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  #521  
Old 06-11-2015, 11:56 AM
eya eya is offline
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Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
It's not just his wife that is a Swedish princess, but his daughter is HRH Princess Leonore of Sweden, and his next child will also be a HRH Prince or Princess of Sweden. These children will need to speak Swedish and be primarily raised in Sweden from school-age, so at some point Chris will have to move to Sweden, unless he wants to let his wife and children live there alone.
I'm afraid something like that be happen.
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  #522  
Old 06-11-2015, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
No matter how busy Chris and Madeleine are with work and home life and birthdays and attending weddings and delivering babies, they should be able to manage to keep the Palace PR people updated about Chris' travel plans by email. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to do that.
I agree. But for some reason I think that they have a mindset that they don't have too. Not sure why I think that (since i don't know either one of them) they just come across that way to me. Madeleine is either going to have to go all in without Chris or she is going to have to step away from engagements in Sweden altogether. They for sure need to make family's PR department more aware of what is going on though.
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  #523  
Old 06-11-2015, 12:45 PM
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JMO but I think it's about time Chris puts his foot down and defines his role within the family. Once she gives birth, Princess Madeleine should be more consistent in attending events in Sweden, become more visible, be seen to actually work more. It should be well-established that she is the princess with the royal duties while her husband is a completely private citizen.

Chris should stop picking events he could attend and just not go to anything that's a public event where he can be asked to pose for official photos. Enough with what's "expected" of him just because he married a princess. They should be treated as individuals and not as a team when it comes to their "duties" in the royal family. It's all about defining things according to what works for their peculiar situation and having an efficient PR team that delivers the message clearly. He has a career that pays for his and his family's needs and not exactly basic lifestyle. Sweden doesn't pay for any of those. Of course he should attend family events but he should do so as a private individual. Again, he should not be in any posed photos that will be released to the public especially in relation to state events. People may see him if Madeleine, for instance, shares photos on Facebook of them as a family, doing family things in their private time. Just a thought. It's Sweden, the pioneer of all things progressive, supposedly. It could work.
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  #524  
Old 06-11-2015, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
It's not just his wife that is a Swedish princess, but his daughter is HRH Princess Leonore of Sweden, and his next child will also be a HRH Prince or Princess of Sweden. These children will need to speak Swedish and be primarily raised in Sweden from school-age, so at some point Chris will have to move to Sweden, unless he wants to let his wife and children live there alone.
That is the big question. In five years time when this question become really relevant, we will know whether V&D will have a child more. (If not, we may begin to accept that Estelle will be their only child).
But in five years Sofia and CP should have at least one child (if possible) and in that case, there really is no reason for Chris and Madeleine to move to Sweden, because then there will already be an heir and at least one spare at hand.
And why should they resettle to Sweden just so that Leonore and X can remain in the line succession, when they are in all likelihood redundant anyway?

Only if V&D have no more children and S&CP don't have any (healthy) children either, does it become a necessity for Madeleine and Chris to move to Sweden, whether they like it or not.
  #525  
Old 06-11-2015, 02:09 PM
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My often repeated opinion is that as soon CP has a child the O'Neills will see to it that their children are out of the succession faster than the blink of an eye.


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  #526  
Old 06-11-2015, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
My often repeated opinion is that as soon CP has a child the O'Neills will see to it that their children are out of the succession faster than the blink of an eye.
Totally agree.
  #527  
Old 06-11-2015, 02:15 PM
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But won't that involve stripping them of their titles? Why give them titles in the first place only to take them away when Carl-Philip has children? Madeleine and the king always knew this was going to happen(CP marries and starts a family)

Spilled milk can't be put back in the bottle.
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  #528  
Old 06-11-2015, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
That is the big question. In five years time when this question become really relevant, we will know whether V&D will have a child more. (If not, we may begin to accept that Estelle will be their only child).
But in five years Sofia and CP should have at least one child (if possible) and in that case, there really is no reason for Chris and Madeleine to move to Sweden, because then there will already be an heir and at least one spare at hand.
And why should they resettle to Sweden just so that Leonore and X can remain in the line succession, when they are in all likelihood redundant anyway?

