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  #21  
Old 05-22-2014, 12:12 PM
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Joakim Nergelius, professor of constitutional law at Örebro University, has given an interview also to Aftonbladet.

Now the court confirms that the princess owns 5 percent of the business, but argues that the assignment does not conflict with her ​​royal duties.
Unacceptable, says constitutional expert Joakim Nergelius.
- We assume that the royals do not engage in commercial activities. It's the same way that we assume that the minister does not have secondary employment. It is inappropriate and hardly allowed, says Joakim Nergelius.
- When Daniel Westling married Crown Princess Victoria, he terminated all activities. It is a given rule. The Royal Family has a commanding position in the community and are not expected to engage in activities that may put them in a position of dependence, he says.
This indicates that the princess will resign from her title ?
- There will be a new debate about this. I do not think the princess will relinquish the title immediately, but the issue has been brought up.
Hovet Madeleine äger 5 procent Nyheter Aftonbladet

The original Bunte article, which Expressen quoted.
Madeleine von Schweden Will sie keine Prinzessin mehr sein BUNTE.de
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2014, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by principessa View Post
A wonderful picture from a small family:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
She looks like Estelle when she was her age!
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Joakim Nergelius, professor of constitutional law at Örebro University, has given an interview also to Aftonbladet.

Now the court confirms that the princess owns 5 percent of the business, but argues that the assignment does not conflict with her ​​royal duties.
Unacceptable, says constitutional expert Joakim Nergelius.
- We assume that the royals do not engage in commercial activities. It's the same way that we assume that the minister does not have secondary employment. It is inappropriate and hardly allowed, says Joakim Nergelius.
- When Daniel Westling married Crown Princess Victoria, he terminated all activities. It is a given rule. The Royal Family has a commanding position in the community and are not expected to engage in activities that may put them in a position of dependence, he says.
This indicates that the princess will resign from her title ?
- There will be a new debate about this. I do not think the princess will relinquish the title immediately, but the issue has been brought up.
Hovet Madeleine äger 5 procent Nyheter Aftonbladet

Very interesting thank you
Maybe Madeleine should have done like Martha Louise in order to still serve the family but have more liberty to be in the "business world"
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  #24  
Old 05-22-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron Brockdorf View Post
A press release regarding Princess Madeleines involvement in Christopher's company
https://translate.googleusercontent....Ye6zSQ9vR7WZwA
Comment on media data on Princess Madeleine and directorships
Princess Madeleine owns a minority stake of 5% in three of Mr. Christopher O'Neill commercial company.
The remaining 95% is owned by Mr O'Neill. Princess Madeleine's ownership does not give right to dividends in any of the companies.

Princess Madeleine is not employed in any of the companies, not included in any of the companies' management and supporting nor any compensation from the companies. Princess Madeleine is not engaged in business.

Ownership of Minorities is not in conflict with what Princess Madeleine as a member of the royal family can own.
Then why do it in the first place? Its bound to create controversy and we can watch in Spain what happens when royals who are supposed to represent the country get involved in business in whatever way.

Madeleine should draw a clear line if she wants to be an active royal or not and draw the resulting consequences.
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  #25  
Old 05-22-2014, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
Very interesting thank you
Maybe Madeleine should have done like Martha Louise in order to still serve the family but have more liberty to be in the "business world"
I read somewhere around the time of Madeleines and Chris wedding that she had offered to give up her royal title but that her father the King wouldn't hear of it. It could've been a fabrication by the tabloids but if true it's quite interesting.
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  #26  
Old 05-23-2014, 02:42 AM
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I assume that there is a logical explanation for Madeleine holding 5% in a US company. There should be a legal reason for it, maybe this was agreed in the prenups, maybe this is to secure the family interest in the company, etc.

Again this is a grey area whether or not a member of the SRF can have business ownership in this form. Personally I do not care much. It is only 5%. Let's just say Madeleine has many talents but I do not think running a business is one of them. That's why I think there is a legally feasible reason for this LLC ownership construction.
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  #27  
Old 05-23-2014, 02:58 AM
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Interview with Chris in Expressen:

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/nu-s...llerna/?sida=1

So, like I thought, the 5% ownership by an outsider has something to do with protection against creditors.

