Madeleine and Chris: Media and Public Opinion

[princess carmen]

I think someone on here from Sweden said the people don't rally care about Chris. I think they will continue to live their lives as they want. People will see Chris at some events and that is all there is to it.

 

[HRHHermione]

And that might very well be......but once again it is the media that stirs the pot to cause a bit of trouble [they have nothing better to do]. All media tries to tell people what they should think. Our American one is the worse. They tell us who to vote for and why. What shows are best, etc. Most have it 75% wrong and it shows. Our own fault for following like sheep. I would just once like to see a sitting monarch take a firm public stand for his family instead of being another king JC and let the media belittle his relative by marriage. Why are these men wimps?

Um... No, these are men who recognize that attempting to interfere with a free press would be a complete violation of their constitutional role and who also realize that attempting to dictate what the press can and can't say would make it a thousand times worse.




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[Winnie]

I think someone on here from Sweden said the people don't rally care about Chris. I think they will continue to live their lives as they want. People will see Chris at some events and that is all there is to it.

Yes, I have had private messages from people living in Sweden and they agree with you. The citizens do not care what Chris does and just enjoy seeing the photos of the children. He does not affect their lives. Victoria does. It is the "yellow press" of the media that wants scandal.

 

[LadyFinn]

Even though the swedes wouldn't care about Chris, life with constant negative press would not be easy for Madeleine, especially if all the other members of the family get positive press. But we will see what happens when Madeleine moves to London and after her maternity leave has ended. How she will work for Sweden, or perhaps she gets even third child right after the second.

 

[RubyPrincess168]

And that might very well be......but once again it is the media that stirs the pot to cause a bit of trouble [they have nothing better to do].

I think you're right, and that they're thinking very short term, rather than looking at the big picture. Once Victoria and Daniel have more kids, and Carl Phillip and Sofia have kids, Madeleine and Chris's kids will move farther down the line of succession and it won't matter where they live and how they're raised.

 

[Winnie]

Um... No, these are men who recognize that attempting to interfere with a free press would be a complete violation of their constitutional role and who also realize that attempting to dictate what the press can and can't say would make it a thousand times worse.

No, the palace does not have to forbid, just set the record straight and insist that documented proof is given for the stories. Entertainers and CEOs do it all the time and then give money to charity when case is won in court. There comes a time when media must stop making up scandals just to sell papers. The free press was once a brilliant institution with moral people printing facts that could be proven 100%. Today, that is a laugh most times. Probably why most newspapers are closing and TV anchors are now being investigated or fired. Hope that it keeps up and that the media will once again stop being just a laugh and become what it once was, a moral champion of the people.

 

[HRHHermione]

1) the media has never been a "moral champion of the people"

2) so far, the stories that have been printed have turned out to be true or mostly true. Gossip journalists are who broke the news about the move to London- something that wouldn't have happened had a PR plan been in place.


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[Winnie]

1) the media has never been a "moral champion of the people"

2) so far, the stories that have been printed have turned out to be true or mostly true. Gossip journalists are who broke the news about the move to London- something that wouldn't have happened had a PR plan been in place.

I am old enough to remember when the media was truthful and if your # 2 is correct, the king probably thought it was no one's business. I do understand your position but I also don't still understand why people think that they have the right to dictate someone's life that does not affect their own. Just so foreign to me. I guess it is my age and remember Harry S Truman not putting up with media garbage. He gave them hell!

 

[Muhler]

It's not a question of whether Chris should and could be allowed to be a private person who can attend whatever he want's and whenever he want's to.
That's how it works in a perfect world but not in this world.

The fact is that Chris and Madeleine are criticized and that his absence is noted. Otherwise we wouldn't have this thread.

Chris O'Neil is in the position where he can shrug his shoulders and say: "So what"? In which case this thread will be alive and well in five years from now.

So, the current criticism and questions will continue at least until C&M have clearly defined their roles.
C&M themselves, the SRF certainly to some degree and/or the infamous press office have bungled the whole thing IMO.

