It's A Girl: HRH Princess Leonore Lilian Maria of Sweden: February 20, 2014


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Kit said:
Leonore Lilian Maria - a nice name IMO for the little princess and I like it much better than the name Estelle. Not surprised she got the HRH and along with it a duchy. And isn't she a beautiful baby ?!
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I personally love the name Madeleine and Chris have given their new daughter. I have never reconciled myself to the name "Estelle" which I think is an awful name for such an enchanting little girl.:sad:

Leonore is a gorgeous infant, but I must say that the first thing that came to my mind when I saw her photo is that she looks like Chris, not Madeleine!
 
I love her name and by giving her the titles it allows Chris and Madeline 5 years to make a final decision on moving back to Sweden. It will probable hinge on how many other children are born.
 
SwissRoyal said:
Could someone please clarify: at the press meeting, did they say that M and C have DECIDED to move back to Sweden before Leonore is 6 years of age? Or did they just inform about the GROUND RULES for Leonore to remain in the succession line, and is it still open whether M and C will move back yes or no?
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No one has said that M and C have decided to move back to Sweden. Like I wrote about the Aftonbladet article a couple of pages before, Svante Lindqvist, the Marshal of the Realm said that is important to follow the order of succession which requires her baptized in Sweden in the Swedish Church to the Protestant faith, and that she is brought up within the Realm. According to the Marshal of the Realm the court has interpreted that Princess Leonore must move back to Sweden close her sixth birthday in order to remain in the order of succession.
- She will be brought up from about six years of age and have her entire schooling in Sweden. She will be Swedish, speak Swedish flawlessly and take a Swedish school graduation, says Svante Lindqvist.
But Svante Lindqvist stressed out that the order of succession is "extremely vague" to what degree a child in the succession order must be raised and educated in Sweden.
- But then the question is whether they choose to stay in London, could the school there be counted as a swedish school?, royal expert Roger Lundgren wonders.
Måste gå i svensk skola Nyheter Aftonbladet

When Svante Lindqvist stressed out that the order of succession is "extremely vague" to what degree a child in the succession order must be raised and educated in Sweden looks very much a back door to me. So that if the child will go to a swedish school and of course speaks swedish perfectly and M, C and their family spend a couple of months in Sweden in the summer could well be enough when Leonore is six years old and they have to make the decision.

About the name and former queens of Sweden, Chris said that they both loved the name Leonore. He didn't say anything that they picked it because it is like some name of a former queen. Lilian is taken for granted and Maria comes from his mother.
 
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What a beautiful baby and a lovely name. Not surprised that she is hrh, her siblings children are not certain. Also not surprised that they are trying to someday trying to find a way to live in Sweden, daddy is not exactly an all American boy.
 
SwissRoyal said:
Could someone please clarify: at the press meeting, did they say that M and C have DECIDED to move back to Sweden before Leonore is 6 years of age? Or did they just inform about the GROUND RULES for Leonore to remain in the succession line, and is it still open whether M and C will move back yes or no?
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As I understand this: Right now it's the intention to move back to Sweden in time for Princess Leonore's school education and M & C agreed to this wording for the sake of the Swedish line of succession.

All seem to forget that Prince Madeleine often came across as the reluctant princess:whistling:! That she has always followed her own path from the teenage years! That she married a man preferring his civilian status quo! And who doesn't seem too keen on the limelight!

Maybe Madeleine and Chris really want to settle in Sweden when the time comes. But there's also the possibility that they hope that Victoria and Carl-Philip have produced sufficient candidates for the Swedish line of succession by then!

viv
 
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:previous: A very sound and relevant point.
 
Countessmeout said:
You are right. Bertil was the the fourth child and third son (Ingrid was older) of Gustav Adolph. By the time his older brother, Carl Gustav's father, died in an airplane crash, the second brother Sigvard had been removed from the line of succession by marrying a commoner in the 30's. His younger brother Carl Johan had the year before also lost his right to succession, when he too married a commoner. Both brothers were eventually made Counts by Charlotte of Luxembourg. Bertil knew there was a good chance his father would die before CG was old enough to assume the throne, and he could not serve as regent if he married Lilian as he would lose his place as his brothers had. It was unnecessary as his father died in 1973, and CG was already 27.

His nephew approved his marriage shortly after his own, allowing him to retain his title. He served as Deputy to CG, and Lilian became Princess Lilian. He was next in line until the birth of his nephew, and then the change in succession laws.
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I think that you're on to something very important here, when it comes to the line of succession. Many people seem to forget how close the Swedish royal family was to have no one in line for the throne.

When Carl Gustafs father died, he was just six months. His oncle Bertil was the only other person in line of succession. When Bertil met Lilian, they gave up family and Children for the sake of the nation. Litterally.