Only if V&D have no more children and S&CP don't have any (healthy) children either, does it become a necessity for Madeleine and Chris to move to Sweden, whether they like it or not.


My understanding was that in order to be an HRH they had to be raised in Sweden. But can they keep the HRH and remove themselves from the line of succession, thereby living where they want in the world?
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  #529  
Old 06-11-2015, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
My understanding was that in order to be an HRH they had to be raised in Sweden. But can they keep the HRH and remove themselves from the line of succession, thereby living where they want in the world?
Why not? If it had been decided from the very beginning that Leonore should not be in the line of succession she surely could have a royal title of some sort anyway?

Not sure how things work in Sweden, but once Leonore and X turn eighteen, who is to decide that sorry, they can't be in the line of succession?
The Monarch? The Parliament?

I think it will be more realistic that Leonore and X will keep their titles, but de facto not be considered in the line of succession regardless of their titles. "And then we'll talk no more about that".
Especially as it unlikely Leonore and X will ever be required to stand in for the Monarch.
  #530  
Old 06-11-2015, 04:19 PM
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Madeleine and Chris: Media Negativity and Public Opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Why not? If it had been decided from the very beginning that Leonore should not be in the line of succession she surely could have a royal title of some sort anyway?

Not sure how things work in Sweden, but once Leonore and X turn eighteen, who is to decide that sorry, they can't be in the line of succession?
The Monarch? The Parliament?

I think it will be more realistic that Leonore and X will keep their titles, but de facto not be considered in the line of succession regardless of their titles. "And then we'll talk no more about that".
Especially as it unlikely Leonore and X will ever be required to stand in for the Monarch.

They don't need to have titles at all to be in the line of succession.

The swedish constitution describes who are included in the succession and who aren't. All descendants of Carl XVI Gustaf will be included in the line of succession. If anyone renounces their right to the throne it is the government who decides to lift someone out from the line of succession. I really can't imagine that the King would actively try to throw any of his grandchildren out of the line of succession.

I understand that it is a very important question for both Madeleine and the King that her children gets titles and are equally treated with the children of Victoria and Carl-Philip and that they are not known as Mr and Mrs O'Neill.

We will see what the future holds. I can imagine that they will discuss this matter again further down the road if both Victoria and Carl-Philip will have (more) children.
As it is know Leonore is practically the Heiress Presumptive to Estelle and is needed in the line of succession but i would be very surprised if neither Victoria or Carl-Philip will have more children.
  #531  
Old 06-11-2015, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Why not? If it had been decided from the very beginning that Leonore should not be in the line of succession she surely could have a royal title of some sort anyway?

Not sure how things work in Sweden, but once Leonore and X turn eighteen, who is to decide that sorry, they can't be in the line of succession?
The Monarch? The Parliament?

I think it will be more realistic that Leonore and X will keep their titles, but de facto not be considered in the line of succession regardless of their titles. "And then we'll talk no more about that".
Especially as it unlikely Leonore and X will ever be required to stand in for the Monarch.
My point is, I thought it was a requirement to get the HRH to be educated in Sweden. If so, the die was cast on where the family would live when that decision was made.
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  #532  
Old 06-11-2015, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
My point is, I thought it was a requirement to get the HRH to be educated in Sweden. If so, the die was cast on where the family would live when that decision was made.

In principle, all (male and female) descendants of King Carl XVI Gustaf are in the line of succession to the Swedish throne (descendants from former kings who do not also descend from Carl XVI Gustaf are excluded).

There are a few explicit situations, however, in which a descendant from King Carl XVI Gustaf can be legally excluded from the succession:

  1. If he or she marries without the consent of the Swedish government, which can be requested only by the monarch (in theory, the monarch can therefore exclude someone from the succession simply by not asking the government to consent to that person's marriage).
  2. If he or she becomes the "sovereign ruler" of a foreign country without the consent of the Swedish monarch and the Swedish parliament.
  3. If he or she does not profess the Lutheran faith.
Conditions (1) and (2) above exclude not only the person falling under those categories, but also all his/her descendants.



