The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #461  
Old 06-08-2015, 08:17 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Madeleine because AFAIK it is not clear whether she is now Mrs. O'Neil, who join her family for the occasional big show.
Or whether she remains Princess Madeleine, who is an active member of the SRF and as such is expected to be in Sweden often.
I think she made it clear that she's not "Mrs. O'Neil" when her name on her first baby shower registry was "Madeleine Bernadotte". Also, when her daughter's passport name was listed as "Bernadotte O'Neil".
__________________

  #462  
Old 06-08-2015, 09:05 PM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 6,104
Well going on how well the idea of King CG "giving away" the bride went down in Sweden, I am going to assume that women do not necessarily take their husband's name as their own. (Please correct me if I am wrong).
__________________

__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
  #463  
Old 06-08-2015, 10:40 PM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 4,019
I have been thinking of princess bendictte of Denmark and how I think I have seen her husband maybe once at one of his children's weddings. She is often doing the New Years thing alone, at opening of parliament alone, always alone. Her husband lives in Germany and she comes and shows up when necessary, right? That is not such a weird model. However her children took their fathers titles and are not danish princesses, maybe that is the difference?
  #464  
Old 06-08-2015, 10:41 PM
acdc1's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: somewhere in, United States
Posts: 1,888
How will the children being titled complicate things? I know that they have to at least go to school in Sweden, will they be expected to carry out royal duties the older they get as well? Why do they even have titles- if Victoria and Daniel have more children, and Carl Philip and Sofia have children, the chances of Madeleine and Chris's kids inheriting the throne is very very slim.
  #465  
Old 06-08-2015, 11:38 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
According to Article 4 of The Act of Succession, princes and princesses of the Royal House shall be brought up in the "pure evangelical faith" and "within the Realm". However I find it interesting that whereas "Any member of the Royal Family not professing this faith shall be excluded from all rights of succession" no similar provision is made to exclude a prince or princess who is not brought up within the Realm. It's possible such a notion did not enter the minds of the draftsmen of the Act, but possibly it was left unaddressed intentionally.

Perhaps we are in for some imaginative definitions of "within the Realm". Maybe being brought up with the title of Prince or Princess and being involved in some major Royal events will be deemed to be being brought up "within the Realm" even if the child goes to school elsewhere.
__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
  #466  
Old 06-08-2015, 11:45 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,256
Seems to me that the titles of Maddie's kids are just an 'in name only' type of thing...very very unlikely they would ever be in the line of succession. As soon as CP has children they drop even farther back than they are now...so really don't see that it makes any difference if Maddie's kids are raised elsewhere.


LaRae
  #467  
Old 06-08-2015, 11:54 PM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 4,019
I really do think that it was the very unlikely scenrio which actually did occur for the king which is behind all of this. The fact that only he, as a male and not his older sisters, could inheirit and his father died in a plane crash when he was a baby. So his grandfather remained king and the present king became king at a young age and really lived his whole young life in a kind of succession crisis.
  #468  
Old 06-09-2015, 03:10 AM
LadyFinn's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southwest, Finland
Posts: 22,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
The gossip press is attacking again
The truth behind the betrayals against the family
Chris carries a dark secret
http://www.allerbutiken.se/Global/Covers/SOH.jpg
About this cover, Hänt i Veckan writes that the court has repeatedly defended Chris and claimed that he is a very busy financier and the job occupies an extremely large part of his time. But according to a source with good insight, it is not the whole truth.
- Chris simply doesn't thrive in Sweden. Life here was not what he had in mind. He has been very down recently, which of course has affected the whole family.
Chris has lived to say the least a dissolute life through the years and lived in big cities as London and New York. He lived a jet-set life with luxury and style and exclusive parties before he met Madeleine and his everyday life was so far from Little Stockholm and Royal Mews as you can get.
- He has in the longest chosen not to say anything to hurt Madeleine. But finally he couldn't keep the secret anymore. He can not stand to stay in the small Östermalm. He feels trapped and bored.
Madeleine has been very clear that she wants to live and raise their children in Sweden - a dream she now abruptly is forced to give up.
- She felt that she had no choice, the source said.
Chris O’Neills svek mot gravida Madeleine_ ”Till slut orkade han inte bära på hemligheten längre” _ Hänt.se
  #469  
Old 06-09-2015, 03:20 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
I have been thinking of princess bendictte of Denmark and how I think I have seen her husband maybe once at one of his children's weddings. She is often doing the New Years thing alone, at opening of parliament alone, always alone. Her husband lives in Germany and she comes and shows up when necessary, right? That is not such a weird model. However her children took their fathers titles and are not danish princesses, maybe that is the difference?
Her two daughters are in fact Princesses zu Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburg. and her son is Prince.

