, but journalistically relevant.
Life is not always easy. The media reality that exists in Sweden is pne that the royals have to learn to deal with. To promote a more open royal house is a delicate balancing act. But that's the way to go, we would like to know more about our foremost representatives.''
Ställ den rätta frågan till Victoria | Britta Svensson | Expressen


I think that this is a fair article, and looks at things from both points of view

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

In last May Madeleine said that Villa Parkudden was too big as a home for them since they don't live permanently in Sweden. Then in July at the recording of SVT's The Year with the Royal Family Madeleine and Chris said that they are planning to move to Europe. And when Chris gave an interview about his tax debts, he said that their staying in Sweden is probably only temporary. And a week after that they registered themselves in Sweden, as "living permanently".

Exactly. That's how confusing their message is. Changing their minds every 5 minutes and communicating it.

Maybe their move has to do with money in a tax haven, if Chris still has money there? Are the laws in USA of Great Britain more tight regarding that, than in Sweden?

Taxes are tough everywhere, especially in the US as Chris, as a US citizen, will have to pay taxes in the US no matter in what country he resides and pays taxes (additionally). It is extra scrutiny.

 

[Lady Nimue]

This whole recolation doesnt make any sense at all.

It does to me. As someone mentioned, once the babies come along, one yearns for family to be around, especially one's mother (if the relationship is good). Plus my sense is Chris is more European than American. It does make sense (imo) for them to finally make a decision where they wish to really raise up their family and have the children attend school. Makes so much sense to me.

NYC was fine for 'getting away' from Jonas and getting into a new social whirl, but the experience of raising a baby so far away from family in NYC must have proved isolating for Madeleine. Just a hunch.

 

[Muhler]

I think the Expressen article, posted by Baron Brockdorf is pretty spot on.

Looking from the outside there is, IMO, a peculiar tendency among the Swedish media in particular to conform as much as possible and to have the same opinions.
When you combine that with the way too common feeling, I believe many in the media share. I.e. that they are God's gift to the ignorant masses, it's perhaps hardly surprising.
Right now it happens to be M&C the press take it out on. Next year they will select some new favorite aversions...

Okay, I can understand the press wishing to know what Madeleine want's to do with her life and what role Chris may have in such a more or less semi-official life. But to demand that they are to meet the press whenever some insignificant journalist wish to write about them is far out IMO.
And going on about Chris's finances. Well, he's an American business man living in America and as long as he doesn't do anything illegal, his business and economy is no one else business and since he is not a titled member of the SRF he doesn't have to abide by the moral norms of the Swedish society.
So what have they done wrong? Well, they have committed the unpardonable sin of not being available 24/7 for the press and not being totally open about their future plans, private life and economy.
And that I suspect is worse than the issue of whether Madeleine is a working Princess Madeleine or Mrs. O'Neil.

Also, the tall poppy syndrome is very much alive and well in Sweden.

 

[Mbruno]

It does to me. As someone mentioned, once the babies come along, one yearns for family to be around, especially one's mother (if the relationship is good). Plus my sense is Chris is more European than American. It does make sense (imo) for them to finally make a decision where they wish to really raise up their family and have the children attend school. Makes so much sense to me.

NYC was fine for 'getting away' from Jonas and getting into a new social whirl, but the experience of raising a baby so far away from family in NYC must have proved isolating for Madeleine. Just a hunch.

I don't think "missing her mother" or "yearning for family" is what made Madeleine come back. The life of a royal princess is substantially different from a "bourgeois" (middle-class) lifestyle, no matter how much money one has. As I see it, Madeleine was over playing " Mrs O'Neill " and wanted to go back to being a Princess of Sweden. In addition, I suspect the Royal Court felt that Madeleine's staying in New York was hurting the Royal Family's image and her parents may have put pressure on her to come back.

Just speculation on my part of course.

 

[hernameispekka]

I don't think "missing her mother" or "yearning for family" is what made Madeleine come back. The life of a royal princess is substantially different from a "bourgeois" (middle-class) lifestyle, no matter how much money one has. As I see it, Madeleine was over playing " Mrs O'Neill " and wanted to go back to being a Princess of Sweden. In addition, I suspect the Royal Court felt that Madeleine's staying in New York was hurting the Royal Family's image and her parents may have put pressure on her to come back.

Just speculation on my part of course.

My guess is that being a normal rich person is way easier than being a royal where every mistake you make can bring down your own country's monarchy or cause diplomatic incidents....