I wonder what the 3rd company is that Madeleine has 5% interest in?
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2014, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Then why do it in the first place? Its bound to create controversy and we can watch in Spain what happens when royals who are supposed to represent the country get involved in business in whatever way.

Madeleine should draw a clear line if she wants to be an active royal or not and draw the resulting consequences.
As mentioned by a previous poster, I think Madeleine's 5% interest is probably more to do with a pre-nup than actually working for Chris's companies.

But, I would think her lack of "activities" for Sweden since her Engagement, and her absence from several high profile events such as the Nobels, would tend to indicate that she is not intending to be an active royal in any meaningful way at all.
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2014, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
As mentioned by a previous poster, I think Madeleine's 5% interest is probably more to do with a pre-nup than actually working for Chris's companies.

But, I would think her lack of "activities" for Sweden since her Engagement, and her absence from several high profile events such as the Nobels, would tend to indicate that she is not intending to be an active royal in any meaningful way at all.
what do you mean with that the 5% has to do with the pre-nup exactly?

i think what Duke of marmelade was intending to say is that she either needs to be a full time royal or a private person, but not go midway with doing the events she fancies doing and then reclaiming privacy when she fancies it. it's all or nothing in my opinion, or very close to.
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  #30  
Old 05-23-2014, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
As mentioned by a previous poster, I think Madeleine's 5% interest is probably more to do with a pre-nup than actually working for Chris's companies.

But, I would think her lack of "activities" for Sweden since her Engagement, and her absence from several high profile events such as the Nobels, would tend to indicate that she is not intending to be an active royal in any meaningful way at all.
then she should not give her daughter HRH and have the christening paid for by the taxpayer, if its supposed to be private. i am missing a red line that defines madeleine, who imo likes to take the best from both worlds.
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  #31  
Old 05-23-2014, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SwissRoyal View Post
Interview with Chris in Expressen:

Nu svarar Chris om bolagen och rollerna | Nyheter | Expressen

So, like I thought, the 5% ownership by an outsider has something to do with protection against creditors.

I wonder what the 3rd company is that Madeleine has 5% interest in?
Chris says that appointing Madeleine as vice president/ceo was a temporary solution so that he could open a bank account. He didn't consult/inform the king when they decided to involve Madeleine in his companies, because he felt everything was unproblematic and there was no need to it. Chris didn't want to tell the exact amount of his companies and told the reporter to do his own research. Chris also reminded that technically he is not a member of the royal family.
This I find interesting:
Chris is asked: Was it your idea to involve her?
Chris answers: No, no. Never.
He gets quiet and says: Yes, yes. No, no, no.
Yes, of course it was. Yes, yes, yes.

Aftonbladet quotes Expressen
The King knew nothing about Madeleine's businesses
Kungen visste ingenting om Madeleines affärer | Nyheter | Hälsa | Aftonbladet

Expressen's royal reporter Johan T Lindwall in his column:
They break the royal rules
Sorry, Chris, but this does not hold.
To register two companies in USA with the princess as "vice president" is totally against the royal rules.
Lindwall about Chris saying that making Madeleine a vice president was a technical formality: It isn't that simple, especially in the swedish royal family a royal title is not consistent with the simultaneous pursuit of business. The king has been very careful with that it would put the royal family in unnecessary conflict of interest situations. We all remember Daniel had to give up his entire professional career. As the husband of the next Queen Daniel could not like Chris refuse to become a prince. He will always be at the Queen's side and he must have a royal title.
Madeleine is well aware that she under any circumstances can't sit at the management of a commercial U.S. Company, yet she enrolled as the vice president, completely against the royal rules. Did they not think this would be discovered? That Madeleine could be included in the company - far away from Sweden - without reaching a wider audience? Did they want to give the companies a little royal star gloss? Or is this simply a first step for Madeleine to a new career in USA?
De bryter mot de kungliga reglerna | Johan T Lindwall | Expressen
Translation
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  #32  
Old 05-24-2014, 01:44 AM
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Margareta Thorgren explained the matter to Aftonbladet, she said that they had discussed about it with Madeleine and Chris.
- We have spoken to them. Princess Madeleine's ownership is entirely unproblematic. What is happening now is a storm in a tea-kettle. Princess's five percent stake is a formality matter. The title of VP, vice president is a very common position regarding American companies that has now been removed. Madeleine has no role in the company and is not a director or employee and she does not take a salary. There is no profit motive.
If there was not a problem, why was her title taken away ?
- This has raised questions about Madeleine's participation in the company. So that there would be no misunderstanding was Madeleine's title taken away.
Has the King been informed of this?
- Obviously, the king has been informed. Discussion of Chris company began long before Chris O'Neill and Madeleine's wedding. That was when the statements about Chris' possible prince title were made.
Kungen vägrar kommentera Maddes affärer Nyheter Aftonbladet

