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  #81  
Old 02-10-2015, 11:52 PM
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I fear that the intense media pressure will eventually doom this marriage,and I'm sorry about that. I have always sensed Chris's temper regarding the media bubbling just under the surface. No, he did not pay his taxes on time, and she's not a very hard worker, but I don't think they're horrible people. When the media can't find anything to write about, they make up things. It's untenable.
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  #82  
Old 02-11-2015, 01:32 AM
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Very good points, but wow, don't know what's going on here except that their is constant nagging and criticism of Madeleine who, let's be fair here, is pregnant. Perhaps the reason she didn't attend the funeral was that she was not feeling well. Perhaps fatigue had frozen her smile on the visit to her Duchy and she saved all the smiles for those who live there? We don't know!

Victoria and Daniel seem to have a degree of control over their interaction with the media, but I believe that is in large part give and take and a degree of willingness for the media to "keep them sweet".
It would have looked better if Madeleine's attendance to the funeral of a family friend would have been put to the calendar, to show that she is going to attend. If she then would have had to cancel due to her pregnancy, the court could have said that the princess is very sorry that she didn't feel well enough to attend. Now one sees it that she didn't want to attend at a funeral of a family friend. It doesn't look good, especially when the press pointed out that Victoria and Daniel cancelled their official visit to Jämtland to attend at the funeral.
Despite of her pregnancy, Madeleine could attend at the 7-hour long Nobel ceremonies, the king's dinner for the Laureates and at the solemn gathering of the Swedish Academy, all white tie events.

Madeleine is not a teenager anymore, she is 32-year old woman, who can think herself. She could have attended at some short event of the Holocaust memorial day to show that she does the "normal" work of the royal family, not just family celebrations and glamorous events. She has to get out of the cherry picking image.

That Victoria and Daniel have good relationship with the media, is because they are working with the media. For instance, Daniel gave interviews to large group of media at least on 12 of his solo work days last year.
And last year Victoria got a lot of positive press because she worked normally although she had crutches.

That Victoria and Daniel are doing a good job, isn't negative for Madeleine. She should just find her own role and own way to do her job as a member of the Royal Family. For Carl Philip it is the military events, sport, art, the cuisine and now also dyslexia. And Madeleine should find a way to deal with the media too.

And Chris should stay out of any financial trouble.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:47 AM
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Why would the attendance of a private funeral be on the official calendar? It would not make sense at all.

Is the cherry picking image one that the princess has in Sweden or is it as you perceive her official duties? The comment of her attending the Nobel prizes during her 1st pregnancy while not attending a private funeral during her 2nd pregnancy supposedly is proof of this cherry picking? I am sure that you are familiar with the fact that each pregnancy is different, and sometimes each day during a pregnancy can be different.

As she is not a teenager any longer & has not been one for quite some time - she will understand that she has to comply with the wishes of the court. As the court had prince Daniel attending a Holocaust event in Sweden, it would not be wise to send Madeleine there too, or for her to pay a spontanious visit -as you imply that she should have done. I am sure if she went that some would have blamed her for 'stealing attention' away from the Holy Trinity of Haga.

The risk of being in business is that you may get into financial trouble, that is one of the reasons why they earn more money. If staying out of financial trouble was a requirement the court should have forbidden the wedding to a businessman and made sure she married a librarian.
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  #84  
Old 02-11-2015, 03:00 AM
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It would have looked better if Madeleine's attendance to the funeral of a family friend would have been put to the calendar, to show that she is going to attend. If she then would have had to cancel due to her pregnancy, the court could have said that the princess is very sorry that she didn't feel well enough to attend. Now one sees it that she didn't want to attend at a funeral of a family friend. It doesn't look good, especially when the press pointed out that Victoria and Daniel cancelled their official visit to Jämtland to attend at the funeral.
Despite of her pregnancy, Madeleine could attend at the 7-hour long Nobel ceremonies, the king's dinner for the Laureates and at the solemn gathering of the Swedish Academy, all white tie events.

Madeleine is not a teenager anymore, she is 32-year old woman, who can think herself. She could have attended at some short event of the Holocaust memorial day to show that she does the "normal" work of the royal family, not just family celebrations and glamorous events. She has to get out of the cherry picking image.

That Victoria and Daniel have good relationship with the media, is because they are working with the media. For instance, Daniel gave interviews to large group of media at least on 12 of his solo work days last year.
And last year Victoria got a lot of positive press because she worked normally although she had crutches.