CG was just 27 (and single) when he became king. He had met Silvia a year before that, but they weren't engaged. So Carl Gustaf knows that for a while, it was touch and go with the line of succession in Sweden. I'm actually convinced that he preferes to have all his grandchildren in the line of succesion, for that reason alone.
 
Thanks Marg:flowers:!

The Swedish RF doesn't want to end up in a situation similar to that in 1973-1976 when they were left with an unmarried young king and a sixty-odd year old spare with no issue! The outlook for the Swedish monarchy had been pretty grim if King Carl-Gustaf had crashed in his favourite Porches back then!
There was a similar situation in Denmark with our one heir and one spare in the 1970s and 1980s. Had anything happened to them - and they nearly got themselves killed in a car crash in France in 1988 - we would have been left with an unmarried, elderdy princess Elisabeth! The nieces and the nephew of the Queen were out of the question because they had not been raised in Denmark.
It was even worse in Norway, with only Crown Prince Harald left at a time! His sisters both married commoners. Had anything happened to him, it would probably have spelled the end for the Norwegian monarchy!

In short: the Scandinavian RFs got themselves in this vulnerable situation because too many members had been flagged-out to unequal marriages. Now they've learned their lessons..

viv
 
Viv said:
As I understand this: Right now it's the intention to move back to Sweden in time for Princess Leonore's school education and M & C agreed to this wording for the sake of the Swedish line of succession.

All seem to forget that Prince Madeleine often came across as the reluctant princess:whistling:! That she has always followed her own path from the teenage years! That she married a man preferring his civilian status quo! And who doesn't seem too keen on the limelight!

Maybe Madeleine and Chris really want to settle in Sweden when the time comes. But there's also the possibility that they hope that Victoria and Carl-Philip have produced sufficient candidates for the Swedish line of succession by then!

viv
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Thanks Viv,what a most informative & well written post!
 
Victoria's and Madeleine's former teacher professor Herman Lindqvist about Leonore and raising her on the succession order, he was interviewed in Studio Ett at the Swedish Radio: That is something we know nothing about. If Madeleine really wants what is best for her child on the swedish history, she should let her move home or resign. Court expert Sten Hedman disagrees in Expressen: Madeleine is a princess who is in the succession order. It is not her problem to move home, it is Lindqvist's problem.Lindqvist should be more positive
Herman Lindqvist: Flytta hem eller avgå | Nyheter | Expressen | Senaste nytt - Nyheter Sport Nöje TV
Translation
 
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Does anyone know when the monorgram and the coats of arms will be published? or will they be published closer to the baptism?
 
In Estelle's case the monogram and the coat of arms were published at the day of her christening. So I guess we will have to wait until Princess Leonore will be christened!
 
I´m very surprised that the baby got an HRH and ducal title! Is this because of women´s equal rights?!
I mean, as far as I know, other than a prince who married a commoner girl or royal, their children became automatically royal by birth, a princess marrying a commoner, their children became commoners (Prcss Anne, the 2 daughters of King Olav, King Carl Gustafs sisters, Princess Margaret, Princess Carolines children from 2nd marriage, etc etc.)?
I was certain he or she would simply become Mr./ Miss O´Neill. Are the reasond for this speculative or does someone know positive?
 
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MARG said:
I don't get it either. All this angst over what is really a lovely choice made by loving parents. Should they have held a Poll to choose?

If many of these horrified and outraged posters had thought for a moment they would remember that Prince Andrew's daughters (the Queen's granddaughters) are both HRH and that Prince Edward's children would also hold that title but for a choice made by their parents to be known as the children of an Earl.

It's just that this started happening in the UK with the birth of William over 30 years ago whereas Victoria and Madeleine are only now having children that are the King's grandchildren.
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Why yes, I wanted a poll for the readers of the New York Daily News, and said so. They would have come up with Princess Tiffany or Madison (as in the jewelry store or the avenue) or something equally, well, incredible.
 
wartenberg7 said:
Who, other than the princely couple of Asturias eldest daughter and the new swedish baby is also called Leonore?!:ermm:
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You've a Leonor in Netherlands, daughter of Prince Constantin and Princess Laurentien and Eleonore in Belgium, daughter of King Philippe and Queen Mathilde !
 
 
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wartenberg7 said:
I´m very surprised that the baby got an HRH and ducal title! Is this because of women´s equal rights?!
I mean, as far as I know, other than a prince who married a commoner girl or royal, their children became automatically royal by birth, a princess marrying a commoner, their children became commoners (Prcss Anne, the 2 daughters of King Olav, King Carl Gustafs sisters, Princess Margaret, Princess Carolines children from 2nd marriage, etc etc.)?
I was certain he or she would simply become Mr./ Miss O´Neill. Are the reasond for this speculative or does someone know positive?
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The Swedish Royal Family have equal inheritance since 1980! That means that Princess Madeleine has as much right to pass on her titels as for example Prince Carl Philip has! That Chris has no title is irrelevant in this question!