Madeleine because AFAIK it is not clear whether she is now Mrs. O'Neil, who join her family for the occasional big show.
Or whether she remains Princess Madeleine, who is an active member of the SRF and as such is expected to be in Sweden often.
Or whether she intends to be a SRF reserve, who will step in when needed, say when Sofia and/or Victoria are on maternity leave or ill. (A bit akin to Princess Beneddikte in DK).
Chris, because he is either naive, thinking he can marry an active royal and not being a part of the royal show. Of course the Swedish public will be interested in him as well. What on earth did he expect?
Or uncompromising. I.e. unwilling to realize that because the Swedes are interested in his wife, they are also interested in him and such expect and appreciate that he show up at his wife's side from time to time. He may be a busy businessman, but even businessmen who are not married to a royal can find time to attend the odd family anniversary, gathering and birthday. Especially if they are held about the same time every year.
Or he is stubborn. I.e. being an arch-republican who do not believe in all that royalty-nonsense and who will not attend royal events unless dragged kicking and screaming. He just happened to fall in love with and marry a princess.
Or, which is the worst thing, he is completely indifferent. He couldn't care one hoot about Sweden, the Swedes and the role of the SRF. If that is the case then it is and will be preceived as a snub to the Swedish public.

The SRF failed, because it hasn't been made clear what role M&C will have, if any. To be honest I suspect the SRF as a whole don't know either!
Leonore has a title, but no one has gone out to explain that it's really "just in case".

The press office screwed up, because they have failed to be clear about anything in regards to C&M. That is if the office has even been informed...
A main job of any press office is to advise those whom they serve. Well, such advise has either been nonexistent, very poor or ignored.

So, is it any wonder C&M get some heat in the Swedish press?

But on the bright side. It will eventually decrease as the focus (for better or worse) switch to Sofia and CP, and as V&D (hopefully) have more children and they grow up.

 

[Daffodil]

Madeleine because AFAIK it is not clear whether she is now Mrs. O'Neil, who join her family for the occasional big show.
Or whether she remains Princess Madeleine, who is an active member of the SRF and as such is expected to be in Sweden often.

I think she made it clear that she's not "Mrs. O'Neil" when her name on her first baby shower registry was "Madeleine Bernadotte". Also, when her daughter's passport name was listed as "Bernadotte O'Neil".

 

[MARG]

Well going on how well the idea of King CG "giving away" the bride went down in Sweden, I am going to assume that women do not necessarily take their husband's name as their own. (Please correct me if I am wrong).

 

[Frelinghighness]

I have been thinking of princess bendictte of Denmark and how I think I have seen her husband maybe once at one of his children's weddings. She is often doing the New Years thing alone, at opening of parliament alone, always alone. Her husband lives in Germany and she comes and shows up when necessary, right? That is not such a weird model. However her children took their fathers titles and are not danish princesses, maybe that is the difference?

 

[acdc1]

How will the children being titled complicate things? I know that they have to at least go to school in Sweden, will they be expected to carry out royal duties the older they get as well? Why do they even have titles- if Victoria and Daniel have more children, and Carl Philip and Sofia have children, the chances of Madeleine and Chris's kids inheriting the throne is very very slim.

 

[Roslyn]

According to Article 4 of The Act of Succession, princes and princesses of the Royal House shall be brought up in the "pure evangelical faith" and "within the Realm". However I find it interesting that whereas "Any member of the Royal Family not professing this faith shall be excluded from all rights of succession" no similar provision is made to exclude a prince or princess who is not brought up within the Realm. It's possible such a notion did not enter the minds of the draftsmen of the Act, but possibly it was left unaddressed intentionally.

Perhaps we are in for some imaginative definitions of "within the Realm". Maybe being brought up with the title of Prince or Princess and being involved in some major Royal events will be deemed to be being brought up "within the Realm" even if the child goes to school elsewhere.

 

[Pranter]

Seems to me that the titles of Maddie's kids are just an 'in name only' type of thing...very very unlikely they would ever be in the line of succession. As soon as CP has children they drop even farther back than they are now...so really don't see that it makes any difference if Maddie's kids are raised elsewhere.


LaRae

 

[Frelinghighness]

I really do think that it was the very unlikely scenrio which actually did occur for the king which is behind all of this. The fact that only he, as a male and not his older sisters, could inheirit and his father died in a plane crash when he was a baby. So his grandfather remained king and the present king became king at a young age and really lived his whole young life in a kind of succession crisis.

