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  #101  
Old 02-11-2015, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post


I don't think they should have their own PR person. Multiple captains on one ship may be counter productive. For the life of me I can not see what is wrong with the present sollution, it seems an ideal one to me. Both for Sweden as for the people involved. In any case, they can either quietly proceed in the present way and wait for this negativity to blow over -it usually does. Or they can decide to give an 'up yours' and stay away completely. Considering the hostility that mainly seems to steam from jealousy and xenophobia I think the latter should be a tempting option.
We might agree more than it seems :) I don't think that they should have an official PR-person working for them full time. That, I agree, could be a bad recepie. What they need is IMO advice from someone who knows how to handle media and can give them advice on how to improve the public perception. The problem with the present solution is that it isn't working for them. The SRF hasn't exactly had a great PR-department. They need to somehow work around that.
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  #102  
Old 02-11-2015, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post

I really don't see how Chris's situation didnt work out. Because of a few nasty articles in the Swedish press?

What do you think would have been best for him to do? Drop his carreer, become and HRH and have the occassional public duty like his brother-in-law? I really don't think Sweden is large enough to need 8 full time royals, there simply isn't enough that warrants royal attention. That only works in the UK. Even CP seems to have difficulties in getting an agenda that has more than 1 public duty per week.
I agree with everything you said.
Sweden doesnt nedd 4 couples working for the State. I do think Madeleine's choice to work for Childhood is right as it is Chris's choice to continue his business. They have their own life and they show up for some events.
If Chris doesnt show up, people would criticize him. They did it when he didnt attend the Nobel. But again they criticize him for going to visit the Duchy of M. And it wasnt a glam event at all.


Quote:
There is a lot of things you can say about CP and Sofia, but they can handle media
I disagree. I dont want to make comparisons, so I will just say that If the press does the same with CP&S they do with M&C, the situation for the SRF would be much worse.
It's the choice of the press at the moment, we'll see if it continues.

Quote:
The risk of being in business is that you may get into financial trouble, that is one of the reasons why they earn more money. If staying out of financial trouble was a requirement the court should have forbidden the wedding to a businessman and made sure she married a librarian.
Exactly.
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  #103  
Old 02-11-2015, 07:13 AM
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Sometimes I find the attitude of "Entitlement" very hard to swallow. And I am not talking about Madeleine or Chris, but rather those of the "social medais" persuasion. Just because these people put mindnumbingly awful stuff online, they have no social values, no common decency.

The King's sisters were able to maintain a good relationship with the people of Sweden for no other reason than there was not instant media prying into every part of their lives. There were boundries which neither Madeleine nor Carl Philip have. The media trawls through the minutia of their persoanal private lives using the lame excuse that "the people have a right to know". Well actually they don't.

I feel sorry for Chris most of all. Madeleine grew up with it and there was a lot less of it in NY both before and after they married. But I believe that Chris made a fundamental error when he weighed up the impact of marrying Madeleine. I believe he thought her title, HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden, was basically all there was to know about her being royal, just like the title is all there is to his sister's marrying into European aristocracy. It is very possible he did not understand that this was an "real" title and that the Sweden is a Constitutional Monarchy and that she is the daughter of a "real" King.

It looks to have been a rude awakening!
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  #104  
Old 02-11-2015, 07:20 AM
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Having an own PR-person has worked extremely well for Carl Philip, after he hired Christina Saliba, his image has improved very much. Saliba has trained Carl Philip's ability to give speeches and got him more self-confident.

Everything started to go bad for Madeleine already in 2010, when she was so "broken" in the beginning of May that she couldn't do her work event in Seattle. Victoria flew from Sweden to Seattle. Then Madeleine didn't attend at Victoria's and Daniel's banns of marriage, she went to a holiday, where she met Chris, lucky for her. When she has been living in USA, she has spent summer in Sweden but hasn't done many work events outside the National Day, Victoria's birthday and the opening of the Parliament. People criticize her about that she doesn't want to meet common Swedes. She has attended at some events of the Swedish-American Chamber of Commerce in New York, but not many.