That Victoria and Daniel are doing a good job, isn't negative for Madeleine. She should just find her own role and own way to do her job as a member of the Royal Family. For Carl Philip it is the military events, sport, art, the cuisine and now also dyslexia. And Madeleine should find a way to deal with the media too.

And Chris should stay out of any financial trouble.
I've never been pregnant but from what I understand from friends and family members is each pregnancy is different. So perhaps standing for 7 hours at a Nobel ceremony for her first pregnancy wasn't a big deal but she wasn't feel well enough to attend the funeral of a family friend. Does she need to produce a doctor's note to get a pass

Furthermore, Chris is an investment banker...of course one wants to stay out of financial trouble particularly if you want to make money for your clients and/or commission for your self. I don't think anyone seeks financial trouble. That's a rather odd statement to make IMO.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:03 AM
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I think that if she can confirms her attendance to an event and then cancels last minute than the media would be right in critisising her.....even if she cancelled her Gavle event the criticism would have been called for....but all this halabu for not giving an interview is just stupid IMO ....she did visit her province she posed for photos, she met the local children and organisations and that shows that she cares not talking about it and again she has given many interviews her most recent ones being to SVT and glamour magazine its not like there isn't anything....besides she does have 'her calling' just like the Queen she is very passionate about children in need suffering injustice her work with childhood, Minstoradag , and other organisations prove this as do her visits to China, South Africa, Brazil , Taxes, Ukraine and other counties
  #86  
Old 02-11-2015, 03:10 AM
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I think that if she can confirms her attendance to an event and then cancels last minute than the media would be right in critisising her.....even if she cancelled her Gavle event the criticism would have been called for....but all this halabu for not giving an interview is just stupid IMO ....she did visit her province she posed for photos, she met the local children and organisations and that shows that she cares not talking about it and again she has given many interviews her most recent ones being to SVT and glamour magazine its not like there isn't anything....besides she does have 'her calling' just like the Queen she is very passionate about children in need suffering injustice her work with childhood, Minstoradag , and other organisations prove this as do her visits to China, South Africa, Brazil , Taxis, Ukraine and other counties
Sorry I disagree. If you make a commitment to attend something and if something legitimate happens and you can't attend...as long as you give ample notice...you don't deserve to be criticized for it. I recognize that sometimes a lot goes into planning an event, but this was the funeral of a friend. If she is has a legitimate reason for not going [i.e. she is not well because she is pregnant] than she gets a pass. It's not like she canceled her appearance and was caught chilling at the beach or the mall. Maybe...despite the fact that she has a nanny...her daughter got sick and she wanted to stay home with her. Would that be okay....
Do we want her to jeopardize the health of her baby or herself because people wont give her a break.

She is not perfect and has certainly straddled the line but as we don't know why she canceled, if she didn't personally called the family to let them know she wouldn't be in attendance but they were in her thoughts and prayers, than we should cut her some slack.
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  #87  
Old 02-11-2015, 03:44 AM
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Sorry I disagree. If you make a commitment to attend something and if something legitimate happens and you can't attend...as long as you give ample notice...you don't deserve to be criticized for it. I recognize that sometimes a lot goes into planning an event, but this was the funeral of a friend. If she is has a legitimate reason for not going [i.e. she is not well because she is pregnant] than she gets a pass. It's not like she canceled her appearance and was caught chilling at the beach or the mall. Maybe...despite the fact that she has a nanny...her daughter got sick and she wanted to stay home with her. Would that be okay....
Do we want her to jeopardize the health of her baby or herself because people wont give her a break.

She is not perfect and has certainly straddled the line but as we don't know why she canceled, if she didn't personally called the family to let them know she wouldn't be in attendance but they were in her thoughts and prayers, than we should cut her some slack.
Yes your comment is very valid, perhaps I didn't express myself clearly I meant that if they make her calender full for the sake of appearances and then she cancels them repeatedly there would be a lot of criticism and perhaps it would be justified, therefore if if they add tmrws event today instead of 3 weeks ago there'll be a greater chance of her attending and therefore a better way of the dealing with the media ....Ofc if an emergency does come up her top priority is her health and her family
  #88  
Old 02-11-2015, 04:00 AM
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Yes your comment is very valid, perhaps I didn't express myself clearly I meant that if they make her calender full for the sake of appearances and then she cancels them repeatedly there would be a lot of criticism and perhaps it would be justified, therefore if if they add tmrws event today instead of 3 weeks ago there'll be a greater chance of her attending and therefore a better way of the dealing with the media ....Ofc if an emergency does come up her top priority is her health and her family
And yes, that makes perfect sense.