 

[LadyFinn]

The gossip press is attacking again
The truth behind the betrayals against the family
Chris carries a dark secret
http://www.allerbutiken.se/Global/Covers/SOH.jpg

About this cover, Hänt i Veckan writes that the court has repeatedly defended Chris and claimed that he is a very busy financier and the job occupies an extremely large part of his time. But according to a source with good insight, it is not the whole truth.
- Chris simply doesn't thrive in Sweden. Life here was not what he had in mind. He has been very down recently, which of course has affected the whole family.
Chris has lived to say the least a dissolute life through the years and lived in big cities as London and New York. He lived a jet-set life with luxury and style and exclusive parties before he met Madeleine and his everyday life was so far from Little Stockholm and Royal Mews as you can get.
- He has in the longest chosen not to say anything to hurt Madeleine. But finally he couldn't keep the secret anymore. He can not stand to stay in the small Östermalm. He feels trapped and bored.
Madeleine has been very clear that she wants to live and raise their children in Sweden - a dream she now abruptly is forced to give up.
- She felt that she had no choice, the source said.
Chris O’Neills svek mot gravida Madeleine_ ”Till slut orkade han inte bära på hemligheten längre” _ Hänt.se

 

[Muhler]

I have been thinking of princess bendictte of Denmark and how I think I have seen her husband maybe once at one of his children's weddings. She is often doing the New Years thing alone, at opening of parliament alone, always alone. Her husband lives in Germany and she comes and shows up when necessary, right? That is not such a weird model. However her children took their fathers titles and are not danish princesses, maybe that is the difference?

Her two daughters are in fact Princesses zu Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburg. and her son is Prince.

Prince Richard, who is not the most social man in the world, did accompany his wife to the major events within the DRF and sometimes the wider circle of royals as well, before he got older and his health poorer.
And Schloss Berleburg is not a small estate!

According to Article 4 of The Act of Succession, princes and princesses of the Royal House shall be brought up in the "pure evangelical faith" and "within the Realm". However I find it interesting that whereas "Any member of the Royal Family not professing this faith shall be excluded from all rights of succession" no similar provision is made to exclude a prince or princess who is not brought up within the Realm. It's possible such a notion did not enter the minds of the draftsmen of the Act, but possibly it was left unaddressed intentionally.

Perhaps we are in for some imaginative definitions of "within the Realm". Maybe being brought up with the title of Prince or Princess and being involved in some major Royal events will be deemed to be being brought up "within the Realm" even if the child goes to school elsewhere.

I think that one was more to avoid a claim to the Swedish throne from someone who was either born, or lived most of his life abroad, and who now suddenly returned. Perhaps backed by a (foreign) army.
Also, it easier to keep an eye on someone who might possible think about "jumping the queue" if that person lived within the realm.
The conditions about religion is related to the Swedish state beforehand being very particular about protecting the Lutheran faith and ensuring the citizens remained Lutherans. Even as late as around 1900, that was something the authorities enforced severely.
Quite a number of the Swedes who emigrated to America in the 1800's were lay preachers and their followers, because that was illegal in Sweden and you could end up in prison if you preached anything else than what the local authorized Lutheran priest preached.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Alrighty then! So the "dark secret" is that Christopher O'Neill is used to a sophisticated, luxurious, faced paced lifestyle and finds Sweden a bit dull and depressing?

My God, what a blow to the prestige of the Royal House...what a boon for the Republican movement in Sweden!Princess Madeleine married a...gasp...a jet setter!

These are the some of the same tabloids that have spent the last few months promoting Sofia Hellqvist, former Ms. Slitz by way of Paradise Hotel, as Sweden's answer to Cinderella?

They are strictly in it for laughs at this point,imo.

 

[Muhler]

It is interesting and indeed very telling to read the arguments of those here, who come to the defense of Chris O'Neil, so to speak.
And not least to see where they come from.