Prince Richard, who is not the most social man in the world, did accompany his wife to the major events within the DRF and sometimes the wider circle of royals as well, before he got older and his health poorer.
And Schloss Berleburg is not a small estate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
According to Article 4 of The Act of Succession, princes and princesses of the Royal House shall be brought up in the "pure evangelical faith" and "within the Realm". However I find it interesting that whereas "Any member of the Royal Family not professing this faith shall be excluded from all rights of succession" no similar provision is made to exclude a prince or princess who is not brought up within the Realm. It's possible such a notion did not enter the minds of the draftsmen of the Act, but possibly it was left unaddressed intentionally.

Perhaps we are in for some imaginative definitions of "within the Realm". Maybe being brought up with the title of Prince or Princess and being involved in some major Royal events will be deemed to be being brought up "within the Realm" even if the child goes to school elsewhere.
I think that one was more to avoid a claim to the Swedish throne from someone who was either born, or lived most of his life abroad, and who now suddenly returned. Perhaps backed by a (foreign) army.
Also, it easier to keep an eye on someone who might possible think about "jumping the queue" if that person lived within the realm.
The conditions about religion is related to the Swedish state beforehand being very particular about protecting the Lutheran faith and ensuring the citizens remained Lutherans. Even as late as around 1900, that was something the authorities enforced severely.
Quite a number of the Swedes who emigrated to America in the 1800's were lay preachers and their followers, because that was illegal in Sweden and you could end up in prison if you preached anything else than what the local authorized Lutheran priest preached.
  #470  
Old 06-09-2015, 03:21 AM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 6,614
Alrighty then! So the "dark secret" is that Christopher O'Neill is used to a sophisticated, luxurious, faced paced lifestyle and finds Sweden a bit dull and depressing?

My God, what a blow to the prestige of the Royal House...what a boon for the Republican movement in Sweden!Princess Madeleine married a...gasp...a jet setter!

These are the some of the same tabloids that have spent the last few months promoting Sofia Hellqvist, former Ms. Slitz by way of Paradise Hotel, as Sweden's answer to Cinderella?

They are strictly in it for laughs at this point,imo.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
  #471  
Old 06-09-2015, 04:09 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,897
It is interesting and indeed very telling to read the arguments of those here, who come to the defense of Chris O'Neil, so to speak.
And not least to see where they come from.

I notice that the majority seems to be Americans and that IMO is noteworthy. (And educational as well).
Because you do not come from a small country with a monarchy and that means, again IMO, that you probably reflect the view of Chris O'Neil in this matter. I.e. that it's not such a big deal.
That is significant, because if I were to label Chris O'Neil, it would be as an cosmopolitan Anglo-American. - Labeling him with a mindset of a (continental) European has never even occurred to me.

In contrast I am a continental European, who on top of that come from a small country where the monarchy matters, so I can perhaps better understand the view of the Swedish press and dare I say quite a number of Swedes as well... - Also in regards to, shall we say, the sometimes more provincial outlook of a small nation.