Madeleine like many royal spare is in a precarious position living in a social media dominated world.

She is young, rich, pampered and there is a lot of interest in her...what she does...what she wears...who she marries...does she earn her keep. I get that if she receives money from the Swedish taxpayer than the Swedish tax payers should get their moneys worth. Yeah, it wouldn't hurt to do the odd interview or two but let's face it....she doesn't like press..and honestly, I am not sure if I blame her.

She marries someone who doesn't want a title [he just wants her], doesn't asked to be supported by the Swedish tax payer, has a little financial issues and somehow he is being treated like he is Bernie Madoff and he has stolen millions of dollars.

I do agree with others have said about Chris. He thought he could separate the personal Madeleine from the princess Madeleine and remain a private person. Why wouldn't it work...it worked for the Haga Princesses. Except they didn't live in a dominated social media where everyone feels the need to comment about everything and know everything.

But here is the main thing about Madeleine and Chris. She is NOT Victoria and Christopher is NOT Daniel. Victoria is the future Queen of Sweden not Madeleine. So this constant references what Victoria and Daniel do and/or say makes no difference. They have different roles and they are different people. Daniel is the future Prince Consort of Sweden..Christopher is just a guy who married the Princess of Sweden. They have accepted it....I don't know what its so hard for others to do so the same. Her essential purpose is to support the Swedish monarch, whether its her father or in the future, her sister. I wouldn't be surprised if Madeleine isn't/wasn't counting on the interest in her life to lessen. I imagine it will in the next 10 to 20 years...I hope she and Chris can hold on until then.
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:00 AM
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It would have looked better if Madeleine's attendance to the funeral of a family friend would have been put to the calendar, to show that she is going to attend. If she then would have had to cancel due to her pregnancy, the court could have said that the princess is very sorry that she didn't feel well enough to attend. Now one sees it that she didn't want to attend at a funeral of a family friend. It doesn't look good, especially when the press pointed out that Victoria and Daniel cancelled their official visit to Jämtland to attend at the funeral.
Despite of her pregnancy, Madeleine could attend at the 7-hour long Nobel ceremonies, the king's dinner for the Laureates and at the solemn gathering of the Swedish Academy, all white tie events.

Madeleine is not a teenager anymore, she is 32-year old woman, who can think herself. She could have attended at some short event of the Holocaust memorial day to show that she does the "normal" work of the royal family, not just family celebrations and glamorous events. She has to get out of the cherry picking image.

That Victoria and Daniel have good relationship with the media, is because they are working with the media. For instance, Daniel gave interviews to large group of media at least on 12 of his solo work days last year.
And last year Victoria got a lot of positive press because she worked normally although she had crutches.

That Victoria and Daniel are doing a good job, isn't negative for Madeleine. She should just find her own role and own way to do her job as a member of the Royal Family. For Carl Philip it is the military events, sport, art, the cuisine and now also dyslexia. And Madeleine should find a way to deal with the media too.

And Chris should stay out of any financial trouble.
I agree. People feel that Madeleine is a princess, but she is only in it half-hearted. She's cherry-picking, taking the best out of both worlds. Chris is clearly not as media-savy as he thought he was and he is out of his depth handling the royal matter that he now has to deal with as private person.

They need a clear strategy for their lives and for the media to communicate it, otherwise I am afraid I have to agree with GG and there will be an longterm damage to the marriage.
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:16 AM
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It seems they have a clear strategy:

- Chris is continuing his business. He refused a title because of that. It doesn't get much bclearer than that.

-Madeleine has the occuassional public duty -not much less than her brother BTW.

I can't see what should be more clear

==

How is she 'cherry picking'? Or how is her approach different than that of f.e. Prince Constantijn or his wife,
who also 'cherry pick' the causes that interest them.

Quite frankly, the main reason why the princess is critisized seems to be because the press and some fans need a bad sister next to the good sister, the crown princess. Of course Madeleine married an 'evil' banker, a foreigner no less, and she moved abroad (how dare she). So she has become an easy target.

Why she actually wants to go back to Sweden is more of a mystery than why she doesn't.
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:34 AM
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The thing is that I don't think the problem is what M&C are actually doing (or not doing), but the perception of them. They desperately need a good PR-person who can help them out of this mess.