I notice that the majority seems to be Americans and that IMO is noteworthy. (And educational as well).
Because you do not come from a small country with a monarchy and that means, again IMO, that you probably reflect the view of Chris O'Neil in this matter. I.e. that it's not such a big deal.
That is significant, because if I were to label Chris O'Neil, it would be as an cosmopolitan Anglo-American. - Labeling him with a mindset of a (continental) European has never even occurred to me.

In contrast I am a continental European, who on top of that come from a small country where the monarchy matters, so I can perhaps better understand the view of the Swedish press and dare I say quite a number of Swedes as well... - Also in regards to, shall we say, the sometimes more provincial outlook of a small nation.

I do believe there is a good deal of truth in the article LadyFinn posted. I.e. that Chris O'Neil does not find Stockholm particularly interesting, perhaps even provincial. The depression bit and sobbing on the shoulder of Madeleine I think we can safely take with a grain of salt or two.

So in this particular sub-subject: if you were to try and put yourselves into Chris O'Neil's head, an upper-class big-city Anglo-American (de facto) businessman, who has lived all his life in places like London and New York and now find himself facing the prospect of being dumped in Stockholm, surrounded by (socialist) Swedes and with very few friends nearby. What would you think about his view would be?

- If I were to guess, he would at least conclude that he would spend most of his time away from his wife, children and family anyway. So it is simply more practical to live in London.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

He has simply underestimated what he was getting into, the same goes for his wife too.
Its difficult enough marrying a person from a different world if you are willing to adapt to the other person's world but if you are unwilling to (and this seems to be the case for both) it gets really difficult.

 

[LadyFinn]

The royal family and the media is a two-way street. You give something and you get something. There are only a few reporters and photographers that report and take photos of the royal family in their every day work. Normally always the same reporters and same photographers. The king, queen, Victoria and Daniel meet them many times every week, Carl Philip sometimes when he works. The queen, Victoria, Daniel and Carl Philip talk normally with the reporters, give short interviews and pose for the photographers. The king may not talk with the reporters but at least the photographers get photos and the reporters write about the event. Madeleine hasn't done the normal "bread and butter" events hardly at all after she moved to New York. Her work events are at the big celebrations or at the Royal Palace, where the staff of the court takes photos at the meeting or there is a couple of photographers taking the necessarily photos. She doesn't talk with the press and the press feels that she is distant.
The court should have had a meeting with Madeleine and Chris and discuss about their plans and their PR. Or maybe they have had that but it hasn't helped.

 

[eya]

I want to ask to the swedish there if all that mess with Chris is worst or better there?

 

[hernameispekka]

Well going on how well the idea of King CG "giving away" the bride went down in Sweden, I am going to assume that women do not necessarily take their husband's name as their own. (Please correct me if I am wrong).

Very true!

 

[xenobia]

It is interesting and indeed very telling to read the arguments of those here, who come to the defense of Chris O'Neil, so to speak.
And not least to see where they come from.

I notice that the majority seems to be Americans and that IMO is noteworthy. (And educational as well).
Because you do not come from a small country with a monarchy and that means, again IMO, that you probably reflect the view of Chris O'Neil in this matter. I.e. that it's not such a big deal.
That is significant, because if I were to label Chris O'Neil, it would be as an cosmopolitan Anglo-American. - Labeling him with a mindset of a (continental) European has never even occurred to me.

In contrast I am a continental European, who on top of that come from a small country where the monarchy matters, so I can perhaps better understand the view of the Swedish press and dare I say quite a number of Swedes as well... - Also in regards to, shall we say, the sometimes more provincial outlook of a small nation.

I do believe there is a good deal of truth in the article LadyFinn posted. I.e. that Chris O'Neil does not find Stockholm particularly interesting, perhaps even provincial. The depression bit and sobbing on the shoulder of Madeleine I think we can safely take with a grain of salt or two.

So in this particular sub-subject: if you were to try and put yourselves into Chris O'Neil's head, an upper-class big-city Anglo-American (de facto) businessman, who has lived all his life in places like London and New York and now find himself facing the prospect of being dumped in Stockholm, surrounded by (socialist) Swedes and with very few friends nearby. What would you think about his view would be?

- If I were to guess, he would at least conclude that he would spend most of his time away from his wife, children and family anyway. So it is simply more practical to live in London.

This.