 

[Lady Nimue]

]My guess is that being a normal rich person is way easier than being a royal [/B]where every mistake you make can bring down your own country's monarchy or cause diplomatic incidents....

I agree. There has to be other aspects folding into this decision. At this point, I think the reasons will always remain obscure, if not always an unknown.

 

[Tiggersk8]

I think the Expressen article, posted by Baron Brockdorf is pretty spot on.

Looking from the outside there is, IMO, a peculiar tendency among the Swedish media in particular to conform as much as possible and to have the same opinions.
When you combine that with the way too common feeling, I believe many in the media share. I.e. that they are God's gift to the ignorant masses, it's perhaps hardly surprising.
Right now it happens to be M&C the press take it out on. Next year they will select some new favorite aversions...

Okay, I can understand the press wishing to know what Madeleine want's to do with her life and what role Chris may have in such a more or less semi-official life. But to demand that they are to meet the press whenever some insignificant journalist wish to write about them is far out IMO.
And going on about Chris's finances. Well, he's an American business man living in America and as long as he doesn't do anything illegal, his business and economy is no one else business and since he is not a titled member of the SRF he doesn't have to abide by the moral norms of the Swedish society.
So what have they done wrong? Well, they have committed the unpardonable sin of not being available 24/7 for the press and not being totally open about their future plans, private life and economy.
And that I suspect is worse than the issue of whether Madeleine is a working Princess Madeleine or Mrs. O'Neil.

Also, the tall poppy syndrome is very much alive and well in Sweden.

Normally I would agree w/you, but here's the difference : This was the first time Madeleine has visited one of her two Duchys in quite a few years. There *should* have been some sort of, at the very least, a quick little "chat" w/the Media during her visit.

Even her saying quick little things like, "I can't believe how much this place has grown over the years. It's one thing to be briefed about it, but to actually see it? It's fantastic!!" to the Press Pool before going into or leaving one of the Events would have been enough. I believe if she had done something like that, then there would not be the firestorm that is going on right now because the perception would be that Madeleine does care about her Duchys and is aware of what is happening in them.

It didn't and instead of the Press Office releasing a Statement that HRH would be giving an indepth interview to two members of the Media, one from each Duchy, to talk about both Counties (Is that the right term?), her feelings about them and what she feels needs to happen in both of them to flourish in the upcoming years, what happens? Nothing but excuses that has made the situation worse.

It is such an unnecessary mess and one that could so easily have been fixed if handled properly, but it didn't.

As for her not acknowledging the flower kids at her Wedding as she was headed down the aisle? I had a good laugh over that one, as I think just about everyone knows the Bride only has eyes for one person during that moment and that's her Groom.


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[LadyFinn]

As for her not acknowledging the flower kids at her Wedding as she was headed down the aisle? I had a good laugh over that one, as I think just about everyone knows the Bride only has eyes for one person during that moment and that's her Groom.


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It wasn't about the flower kids, it was about the children's choir which was singing when Madeleine walked to the altar with the king, they were standing at the aisle, and the young musicians who were playing when they left the church.

 

[Marengo]

Well, one can hardly blame a bride who enters the church for just looking at her groom. but the Swedish press works in mysterious ways and apparently they can.

 

[Fra85]

Normally I would agree w/you, but here's the difference : This was the first time Madeleine has visited one of her two Duchys in quite a few years. There *should* have been some sort of, at the very least, a quick little "chat" w/the Media during her visit.

Even her saying quick little things like, "I can't believe how much this place has grown over the years. It's one thing to be briefed about it, but to actually see it? It's fantastic!!" to the Press Pool before going into or leaving one of the Events would have been enough. I believe if she had done something like that, then there would not be the firestorm that is going on right now because the perception would be that Madeleine does care about her Duchys and is aware of what is happening in them.

I agree. I like Madeleine and Chris, but I think they should be more careful at handling their appearences.
At the moment they are the scapegoat of the SRF, so they should try to avoid everyhting that could be controversial and try to promote themselves a bit.
That being said, t's quite clear they are under a campaign because if any royal would be scrutinized as they are being now, I think few would keep their perfect image.
From the state of their marriage to her public appearences, from his business to his musical taste everything is scrutinized and put in a bad light.

 

[Anne2]

Madie's position far from being comfortable right now: some years of relative freedom, and now suddenly instead of being warmly welcome back home, everyone scrutenizes whatever can be analysed.
I just fear the pressure would become (too) high for the couple. Chris did everything possible to stay far away from duties, continuing his "ordinary life", but still impossible to escape comments and questions.