About Madeleine's work in Childhood, it is difficult to say, how much she works for Childhood. Many people see the big amount of paparazzi photos of Madeleine and Chris walking in New York, and think that she has time to walk on town and at lunches, so does she work at all.

When Chris didn't attend at the Nobels in 2012, it was said that he couldn't attend because of his work. He was criticized because a couple of days later he went with Madeleine to a three-day-wedding in St. Moritz. It has been surprising that Chris didn't understand how large the publicity of the royals is in Sweden. It seems odd if Madeleine hasn't told what kind of a life she has lived in Sweden as a member of the royal family.
  #105  
Old 02-11-2015, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Having an own PR-person has worked extremely well for Carl Philip, after he hired Christina Saliba, his image has improved very much. Saliba has trained Carl Philip's ability to give speeches and got him more self-confident.
Thanks - I knew CP was working with someone, but didn't remember the name. Do you know if she's coaching Sofia as well?

I think that the comparison between CP&Sofia and Chris&Madeleine is actually very interesting. CP has previously been seen as work shy and just shy in general. And Sofia - to say that she has some baggage would be an understatement. Still, they work the press better than M&C. At least so far. That is kind of strange, but then again - it's a question of public perception.
  #106  
Old 02-11-2015, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Thanks - I knew CP was working with someone, but didn't remember the name. Do you know if she's coaching Sofia as well?

I think that the comparison between CP&Sofia and Chris&Madeleine is actually very interesting. CP has previously been seen as work shy and just shy in general. And Sofia - to say that she has some baggage would be an understatement. Still, they work the press better than M&C. At least so far. That is kind of strange, but then again - it's a question of public perception.
As I said before. Entitlement is much worse in the Swedish eye than some scandals. If she still did it, yes. But she has turned herself into something much better and that is respected. But always leading an entitled life (as Chris also has done, not Madeleine) is not admired. IKEAs Ingvar Kamprad making money is admired because he worked up from nothing, but making money when you've always had money is not something admired in Sweden. For better or worse.
  #107  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Yes, a move to Europe but not Sweden sounds like an excellent compromise to me. Close enough to be able to get to Sweden and back quickly and easily, but far enough away so that Chris can live his own life and have his own identity and not be defined by his relationship to a Royal princess.
Except that the children will have to be raised in Sweden, or else they will be removed from the line of succession. I don't think Madeleine or the King would like the latter to happen.

I may sound a little harsh, but the way I see it, either Chris agrees to move permanently to Sweden at some point, e.g. by the time the kids start elementary school, or he and Madeleine will have to divorce. They can't have it both ways if Madeleine and her children are to remain members of Royal House.
  #108  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:10 AM
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Wouldn't that be a perfect example of 'the cure is worse than the disease'? I doubt it would come to anything drastic as that.

Why such a rule exists in this day and age of skype, whats app, email, air travel etc. is a mystery btw.
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  #109  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:13 AM
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Being a Princess is no free ticket for paperazzi to infringe her right on a private lifesphere. The Princess of Hannover -and in her slipstream- the Dutch and Swedish Royal Houses have already won lawsuits about this.

I understand that some on the forum see a being Princess as "a career" but that is nonsense. Madeleine was born a Princess and will die as a Princess. It is absurd to nag about the costs of Rolex watches. Mr O'Neill and Princess Madeleine are well-to-do persons and when they like to buy a premium watch, they have every right to do so. It is their money.
  #110  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post



I really don't think Sweden is large enough to need 8 full time royals, there simply isn't enough that warrants royal attention. That only works in the UK.
Although I agree with you that Sweden probably doesn't need "8 full-time royals", the reality is that Madeleine does not seem to be ready to give up her royal status and her parents seem to favor keeping her and her children as members of the Royal House (otherwise, the King would not have made Leonore an HRH).