My husband, who is totally interested in royalty, commented on a clip on TV with Carl Philip and Sofia. He said that "Madeleine and her husband never did interviews, did they? It would have been nice to know a little bit more about him. He seems like an interesting guy (his work and background), but I guess he's not interested in people and life here in Sweden. Too bad." And another friend of ours who watched TV with us agreed.

It's true that a lot of people don't follow the Royal family that close, but they know the family is there. We have never gotten the opportunity to get to know Chris. I have no reason to doubt that he is a nice person, but since he doesn't want us to know more about him, we will never know.

I would advice the couple to:
a) give an interview to a serious reporter that they trust, so we can know a little bit more about them
b) give us a clear directions about when we can expect Chris to turn up, and stick to that. Once or twice a year is fine. Just let us know.
c) decide if Madeleine is mostly Mrs O'Neill or princess Madeleine, so we can know what to expect from her as well when it comes to participating in Royal activities.

 

[Frelinghighness]

what a great post! I think you got it all.
I can understand how Chris could come across as a snob, as if he doesn't have time for the swedes, even though I am americanThey just have poor advice.

Also, btw i wasn't trying to disparage princess Bendictate in any way just to think of someone who is married, lives in another country and a royal princess in her own right and still works for the royal family. I didn't know her husband wasn't well.
But their children's titles come from their father, not their mother, right Muhler?

 

[Muhler]

Also, btw i wasn't trying to disparage princess Bendictate in any way just to think of someone who is married, lives in another country and a royal princess in her own right and still works for the royal family. I didn't know her husband wasn't well.
But their children's titles come from their father, not their mother, right Muhler?

Oh, I didn't think you were.

Yes, Natalie and Alexandra have their titles from their father. I checked the DRF site to be sure.

Great post, Xenobia.

A lot of common sense.

 

[Mbruno]

According to Article 4 of The Act of Succession, princes and princesses of the Royal House shall be brought up in the "pure evangelical faith" and "within the Realm". However I find it interesting that whereas "Any member of the Royal Family not professing this faith shall be excluded from all rights of succession" no similar provision is made to exclude a prince or princess who is not brought up within the Realm. It's possible such a notion did not enter the minds of the draftsmen of the Act, but possibly it was left unaddressed intentionally.

Perhaps we are in for some imaginative definitions of "within the Realm". Maybe being brought up with the title of Prince or Princess and being involved in some major Royal events will be deemed to be being brought up "within the Realm" even if the child goes to school elsewhere.

You make valid points. However, when specifically asked about it, it appears that the Marshal of the Court said that Leonore would have to move permanently to Sweden by the time she is in grade school in order to retain her membership in the Royal House and her position in the line of succession.

 

[Mbruno]

Oh, I didn't think you were.

Yes, Natalie and Alexandra have their titles from their father. I checked the DRF site to be sure.

Great post, Xenobia.

A lot of common sense.

Princess Benedikte's children are not in the Danish line of succession either, officially because they were not raised in Denmark even though, as far as I know, there is no explicit provision in the Danish Act of Succession actually excluding people from the royal succession on those grounds.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

He has simply underestimated what he was getting into, the same goes for his wife too.
Its difficult enough marrying a person from a different world if you are willing to adapt to the other person's world but if you are unwilling to (and this seems to be the case for both) it gets really difficult.

But how do we know that Madeleine and Chris are unwilling to adapt? It could be that in their minds they have indeed adapted to one another's world. Chris agreed(perhaps reluctantly) to allow his children to be titled and in the line of Succession. He agrees to marry Madeleine in her own country, in her own religious tradition, without even a Catholic priest present at the ceremony. He agrees to leave NYC, a city he has stated that he loves.

She in turn continues to perform her essential duties as a Princess of Sweden while permitting her non-Royal husband the freedom to decide the extent that he will be a part of her ceremonial life.

I see no difficulty for the couple, they seem to have adapted in a way that they feel comfortable with. On the contrary the only difficulty is coming from certain segments of the Swedish press who frankly have never seemed able to warm up to Princess Madeleine's husband.

It's already been established that the Swedish public is indifferent on the subject of Chris O'Neill. So the only "adjusting" here needs to be done by the press.