I do believe there is a good deal of truth in the article LadyFinn posted. I.e. that Chris O'Neil does not find Stockholm particularly interesting, perhaps even provincial. The depression bit and sobbing on the shoulder of Madeleine I think we can safely take with a grain of salt or two.

So in this particular sub-subject: if you were to try and put yourselves into Chris O'Neil's head, an upper-class big-city Anglo-American (de facto) businessman, who has lived all his life in places like London and New York and now find himself facing the prospect of being dumped in Stockholm, surrounded by (socialist) Swedes and with very few friends nearby. What would you think about his view would be?

- If I were to guess, he would at least conclude that he would spend most of his time away from his wife, children and family anyway. So it is simply more practical to live in London.
  #472  
Old 06-09-2015, 04:31 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 11,655
He has simply underestimated what he was getting into, the same goes for his wife too.
Its difficult enough marrying a person from a different world if you are willing to adapt to the other person's world but if you are unwilling to (and this seems to be the case for both) it gets really difficult.
  #473  
Old 06-09-2015, 04:32 AM
LadyFinn's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southwest, Finland
Posts: 22,811
The royal family and the media is a two-way street. You give something and you get something. There are only a few reporters and photographers that report and take photos of the royal family in their every day work. Normally always the same reporters and same photographers. The king, queen, Victoria and Daniel meet them many times every week, Carl Philip sometimes when he works. The queen, Victoria, Daniel and Carl Philip talk normally with the reporters, give short interviews and pose for the photographers. The king may not talk with the reporters but at least the photographers get photos and the reporters write about the event. Madeleine hasn't done the normal "bread and butter" events hardly at all after she moved to New York. Her work events are at the big celebrations or at the Royal Palace, where the staff of the court takes photos at the meeting or there is a couple of photographers taking the necessarily photos. She doesn't talk with the press and the press feels that she is distant.
The court should have had a meeting with Madeleine and Chris and discuss about their plans and their PR. Or maybe they have had that but it hasn't helped.
  #474  
Old 06-09-2015, 04:45 AM
eya eya is offline
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 6,027
I want to ask to the swedish there if all that mess with Chris is worst or better there?
  #475  
Old 06-09-2015, 05:20 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Well going on how well the idea of King CG "giving away" the bride went down in Sweden, I am going to assume that women do not necessarily take their husband's name as their own. (Please correct me if I am wrong).
Very true!
  #476  
Old 06-09-2015, 05:52 AM
xenobia's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Near the artic circle, Sweden
Posts: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
It is interesting and indeed very telling to read the arguments of those here, who come to the defense of Chris O'Neil, so to speak.
And not least to see where they come from.

I notice that the majority seems to be Americans and that IMO is noteworthy. (And educational as well).
Because you do not come from a small country with a monarchy and that means, again IMO, that you probably reflect the view of Chris O'Neil in this matter. I.e. that it's not such a big deal.
That is significant, because if I were to label Chris O'Neil, it would be as an cosmopolitan Anglo-American. - Labeling him with a mindset of a (continental) European has never even occurred to me.

In contrast I am a continental European, who on top of that come from a small country where the monarchy matters, so I can perhaps better understand the view of the Swedish press and dare I say quite a number of Swedes as well... - Also in regards to, shall we say, the sometimes more provincial outlook of a small nation.

I do believe there is a good deal of truth in the article LadyFinn posted. I.e. that Chris O'Neil does not find Stockholm particularly interesting, perhaps even provincial. The depression bit and sobbing on the shoulder of Madeleine I think we can safely take with a grain of salt or two.

So in this particular sub-subject: if you were to try and put yourselves into Chris O'Neil's head, an upper-class big-city Anglo-American (de facto) businessman, who has lived all his life in places like London and New York and now find himself facing the prospect of being dumped in Stockholm, surrounded by (socialist) Swedes and with very few friends nearby. What would you think about his view would be?

- If I were to guess, he would at least conclude that he would spend most of his time away from his wife, children and family anyway. So it is simply more practical to live in London.
This.