I don't think the King's position will change as long as he lives, even if Victoria or CP have further children of their own, thus moving Madeleine and her issue down in the line of succession.
  #111  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
As I said before. Entitlement is much worse in the Swedish eye than some scandals. If she still did it, yes. But she has turned herself into something much better and that is respected. But always leading an entitled life (as Chris also has done, not Madeleine) is not admired. IKEAs Ingvar Kamprad making money is admired because he worked up from nothing, but making money when you've always had money is not something admired in Sweden. For better or worse.
So Mr O'Neill did nothing? While he was eating out of his nose, he obtained a baccalaureate in Sankt-Gallen (Switzerland), while he was snoring in his bed he graduated at Boston University and while partying all the way he accidentally obtained a MBA in New York? Just purely because of his pretty eyes and not because of his hard work, his talents, his commitment and his capacities, he became a partner of and Head of Research at Noster Capital and he only worked at Rotschild and at Steinberg because he is daddy and mummy's brave boy?

Sure.... It sounds like it is a crime in Sweden to pursue a career and to explore your capacities to the best....
  #112  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:20 AM
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Except that the children will have to be raised in Sweden, or else they will be removed from the line of succession. I don't think Madeleine or the King would like the latter to happen.

I may sound a little harsh, but the way I see it, either Chris agrees to move permanently to Sweden at some point, e.g. by the time the kids start elementary school, or he and Madeleine will have to divorce. They can't have it both ways if Madeleine and her children are to remain members of Royal House.
If he does, people will say 'why didn't he do that in the first place'? He didnt want swedish citizenship or a title and then he choses to live in Sweden all of a sudden? It's odd to say at last. And we've had this topic before, becoming a resident he will have to pay taxes so people will find out how much money he makes. He will be under full scrutiny in Sweden, travel a lot for business, people will monitor how many days he'll actually spend in Sweden that is so much smaller 'petit bourgeois' than London or NYC.

IMO the best solution would have been for Madeleine to live abroad as Mrs O Neill, find herself a meaningful purpose and decline a title for her daughter.
  #113  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:23 AM
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Why on earth would she have to give up her royal title? Many other royals have only a few engagements each year and got to keep theirs too. The royal status is unrelated to the amount of engagements one has, otherwise many royals should have been 'degraded' already. .Or should she give it up because she moved abroad? The whole idea of a monarchy is that it is hereditary. Again: I really can not see what is so problematic about this issue.

Why the king made Leonore an HRH is not known. Like Juliana (who failed to achieve what CG did, but tried nontheless) he may have liked the idea that all his grand children were 'equal'. Like with king Albert II it may have to do with a wish not to make a distinction between male and female members of the family. He may have wanted to secure the succession as CP has no children yet and the CPss has only one for now. It may have been Madeleine's wish. Etc. etc. etc. We simply do not know. But to assume the worst and think it MUST be that spoiled, jetsetting, lazy and generally awful Madeleine with her foreign husband, who is the evil genious & who bullied her father into doing this is a bit rich.
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  #114  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
As I said before. Entitlement is much worse in the Swedish eye than some scandals. If she still did it, yes. But she has turned herself into something much better and that is respected. But always leading an entitled life (as Chris also has done, not Madeleine) is not admired. IKEAs Ingvar Kamprad making money is admired because he worked up from nothing, but making money when you've always had money is not something admired in Sweden. For better or worse.
I agree with you about all of this. I'm not saying that I like the way it is, but it's accurately descibed.
  #115  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:33 AM
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Why on earth would she have to give up her royal title?
Sorry for misunderstanding - Madeleine is a princess and remains a princess, even as Mrs O Neill. I didnt mean to suggest that she gives up her title. I only find Leonore's title unneccessary.