In addition, the Act of Succession also says that "princes of the Royal House" must be brought up "within the realm" (i.e. in Sweden). The Act of Succession does not explicitly say that not being brought up in the realm triggers loss of succession rights, but the current interpretation, confirmed by the Royal Court when Leonore was born, is that it does.


On the issue of titles, in the past, princes of the royal house who were excluded from the succession because of the old "unequal marriage" clause in the Act of Succession, e.g. Carl Gustaf's uncles, were also stripped of their princely titles. I must assume that would still be the case if one of Carl Gustaf's descendants were also excluded for any the reasons listed above.


ICL - Sweden - The Act of Succession
  #533  
Old 06-11-2015, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
My point is, I thought it was a requirement to get the HRH to be educated in Sweden. If so, the die was cast on where the family would live when that decision was made.
Yes, but surely that is a detail that can be circumnavigated, depending on circumstances.

Say Sweden was occupied for ten years by a foreign power and the SRF went into exile. If the legislation was interpreted strictly that would mean Estelle couldn't become queen when the SRF returned after the occupation. So there must be room for interpretation both ways.
I.e. Leonore and X can remain in line for the throne, just in case, even though they live abroad.
Alternatively, they can retain their titles and status, even if they de facto, "give up" their place in line of succession by not going to school and growing up in Sweden.

As I understood from Hans-Rickard's post it's ultimately up to the government/Parliament to interpret and decide whether the requirements have been met or not.
And that will IMO only be relevant should V&D not have any more children and S&CP at the same time not having any. Because then there will be a serious shortage of SRF members in the next generation!

I can imagine that the legislation in that case will interpreted in a way to mean that if Leonore and X go to school in Sweden for one year and they speak fluent Swedish and have visited Sweden regularly throughout their lives that will be deemed "sufficient".
And they will after all have ample warning to prepare for that eventuality, unless (heaven forbid) Estelle and her parents should suddenly perish in an accident.

ADDED: My prediction would be that Leonore and X are and will remain in the line of succession, unless it for whatever reason is decided they are not. And why should anyone want to do that?
  #534  
Old 06-13-2015, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
My often repeated opinion is that as soon CP has a child the O'Neills will see to it that their children are out of the succession faster than the blink of an eye.


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I think so too.
  #535  
Old 08-13-2015, 06:31 AM
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Gossip press attacks again, on the cover of Hänt Extra
Photo proof
One betrayal too much
Madeleine is tired of Chris
http://www.allerbutiken.se/Global/Covers/HEX.jpg
  #536  
Old 08-13-2015, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Gossip press attacks again, on the cover of Hänt Extra
Photo proof
One betrayal too much
Madeleine is tired of Chris
http://www.allerbutiken.se/Global/Covers/HEX.jpg
Is the "photo proof" that little pic where she's checking her mobile while presumably sitting opposite him?
If it is, the press are really desperate for story...
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  #537  
Old 08-13-2015, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Gossip press attacks again, on the cover of Hänt Extra
Photo proof
One betrayal too much
Madeleine is tired of Chris
http://www.allerbutiken.se/Global/Covers/HEX.jpg
Press can be ridiculous
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  #538  
Old 08-13-2015, 10:05 PM
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Why do forum members show such ridiculous tabloids?
  #539  
Old 08-13-2015, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
Why do forum members show such ridiculous tabloids?
A very good question. It would be nice if there were some rules as to what is acceptable postings. If individual members like to read gossip articles that is fine but it really brings the quality of these discussions down.
  #540  
Old 08-13-2015, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Is the "photo proof" that little pic where she's checking her mobile while presumably sitting opposite him?
If it is, the press are really desperate for story...
OMG!! My marriage must really be on the rocks!!!!
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