My husband, who is totally interested in royalty, commented on a clip on TV with Carl Philip and Sofia. He said that "Madeleine and her husband never did interviews, did they? It would have been nice to know a little bit more about him. He seems like an interesting guy (his work and background), but I guess he's not interested in people and life here in Sweden. Too bad." And another friend of ours who watched TV with us agreed.

It's true that a lot of people don't follow the Royal family that close, but they know the family is there. We have never gotten the opportunity to get to know Chris. I have no reason to doubt that he is a nice person, but since he doesn't want us to know more about him, we will never know.

I would advice the couple to:
a) give an interview to a serious reporter that they trust, so we can know a little bit more about them
b) give us a clear directions about when we can expect Chris to turn up, and stick to that. Once or twice a year is fine. Just let us know.
c) decide if Madeleine is mostly Mrs O'Neill or princess Madeleine, so we can know what to expect from her as well when it comes to participating in Royal activities.
  #477  
Old 06-09-2015, 09:16 AM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 4,019
what a great post! I think you got it all.
I can understand how Chris could come across as a snob, as if he doesn't have time for the swedes, even though I am americanThey just have poor advice.

Also, btw i wasn't trying to disparage princess Bendictate in any way just to think of someone who is married, lives in another country and a royal princess in her own right and still works for the royal family. I didn't know her husband wasn't well.
But their children's titles come from their father, not their mother, right Muhler?
  #478  
Old 06-09-2015, 10:04 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
Also, btw i wasn't trying to disparage princess Bendictate in any way just to think of someone who is married, lives in another country and a royal princess in her own right and still works for the royal family. I didn't know her husband wasn't well.
But their children's titles come from their father, not their mother, right Muhler?
Oh, I didn't think you were.

Yes, Natalie and Alexandra have their titles from their father. I checked the DRF site to be sure.

Great post, Xenobia.

A lot of common sense.
  #479  
Old 06-09-2015, 11:10 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
According to Article 4 of The Act of Succession, princes and princesses of the Royal House shall be brought up in the "pure evangelical faith" and "within the Realm". However I find it interesting that whereas "Any member of the Royal Family not professing this faith shall be excluded from all rights of succession" no similar provision is made to exclude a prince or princess who is not brought up within the Realm. It's possible such a notion did not enter the minds of the draftsmen of the Act, but possibly it was left unaddressed intentionally.

Perhaps we are in for some imaginative definitions of "within the Realm". Maybe being brought up with the title of Prince or Princess and being involved in some major Royal events will be deemed to be being brought up "within the Realm" even if the child goes to school elsewhere.

You make valid points. However, when specifically asked about it, it appears that the Marshal of the Court said that Leonore would have to move permanently to Sweden by the time she is in grade school in order to retain her membership in the Royal House and her position in the line of succession.
  #480  
Old 06-09-2015, 11:14 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 1,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Oh, I didn't think you were.

Yes, Natalie and Alexandra have their titles from their father. I checked the DRF site to be sure.

Great post, Xenobia.

A lot of common sense.

Princess Benedikte's children are not in the Danish line of succession either, officially because they were not raised in Denmark even though, as far as I know, there is no explicit provision in the Danish Act of Succession actually excluding people from the royal succession on those grounds.
__________________

Closed Thread

Tags
chris o'neill, princess madeleine


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion current events current events thread duchess of cambridge duchess of cornwall's fashion and style dutch state visit e-mail fashion poll greece haldane hereditary grand duchess stéphanie kate middleton king abdullah ii king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand norway november november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles prince leka princess eugenie outfit princess marie princess mary princess mary fashion princess victoria fashion queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen mathilde fashion queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania casual outfit queen rania daytime fashion queen rania fashion queen rania in the un queen rania style royal weddings september 2016 sheikha moza state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden swedish royal family summer portraits 2016 the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:40 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises