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  #221  
Old 05-02-2015, 12:11 PM
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Agree with Zonk all the way! It amazes me how this couple (especially Chris because Madeleine sometimes deserves some critics IMO) gets bashed but another couple gets always justified and defended
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  #222  
Old 05-02-2015, 12:18 PM
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Since I'm not Swedish, I don't know why the media are so antagonistic towards Chris and Madeleine. Are they upset because they think that they left New York and came running back to Sweden to live off public money? Do they want them (Chris included) to either be private citizens OR public full-time royals?

I'm actually thinking that this is all a whirlwind for the whole family, particularly Chris. Think of the timeline:
2010/2011- begin a relationship.
2012- engagement
2013- wedding
2014- birth of first child, who is given an HRH and a duchy and is "the spare" for the time being in the line of succession
2015- birth of second child

In the midst of all of this, he's had to move to Sweden, a country where he doesn't know the language (which I'm sure might make working a challenge, even though most people speak English), and has had to enter into a very public role. Chris strikes me as a person who is rather shy, and I'm sure the public role and scrutiny is daunting, particularly the fact that he and his wife are being so criticized within the media! I truly do feel bad for C&M, but particularly Chris.

It will probably be easier for Madeleine to have her children raised in Sweden as part of the royal family, rather than in New York where they are more disconnected from things.
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  #223  
Old 05-02-2015, 12:19 PM
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I have no problem with Chris running his own business and just showing up for a few important royal occasions. My problem is that he (just like Madeleine) seems to show up when it suits them, not when they can be expected to.

Take the Nobels. Madeleine chose not to attend in 2010 and 2011. In 2012, Chris was supposed to attend with Madeleine, but he excused himself just a few weeks before. The Nobel celebrations is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) occasions in the royal calendar. In 2013, Madeleine was heavily pregnant - a good reason not to attend. I have no problems with that. But showing up when they feel like it, not regularly, that isn't exactly what I expect from a princess of Sweden and her husband. Either you're in, or you're not.
  #224  
Old 05-02-2015, 07:23 PM
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Xenobia, is your grievance more with Madeleine's past attitudes to Royal work than with Chris?
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  #225  
Old 05-03-2015, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Xenobia, is your grievance more with Madeleine's past attitudes to Royal work than with Chris?
I guess it's a combination. I'm swedish, so I've followed her actions for quite some time now. She has never been a hard worker. Neither has Carl Philip. It's always been Victoria who actually worked, and she's also highly admired and respected here, even among those who aren't royalists.

Chris seems to just tag along in Madeleines pattern of showing up when it suits him/her. I would have no problem at all with an arrangement when they both show up for the National day in june + Nobel in december, and be private the rest of the year. But that's not the case now. They (or one of them) shows up when there's something fancy on the schedule that they want to participate in - not in any of the daily bred and butter events. They can even skip the big events if they don't feel like showing up. And that's what I don't like.
  #226  
Old 05-03-2015, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I have no problem with Chris running his own business and just showing up for a few important royal occasions. My problem is that he (just like Madeleine) seems to show up when it suits them, not when they can be expected to.

Take the Nobels. Madeleine chose not to attend in 2010 and 2011. In 2012, Chris was supposed to attend with Madeleine, but he excused himself just a few weeks before. The Nobel celebrations is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) occasions in the royal calendar. In 2013, Madeleine was heavily pregnant - a good reason not to attend. I have no problems with that. But showing up when they feel like it, not regularly, that isn't exactly what I expect from a princess of Sweden and her husband. Either you're in, or you're not.

I believe it is possible to be a full member of the Royal House and still have a career of your own and only attend a few state events. Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands is a good example. The problem with Chris is that he declined membership in the Royal House, which was fine when he lived in NYC and had nothing to do with Sweden, but is harder to justify now.
  #227  
Old 05-03-2015, 09:51 AM
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People know exactly what Constantijn does for a living, they know that he doesnt show up as he pleases (Chris is tagging along Maddie, and you cannot say the same for her). Chris' problem is that his business is not transparent, and then he makes the mistake to 'forget to pay' his taxes. In the beginning he had a clear position, private person, not a member of the RF. The move to Sweden made everything more difficult. After the critizim on Madeleine Chris all of a sudden showed up (had to show up?) at some unimportant events.

xenobia, I fully agree with your post, there is no red line in what he does, just like Madeleine, what puts both of them in a tenuous position.

I am sure that Chris is not happy with the developent since the wedding, but he has to please his wife. Maddie had underestimated how difficult it is to live in NYC with a kid and without family, altough she had a regular/justifyable job out there, so he had to follow suit. Now Maddie is back in the princess life without doing the bread & butter princess work and Chris is under a scrutiny he never wanted on himself.

I think they have enough money to live for example in London as Mr & Mrs O Neill but Maddie needs her family around her and the princess attention & perks, she is lost on her own with Chris working and just handling the kids.
  #228  
Old 05-04-2015, 01:24 AM
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I dont think Chris could be a working royal. At this point Sweden doesnt need 4 working couple and people would complain about supporting him. He couldnt be private though because at the moment his daughter is the spare, his wife is a member of the RF and people would complain about not seeing him. He works in finance so Imo he has to be private and not disclose what he does/his investments.
In a few year they could leave Sweden, but until Leonore is the spare imo they shouldnt.
  #229  
Old 05-04-2015, 03:15 AM
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I believe they will leave Sweden and move to London after baby #2 has been baptized.
Sweden was always a temporary solution for them, they had to register as inhabitants because one needs to register somewhere.


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  #230  
Old 05-04-2015, 05:19 AM
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IMO the problem is that there is no clear decisions made by Chris and Madeleine on what role they take. Is Chris a completely private individual who won't be part of the working RF? Or is he part of the working RF? Even the couple don't seem sure.
I think the reason other members of royal families have managed to combine working and being part of a RF is that they set clear boundaries and roles.
I think the move to Sweden from NY was a mistake (though I can see why Madeleine would want to be in Sweden with her family - I'm talking about the media and Chris and Madeleine here) It would have been better for them IMO to move to London or another European city and set up a home, Chris to start working from that city and to only attend key royal events through the year. He could attend the Noble dinner, the King's birthday etc every year.
Surely it would be easy for Chris to say he will attend a set of events each year, the Court would know what he is or isn't showing up for, Chris could easily fit his work around these few events. Madeleine could still do some more duties onto of this, visiting Sweden every few weeks or for a block of time every now and then.
  #231  
Old 05-04-2015, 08:42 AM
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I think there are a lot of assumptions being made here, none of us know what they have decided and talked about. I would think as a couple they would have planned things and know what they are doing . Just because they don't announce their plans doesn't mean they don't exist.
  #232  
Old 05-04-2015, 08:54 AM
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Chris is not an HRH, I don't see how anybody can expect him to become a working member of the royal family. Madde on the other hand is different.

As for Madde- she will have to settle in Sweden eventually, as is it not required that those in line for the throne attend school in Sweden? That will come before you know it.
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  #233  
Old 05-04-2015, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Chris is not an HRH, I don't see how anybody can expect him to become a working member of the royal family. Madde on the other hand is different.

As for Madde- she will have to settle in Sweden eventually, as is it not required that those in line for the throne attend school in Sweden? That will come before you know it.
There are plenty of HRH's around who are no working members to a royal family. That does not say a lot, on itself.
  #234  
Old 05-04-2015, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There are plenty of HRH's around who are no working members to a royal family. That does not say a lot, on itself.
I know, but I think it's what each country expects from its own royals. My point is, I'm not sure what Sweden expects from Madde and Chris. I don't think it fair to expect anything from Chris. What they expect/don't expect from Madde (and by extension Carl-Phillippe) is different.
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  #235  
Old 05-04-2015, 10:03 AM
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Not that it really matters, but I can't help wondering that, if the Victorian social hierarchy were still in place, Prince William would have married Madeleine (the Swedish princess), whereas Kate Middleton perhaps might have ended up with Chris O'Neill (the English banker).
  #236  
Old 05-04-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I know, but I think it's what each country expects from its own royals. My point is, I'm not sure what Sweden expects from Madde and Chris. I don't think it fair to expect anything from Chris. What they expect/don't expect from Madde (and by extension Carl-Phillippe) is different.

Like I said before - I want and expect consistency. If he (and Madeleine) shows up just for Nobel and the national day celebrations, I'm fine with that. If they both become full time working royals, I'm fine with that as well.

What I really dislike is that they show up when there's something on the schedule that they find interesting (like meeting the pope), and can decide to opt out on big stuff like Nobel. They need to tell us - the Swedish people - what their roles are and what we can expect from them.
  #237  
Old 05-04-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Not that it really matters, but I can't help wondering that, if the Victorian social hierarchy were still in place, Prince William would have married Madeleine (the Swedish princess), whereas Kate Middleton perhaps might have ended up with Chris O'Neill (the English banker).
That is quite well possible but i have a feeling both couples are better matched they way it is now
  #238  
Old 05-06-2015, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Like I said before - I want and expect consistency. If he (and Madeleine) shows up just for Nobel and the national day celebrations, I'm fine with that. If they both become full time working royals, I'm fine with that as well.

What I really dislike is that they show up when there's something on the schedule that they find interesting (like meeting the pope), and can decide to opt out on big stuff like Nobel. They need to tell us - the Swedish people - what their roles are and what we can expect from them.
I think Chris is a private person that could attend some events, but he remains a private person. Sweden doesnt support him so if he doesnt do events, no problem. He went to meet the pope but it was also a sort of personal event. He was there as a member of the family.
About Madeleine, she is pregnant. Imo after the pregnancy and the wedding, it's likely her role will be better definend.
I doubt it's likely, but I'd be glad if she becomes a full time working royal again.
  #239  
Old 05-06-2015, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by princess carmen View Post
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made here, none of us know what they have decided and talked about. I would think as a couple they would have planned things and know what they are doing . Just because they don't announce their plans doesn't mean they don't exist.
Oh I agree. Plus, lets face it, I am sure the King and Queen know and approves of all that has gone on and will go on. M & C are not silly. They are not going to upset loved ones for no reason. I can even see them sitting down with V & D going over future plans. I believe the family unit is in tact and that is really all that is important. C & S will be the next couple to feel media bite, but I don't think they will care either. Remember for years the media wanted V & D to part and they were sure wrong about that, much to a lot of nasty people's wishes.
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  #240  
Old 05-07-2015, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kellydofc View Post
I think that generation will all be quite close. I think that M&C will be done after this baby and that CP&S will only have 2 as well. That means that generation of the royal family will be 5 people and their potential spouses which is not that huge. I really think there is a reason that the royal family released those pictures of Estelle and Leonore and I don't think it was just to show a happy family, otherwise it wouldn't have been just the two girls.
Is there a reason people don't think Victoria and Daniel =will have any more children? Estelle is only 3. That's not a long time to wait before another pregnancy. Many people wait even longer. Was the first pregnancy difficult?
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