One thing that I think would help a lot is if they would start giving interviews, both as a couple and one on one. They don't talk to the media, and that means that they leave the field wide open to speculation. Just take a look at how well the TV-interview with Carl Philip (in "Hellenius hörna") a month ago was percived. There is a lot of things you can say about CP and Sofia, but they can handle media. I'm sure that the money M&C spend on a PR-person would be money well spent.
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:38 AM
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I wish that the entire Swedish RF would stop talking to the media for the most part TBH. This PR startegy has resulted in embarrassing moments and toe curvingly shallow 'tid bits' . The press department of the Swedish palace is notorious for their incompetence. Esp. Tennert was a disaster.
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  #93  
Old 02-11-2015, 05:50 AM
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To me its not clear at all and the choices of lifestyle (leaving Sweden but attending glamour events) do not help. They used to fly in from NYC to attend high profile events, the rest (the hard daytoday royal work: no thank you). How can Chris be a private person if he is married to a working HRH princess AND has a daughter who becomes HRH? He attends photoshoots, gives interviews when it suits, how can he think he will be left alone with the rest? He is not the first person to find out that he cannot dictate the press when he would like to be in the spotlight and when he wants to be left alone, labelling yourself a 'private person' does not do the trick when royal perks come in handy.
I can totally understand that such an attitude rubs people the wrong way, especially when stuff like not paying taxes comes up, it's an invitation to dig deeper and to gossip.

I agree that others get off lightly, especially CP and his fiancee, but that is another topic. Maddie has always played the luxus princess, loving the glamour but hard work not so much, getting married to a supposed high profile banker, doing a stupid video to announce it, interviews: no thank you, and with a lot of drama and tantrums inbetween (the cheating fiancee, escape to NY). It's people's perception of her that now comes back like a boomerang, and Chris has always had a managable popularity rating.
  #94  
Old 02-11-2015, 06:01 AM
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Chris is criticized and chased by the media/press/paparazzi because he has a major fault: he is and ordinary but rich guy... That's incredible
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  #95  
Old 02-11-2015, 06:06 AM
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Well,Constantijn (the only prince in a simular situation) usually attend the glamour events in The Netherlands (prinsjesdag, various celebrations) and one or two others. Nobody complains and most probably are happy that he has his own carreer and has a productive life. He chose to live abroad for his study/work too: in Paris, London and now in Brussels -after the birth of his 1st child.

Madeleine is moving to Stockholm/Europe after the birth of her 1st child.

I do not see the glamour in the visit to the Duchy btw.

Where did Chris say that he expected to lead a completely private life? AFAIK he accompanies his wife to Sweden on a regular basis and is present during the most important events. He even had a word with the press after the birth of his daughter - something no Dutch prince except the present king- ever did. If the Swedish people expect him to give up his carreer and live of the money of his wife perhaps they should start offering Madeleine and him a salary. However, unemployment may not seem like an attractive scenario to him & I do not think it is very beneficial for a persons state-of-mind either. Also it may be beneficial that he has his own carreer as it prevents the impression that the entire family is living from tax payers money.

The tax issue was explained and blown out of proportion.

I think the best thing for the spares to do, is to find a job and carreer of themselves and to attend only a few official duties. That is what Constantijn & Friso did, it is what Madeleine is doing now, it is what the Lux. princes do and it probably is something we will see more in the next generation. In Belgium f.e. it seems pretty clear that the younger children of the king will be expected to find their own way in life. I think that the British RF may be the only one where this course of action is not the wisest approach, as due to the enormous media interest it will be impossible for any carreer path not to be heavily critisized.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:10 AM
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Thank you for your post Marengo!. And I agree: Chris refused a title but he has never said he wanted to have a life detached from the swedish royal house. They can never win! Media are exasperated because Chris ingnore them and doesn't flaunt them!
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:23 AM
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Well,Constantijn (the only prince in a simular situation) usually attend the glamour events in The Netherlands (prinsjesdag, various celebrations) and one or two others. Nobody complains and most probably are happy that he has his own carreer and has a productive life. He chose to live abroad for his study/work too: in Paris, London and now in Brussels -after the birth of his 1st child.

Madeleine is moving to Stockholm/Europe after the birth of her 1st child.

I do not see the glamour in the visit to the Duchy btw.

Where did Chris say that he expected to lead a completely private life? AFAIK he accompanies his wife to Sweden on a regular basis and is present during the most important events. He even had a word with the press after the birth of his daughter - something no Dutch prince except the present king- ever did. If the Swedish people expect him to give up his carreer and live of the money of his wife perhaps they should start offering Madeleine and him a salary. However, unemployment may not seem like an attractive scenario to him & I do not think it is very beneficial for a persons state-of-mind either. Also it may be beneficial that he has his own carreer as it prevents the impression that the entire family is living from tax payers money.