Quote:
But to assume the worst and think it MUST be that spoiled, jetsetting, lazy and generally awful Madeleine with her foreign husband, who is the evil genious & who bullied her father into doing this is a bit rich.
I never assumed that Madeleine bullied her father to give Leonore a title?
  #116  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
So Mr O'Neill did nothing? While he was eating out of his nose, he obtained a baccalaureate in Sankt-Gallen (Switzerland), while he was snoring in his bed he graduated at Boston University and while partying all the way he accidentally obtained a MBA in New York? Just purely because of his pretty eyes and not because of his hard work, his talents, his commitment and his capacities, he became a partner of and Head of Research at Noster Capital and he only worked at Rotschild and at Steinberg because he is daddy and mummy's brave boy?

Sure.... It sounds like it is a crime in Sweden to pursue a career and to explore your capacities to the best....
I'm not saying he didn't. Just that those facts are not "availible" to the public. It is available if you look for it, but not in the everyday conversation. I feel sorry for Chris, just wanted to show some insight into why M&C is seen as worse than S&CP.
  #117  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:40 AM
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Ah, on that we agree then, Duke. As I mentioned earlier I think it is a healthy kind of risk managment to limit the group of royals to the core ones only, namely the king, queen, their children and the children of the eldest child. IMHO it would have been better if the children of both CP as Madeleine would be HH Prince(ss) Bernadotte. Belgium will be stuck with 50 princes and princesses of Belgium in the next generation under the present laws. But that is a whole other discussion I suppose.

My point was that we do not know why the king decided to make his grand daughter an HRH but there are a lot of possibilities, not necessarily selfish ones.

Quote:
I never assumed that Madeleine bullied her father to give Leonore a title?
I never said or even thought that you did and was not referring to you but to the perception in general. I apologise if my post gave the wrong impression but as it was in reply to your post I can see why it did .
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  #118  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:43 AM
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Regarding Madeleines and Leonores titles: I'm 99% sure that it's the king who pushed for this. The swedish monarchy has been in a situation just a generation ago when the line to the throne was very sparsely populated. In fact, it was just him.


Estelle and Leonore are still the only children in their generation. I honestly think that Madeleine would be glad to give up the HRH, both for herself and her Children, but as long as there are no other kids around, they will keep Leonore there.
  #119  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:47 AM
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[...] the reality is that Madeleine does not seem to be ready to give up her royal status [...]
Why should Madeleine have to give up her royal status? She is a fully legal male line descendant of the House of Bernadotte, a Princess of Sweden by birth, daughter of a King, sister to a future Queen, aunt to another future Queen, a Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland even. That status is not connected to the level of activity.

Note that the disabled Princess Cornelie-Cecilie of Prussia (sister of the head of the House of Prussia) and the disabled Prince François d'Orléans (the Comte de Clermont, eldest son of the Head of the House of Orléans) will never be able to perform any official or representative act but they have, enjoy and bear the title of a Prince (Princess) and the prefix of a Royal Highness all their life long. It is wrong to connect being royal or not with making a choice for a public or a private life.
  #120  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
As I said before. Entitlement is much worse in the Swedish eye than some scandals. If she still did it, yes. But she has turned herself into something much better and that is respected. But always leading an entitled life (as Chris also has done, not Madeleine) is not admired. IKEAs Ingvar Kamprad making money is admired because he worked up from nothing, but making money when you've always had money is not something admired in Sweden. For better or worse.
I think the press could ask how she maintains herself. I am sure CP does, since she does mostly charity work. They could dig up more about her charity project. We dont know how much she works. It's all very vague. A lot of people I know share the same questions. But they just question Chris' position.
As Duc_et_pair said Chris studied, built up his career, he might have enjoyed more opportunities, but still he worked.

My point the very same questions they ask C&M, they could ask CP&S.

Quote:
IMO the best solution would have been for Madeleine to live abroad as Mrs O Neill, find herself a meaningful purpose and decline a title for her daughter.
Yes, but at the moment Leonore is the spare. The best compromise would be living in London and doing a llittle more.
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