 

[Kellydofc]

Why the king made Leonore an HRH is not known.

My theory is it's because at the moment Leonore is the spare for that generation. I've had a sneaking suspicion since Leonore was give the HRH that Victoria and Daniel won't be having any more children and they know it, either because they can't or don't want to for reasons that are unknown to us. Since CP wasn't married or even engaged when Leonore was born I think this was the King's way of ensuring that Leonore was raised as the spare in case Estelle for whatever reason doesn't become queen.
I do think that Madeleine and Cris are hoping that as time goes on CP and Sofia will have children and Leonore will be able to slip down the line of succession and the whole family will be able to step out of the limelight on all but the most important of occasions. For now, that is not an option for them but I suspect in the next 15-20 years they will get their wish.

 

[acdc1]

My theory is it's because at the moment Leonore is the spare for that generation. I've had a sneaking suspicion since Leonore was give the HRH that Victoria and Daniel won't be having any more children and they know it, either because they can't or don't want to for reasons that are unknown to us. Since CP wasn't married or even engaged when Leonore was born I think this was the King's way of ensuring that Leonore was raised as the spare in case Estelle for whatever reason doesn't become queen.
I do think that Madeleine and Cris are hoping that as time goes on CP and Sofia will have children and Leonore will be able to slip down the line of succession and the whole family will be able to step out of the limelight on all but the most important of occasions. For now, that is not an option for them but I suspect in the next 15-20 years they will get their wish.

I suspect that you may be right. However, wouldn't having Leonore being an HRH be difficult to simply "step out of the limelight?" Being an HRH (and a Duchess to boot!) automatically comes with certain duties and expectations that she wouldn't have if she was simply Leonore O'Neill. Maybe things will be different in 15-20 years, when CP has children and Estelle gets older and is able to take on more of a public role and duties, but I doubt that she will be able to simply slip away and live comfortably out of the limelight.

 

[Kellydofc]

I suspect that you may be right. However, wouldn't having Leonore being an HRH be difficult to simply "step out of the limelight?" Maybe things will be different in 15-20 years, when CP has children and Estelle gets older and is able to take on more of a public role and duties.

I suspect Leonore will give up the HRH when she becomes an adult. Just as I suspect if Victoria and Daniel had had more children or if CP had any when Leonore was born she wouldn't have been given the title.
I've always gotten the impression that Chris was on the shy side and would prefer to stay out of the public eye. We don't know what goes on in the background or how much pressure was put on M&C to accept the HRH for their daughter. I find it interesting that many people seem to think M&C pushed for the title when I have always assumed it was the grandparents who pushed for it.
I don't think it was any sort of accident that there were pictures released of Estelle and Leonore when the latter was still an infant. Is there any other royal family where some of the first pictures released of an infant were with their first cousin who is the 3rd in line to the throne? I think it was done on purpose, to establish continuity.
I'd bet a good amount of money that M&C are praying like mad that CP&S have children quickly so they can get the heck out of dodge and live on the DL but for now I think it has been made clear to them that's not an option.

 

[acdc1]

I do feel bad for them; all of the negative press is largely undeserved, IMO. Chris has struck me as a rather shy person who would MUCH prefer to stay away from the eyes of the media, and I feel like he would rather live as a private citizen with his family and continue on with his business interests. I think that he has been placed in a weird position of public-private limbo; he's not like Prince Daniel, who gave up his private career and interests to be a public royal figure, but because he's married to Madeleine, who, IMO, didn't want to give up her role as a public figure, he can't be totally private. The move to Sweden was probably mostly out of his control, and I'm sure it must be a difficult and often uncomfortable situation for him (thrust into the limelight, doesn't speak the language, had never expected to be living there, no business there, etc).

 

[Anne2]

I suspect Leonore will give up the HRH when she becomes an adult. Just as I suspect if Victoria and Daniel had had more children or if CP had any when Leonore was born she wouldn't have been given the title.
I've always gotten the impression that Chris was on the shy side and would prefer to stay out of the public eye. We don't know what goes on in the background or how much pressure was put on M&C to accept the HRH for their daughter. I find it interesting that many people seem to think M&C pushed for the title when I have always assumed it was the grandparents who pushed for it.
I'd bet a good amount of money that M&C are praying like mad that CP&S have children quickly so they can get the heck out of dodge and live on the DL but for now I think it has been made clear to them that's not an option.

I also believe there have been preesure from the RF towards Madie to come back in Sweden, and that is not necessarily to the satisfaction of Chris. The younger generation will require a close relationship between Estelle and Leonore.