The tax issue was explained and blown out of proportion.

I think the best thing for the spares is to find a job and carreer of themselves and to attend only a few official duties. That is what Constantijn & Friso did, it is what Madeleine is doing now, it is what the Lux. princes do and it probably is something we will see more in the next generation. In Belgium f.e. it seems pretty clear that the younger children of the king will be expected to find their own way in life.
I think we cannot compare the way of Constantijn and Madeleine on a professional level. Constantijn has an impressive professional business career and is a hard worker, he was never perceived as 'glamorous royal' and when he comes in to attend high profile events, people perceive it rather as duty and service to the country because career-wise, he had better things to do. He lives abroad, his children are not HRHs.

I can't say anything similar about Madeleine, I'm afraid. She did a bit of childhood because it came in handy in NCY, but she never pursued any kind of professional career in a topic of choice or showed any determination.

Chris wanted to remain a private person by declining a title and a citizenship, only showing up when necessary. It didnt work out. After taxgate, the court wanted to show some appeasement and Chris joined his wife, what only attracted even more critizism.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:41 AM
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In real estate it's "location, location, loaction". For M&C, it's "perception, perception, perception". Or at least it should be.


I'll say it again: they desperately need a good PR-person to work with them. The PR department at the Royal Court here in Sweden hasn't been working well for years and years. They can't expect much help from there.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:43 AM
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I don't think they should have their own PR person. Multiple captains on one ship may be counter productive. For the life of me I can not see what is wrong with the present sollution, it seems an ideal one to me. Both for Sweden as for the people involved. In any case, they can either quietly proceed in the present way and wait for this negativity to blow over -it usually does. Or they can decide to give an 'up yours' and stay away completely. Considering the hostility that mainly seems to steam from jealousy and xenophobia I think the latter should be a tempting option.


In response to Duke-of-Marmalade:

You are correct that the carreers of Pss Madeleine and Prince Constantijn are very different and uncomparable. But my point was that the situation that they are in is simular. Both moved abroad, attend the most important events + a few others in their home country and have found their own way in life. Constantijn has a nice carreer now, Madeleine has her (part time?) work for the World Childhood and seems to be staying at home, but her husband does have his own carreer.

I really don't see how Chris's situation didnt work out. Because of a few nasty articles in the Swedish press?

What do you think would have been best for him to do? Drop his carreer, become and HRH and have the occassional public duty like his brother-in-law and live from the money of his wife? And have these air headed small talks with the gutter press, that they seem so fond of in Sweden 'my in-laws welcomed me with open arms' ; 'Leonore said "papa" for the first time this week, woot woot'? These air headed chit chats that the Swedish press department & consequently the RF excell in, have done the monarchy a lot of harm IMHO. No other RF does them and it reduces the royal family to a glorified Big Brother show. It may be temporarily good for the image of some members (to be) but in the long run it is very, very harmful.

I really don't think Sweden is large enough to need 8 full time royals, there simply isn't enough that warrants royal attention. That only works in the UK. Even CP seems to have difficulties in getting an agenda that has more than 1 public duty per week.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:54 AM
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You are correct that the carreers of Pss Madeleine and Prince Constantijn are very different anduncomparable. But my point was that the situation that they are in is simular. Both moved abroad, attend the most important events + a few others in their home country and are expected to find their own way in life. Constantijn has a nice carreer now, Madeleine has her (part time?) work for the World Childhood and seems to be staying at home partly, but her husband does have his own carreer.
I see your point, but I feel that people can see a difference between somebody who moves abroad to built his own life and to pursue a professional career that comes first and royal life comes when it fits, and somebody who wants to be a princess and doesnt really have a career and wants to be left alone of paparazzi. It's the typical celebrity problem that never applied to Constantijn.

Quote:
I really don't see how Chris's situation didnt work out. Because of a few nasty articles in the Swedish press?
I think ultimately he underetimated the tabloid press on Madeleines tail and that he would be interesting as a person. Then, losing your temper with photographers puts you on their favourite black list.

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What do you think would have been best for him to do? Drop his carreer, become and HRH and have the occassional public duty like his brother-in-law? I really don't think Sweden is large enough to need 8 full time royals, there simply isn't enough that warrants royal attention. That only works in the UK. Even CP seems to have difficulties in getting an agenda that has more than 1 public duty per week.
Its difficult to say but the thing is: you have to be black or white, fish or flesh. You cannot change around when it suits you, do this and not that, be private or royal when it suits. I feel sorry for Chris, because I honestly think that he is out of his depth and never thought it would come to this.
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