Why the Kings sisters could not pass on their titles was because they had no right to inherit the throne to begin with. They have never been in the line of succession.
Princess Madeleine on the other hand, has been in the line of succession from the day she was born and has every right to inherit the throne, and the same applies for her daughter!

Princess Leonore is the grandchild of a King, of course she should be a Princess! (and their is no way she could have been titled HH, since the HH title doesn't exict in Sweden, only HRH)
:flowers:
 
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leonore is a very cute baby, i think she looks like madeleine instead of chris. i also think they chose really nice names. i loved infanta leonor's name when i heard it and it seems madeleine also did!
 
On Sunday 2 March 2014 at 14:00, a Te Deum thanksgiving service will be held in the Royal Chapel at the Royal Palace of Stockholm in connection with the birth of H.R.H. Princess Leonore.
There will only be a limited photo pool at the beginning of the thanksgiving service.
The invited guests are the immediate family, representatives of the Riksdag, the Government and official Sweden, and the staff of the Royal Court. Princess Madeleine, Mr Christopher O'Neill, Princess Leonore and Mr Christopher O'Neill's family will be unable to attend the Te Deum thanksgiving service.
Te Deum thanksgiving service, 2 March 2014 - Sveriges Kungahus
 
HBG91 said:
The Swedish Royal Family have equal inheritance since 1980! That means that Princess Madeleine has as much right to pass on her titels as for example Prince Carl Philip has! That Chris has no title is irrelevant in this question!

Why the Kings sisters could not pass on their titles was because they had no right to inherit the throne to begin with. They have never been in the line of succession.
Princess Madeleine on the other hand, has been in the line of succession from the day she was born and has every right to inherit the throne, and the same applies for her daughter!

Princess Leonore is the grandchild of a King, of course she should be a Princess! (and their is no way she could have been titled HH, since the HH title doesn't exict in Sweden, only HRH)
:flowers:
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With the king's sisters it was not simply they were not in line for succession. Their titles had become courtesy titles by the time they had children. They had lost their HRH status and their actual title, when they married commoners. His one sister who married a prince, lost her HRH and became a HSH as her husband was a HSH. This happened even with males back then. This is why Bertil did not marry until after the king, as his brothers Sigvard and Carl Johan had lost their titles by marriage to commoners. If it wasn't for Charlotte of Luxembourg, they'd have had no title.
 
LadyFinn said:
On Sunday 2 March 2014 at 14:00, a Te Deum thanksgiving service will be held in the Royal Chapel at the Royal Palace of Stockholm in connection with the birth of H.R.H. Princess Leonore.

There will only be a limited photo pool at the beginning of the thanksgiving service.

The invited guests are the immediate family, representatives of the Riksdag, the Government and official Sweden, and the staff of the Royal Court. Princess Madeleine, Mr Christopher O'Neill, Princess Leonore and Mr Christopher O'Neill's family will be unable to attend the Te Deum thanksgiving service.

Te Deum thanksgiving service, 2 March 2014 - Sveriges Kungahus
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It makes sense that Madeleine and Chris and Leonore won't be coming. Madeleine most likely is not feeling prepared to travel and bringing Leonore out expose we to many different things and may overwhelm her. Chris wouldn't want to leave his family- especially if he has not master the language yet. I would have been very very surprised if they were in attendance. Chris's family does not understand Swedish so it is understandable that they do not attend either.
 
Sarahbellar said:
It makes sense that Madeleine and Chris and Leonore won't be coming. Madeleine most likely is not feeling prepared to travel and bringing Leonore out expose we to many different things and may overwhelm her. Chris wouldn't want to leave his family- especially if he has not master the language yet. I would have been very very surprised if they were in attendance. Chris's family does not understand Swedish so it is understandable that they do not attend either.
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Can see why they are not going for sure. It is not a good idea to fly with an infant this young especially that long of a distance. It isn't even recommended that new mothers fly this soon either. Top that off with yet another major storm bearing down on the Northeast of the US this weekend--good chance for Chris to get stuck trying to get home. No reason for his family to attend if he or Madeleine were not.
 
Most doctors recommend a month at least before a baby fly any distance really. The baby should be old enough to really suck a soother, because it is the best way for their ears not to be hurt by change in pressure. If you have to fly sooner, percautions like nursing during take off can help, but doctors would still suggest waiting unless necessary.
 
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