From Expressen
The court refused to reveal the name of the third company Madeleine is involved in.
- I can understand that such a small minority holdings unrelated to business operations is a private matter, says the king's solicitor Axel Calissendorff.
Is this a real estate holdings?
- I leave no information. I just generally comment. You have information about the applicable business. Otherwise, there is nothing.
He admits that the court is aware of what it is for the type of company, but he would not say how long they have had the information.
- I have tried to find Chris to hear how he looks at his previous statements. I can explain what I am convinced is the background. He has left out information on cases where Madeleine has been "vice president" in, which is not the same than "vice ceo". The third company is different since she is not and never has been "vice president" or any kind of company official. What is true is that she owns five percent. It does not give right to dividends. She is not and has not been employed. It is a private possession. Exactly why he did not want to say the name of it I do not know.
According to the court, the Princess has not done anything that jeopardizes her position as heir to the throne.
- Princess Madeleine has not been guilty of any violation of any rule or policy that she has ownership interests in companies with five percent. It is unproblematic and there is also a pure practical formality, said Margareta Thorgren, the Director of the Press department.
She points out that other members of the royal family also has ownership interests in various companies.
- In the court policy on company matters it is among other things, that the royal family should not be included on the boards of for-profit companies, not be president or vice president, or, do not take full-time employment. However, there is no obstacle to that a royal person is the owner of the company. But here comes the aptitude questions in, one must always take sides in any case, what kind of company you might be going in. Obviously, the suitability issue really important but going into the company, there is no obstacle against. Prince Carl Philip conducts business in corporate form, Prince Daniel the same, and the king also: Stenhammar, Solliden, there are two types of companies. However, one should not be part of any board or be employed by or to be ceo or vice ceo.
Madeleine engagerad i ytterligare ett bolag Nyheter Expressen
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  #33  
Old 05-24-2014, 02:19 AM
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Thanks for informing us, LadyFinn.

What's your opinion? Do you think this is an indication that Madeleine is moving gradually further away from the official SRF? Or was it just thoughtlessness?
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  #34  
Old 05-24-2014, 02:30 AM
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Thanks for informing us, LadyFinn.

What's your opinion? Do you think this is an indication that Madeleine is moving gradually further away from the official SRF? Or was it just thoughtlessness?
Although this isn't such a big thing, I think that this is still a small mess. I found it odd that Chris and Madeleine didn't ask from the king before Madeleine was made a vice president. And Chris said yesterday that Madeleine was made as vice president just so that he could open a bank account, and then Madeleine's name was taken away as vice president. He made it sound that Madeleine was vice president just a few days. But the director of the press department, Margareta Thorgren said "This has raised questions about Madeleine's participation in the company. So that there would be no misunderstanding was Madeleine's title taken away." It gives me the impression that Madeleine was the vice president for a longer time. But this is just a speculation, one could also speculate that Chris and Madeleine tried if the information and Madeleine's status as the vice president could be keeped as a secret and the press would not find that out.
And Madeleine surely knows the court policy about the members of the royal family in business, since it was discussed quite much when Daniel was made a prince and he had to step up from his active role in his companies. And again last year when Chris decided that the didn't want to become a member of the royal family since he wanted to continue his business career.
About Madeleine resigning from her royal title and living permanently in USA, I don't know. For now it seems that she wants to be as private as possible and not to do normal royal duties but at the same time she holds very tight of her HRH title and doesn't want to give it away.
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  #35  
Old 05-24-2014, 02:49 AM
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Thanks for your opinion, LadyFinn.

Well, I guess we are all allowed to make mistakes, especially in the beginning.
The business world of New York may seem far away from Sweden, especially if you are used to be in charge.
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  #36  
Old 05-24-2014, 07:30 AM
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I think that the whole situation with Madeleines involvement in Chris' companies is very unfortunate. Not a dealbreaker, but not well handled either.

My five cents:
I think that if Madeleine could have chosen herself, she would have given up the HRH-title and just be princess Madeleine, Mrs O'Neill. I think that it's the king who wants her - and perhaps even more important - her daughter to be in line of succession. We hade a situation here in Sweden when the current kings father was killed in a plane crash. He was less than a year old when he became crown prince. If his uncle Bertil hadn't stepped in (with all that it meant for him, like not marrying Lilian), we could have had a situation when the line of succession simply was no line at all.

Our current king may not be the best one ever, but I think that he is determined to do whatever he can to make sure that the monarchy doesn't find itself in the same situation again. I personally believe that Victoria and Daniel are having some problems with a sibling (the spare) for Estelle. I don't think that she came along easily either. If they end up with just one child, princess Leonore is the only spare in the family. Carl Philip isn't married, and even though he and Sofia might walk down the aisle later on, there is not guarantee they will have children.

So all in all: if Victoria and Daniel har more children, and/or Carl Philip becomes a father, I think that the king will allow Madeleine and her children to withdraw from the public eye and renounce their HRH-titles. And to sum up, I also think the her (small but still important) role in her husbands companies are one step towards her becoming more of Mrs O'Neill rather than HRH princess Madeleine of Sweden.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:08 AM
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That is a very intelligent comment, and it sure points the way for the monarchy to survive. Your very insightful in regards to situation. I really love Victoria and Daniel, they are such wonderful and thoughtful parents and their parenting skills are beyond anything I have seen of royal children. Their daughter is one very lucky young lady to have them as parents for at her age she is way beyond her years. I hope they can have other children, they would be such a blessing to them and to Sweden.
Do you know how the people feel about SH if she married Prince Carl? Her background leaves a lot to be desired from all comments from the media and others..........just wondering!
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  #38  
Old 05-24-2014, 01:02 PM
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Telephone interview with Chris on the situation:

Chris is not great at speaking diplomatic royal language, he is quite clumsy in how he expresses himself about the situation. Probably did not take many law classes when he was at Columbia Business School ;-)

Halfway throughout the interview, he says something like "we own a house and what is someone falls into your pool". Not very diplomatic if you ask me.
During the interview after the birth he answered to a journalist about the baby's name "I would tell it, I would, but I am not allowed".

Yet, I like his honest way of speaking to the media.
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  #39  
Old 05-24-2014, 02:48 PM
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General News about Madeleine, Chris and Leonore, Part 1: April 2014 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenobia View Post

My five cents:
I think that if Madeleine could have chosen herself, she would have given up the HRH-title and just be princess Madeleine, Mrs O'Neill. I think that it's the king who wants her - and perhaps even more important - her daughter to be in line of succession. We hade a situation here in Sweden when the current kings father was killed in a plane crash. He was less than a year old when he became crown prince. If his uncle Bertil hadn't stepped in (with all that it meant for him, like not marrying Lilian), we could have had a situation when the line of succession simply was no line at all.

Our current king may not be the best one ever, but I think that he is determined to do whatever he can to make sure that the monarchy doesn't find itself in the same situation again. I personally believe that Victoria and Daniel are having some problems with a sibling (the spare) for Estelle. I don't think that she came along easily either. If they end up with just one child, princess Leonore is the only spare in the family. Carl Philip isn't married, and even though he and Sofia might walk down the aisle later on, there is not guarantee they will have children.

So all in all: if Victoria and Daniel har more children, and/or Carl Philip becomes a father, I think that the king will allow Madeleine and her children to withdraw from the public eye and renounce their HRH-titles. And to sum up, I also think the her (small but still important) role in her husbands companies are one step towards her becoming more of Mrs O'Neill rather than HRH princess Madeleine of Sweden.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. As I wrote in a post here yesterday I've heard rumours about Madeleine wanting to abandon her HRH at the time of her marriage but that her father wouldn't allow it. I've also thought about that Victoria might not have another child, she's 40 in a few years
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Old 05-24-2014, 02:59 PM
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Bunte, which started the whole discussion about Madeleine's involvement in Chris' companies
Madeleine von Schweden Krise im Königshaus! BUNTE.de

No one of us knows if Victoria had difficulties of getting Estelle. She and Daniel might just have wanted to work a year together as a couple before they started a family.
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