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  #161  
Old 07-23-2015, 08:05 PM
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IMO I find nothing odd with what Chris said or how he said what he said in the interview, and I think the details provided put a few things in perspective.....I also understand and accept/respect that different cultures have different ways of looking at things ....so I suppose and please swedes correct me if I'm wrong the 'problem' here is in the choice of vocabulary ......

What I would like to ask however, had Madeleine ie a woman , said the same thing, about her being the supporting the family....would it have had the same reaction? Or would there have been some sort of admiration?
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  #162  
Old 07-23-2015, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron Brockdorf View Post
IMO I find nothing odd with what Chris said or how he said what he said in the interview, and I think the details provided put a few things in perspective.....I also understand and accept/respect that different cultures have different ways of looking at things ....so I suppose and please swedes correct me if I'm wrong the 'problem' here is in the choice of vocabulary ......

What I would like to ask however, had Madeleine ie a woman , said the same thing, about her being the supporting the family....would it have had the same reaction? Or would there have been some sort of admiration?
It would have been odd if Madeleine said it as well. The normal way here is that you have 50/50 responsibility. Sadly women still make less money but the general consensus is that most people do half of the work and half of the housework. Ofc there are different dynamics in different families to allow for preference/talent/time/money etc. And many people (mostly women still..) only work 80% the first years of their kids life to allow for shorter/fewer days at daycare. Plus everyone is allowed those 80% jobtime by law up until the kid is 9 (I think). So there are many things to make it possible to have a parent home. It's just the general culture that women as well work. Can you (not the person cited) explain WHY the man works? There are no clear comment, jsut that the family need money and such. Just as it's very hard for us to explain easily why there is a more 50/50 work-way here :)¨

I appreciate that every country is different, but I am very sad and shocked at the amount of mean comments about our country that has showed up in this thread, showing on great intolerance.. But that have to stand to the commenters, I won't think less of their countrymen!
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  #163  
Old 07-23-2015, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Muhler where did I say "poor men" I said poor Chris. You are saying women have choice but if seems to me Chris doesn't. It's he that should fall into line and be like Daniel give up his previous life and attend events etc. Anyway like a previous poster I'm out of here. I have a very different view of the SRF after the last 30 or so posts.
I don't think it's fair to compare Chris to Daniel. As Muhler said, Daniel married the Crown Princess and may one day become the consort of the reigning queen. Realistically, he can't "opt out" of royal duties under those circumstances.

I guess a more appropriate comparison would be to contrast Chris with, let's say, the Princess Royal's husband, Timothy Laurence, or Princess Margriet's husband, Pieter van Vollenhoven.
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  #164  
Old 07-23-2015, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
It would have been odd if Madeleine said it as well. The normal way here is that you have 50/50 responsibility. Sadly women still make less money but the general consensus is that most people do half of the work and half of the housework. Ofc there are different dynamics in different families to allow for preference/talent/time/money etc. And many people (mostly women still..) only work 80% the first years of their kids life to allow for shorter/fewer days at daycare. Plus everyone is allowed those 80% jobtime by law up until the kid is 9 (I think). So there are many things to make it possible to have a parent home. It's just the general culture that women as well work. Can you (not the person cited) explain WHY the man works? There are no clear comment, jsut that the family need money and such. Just as it's very hard for us to explain easily why there is a more 50/50 work-way here :)¨

I appreciate that every country is different, but I am very sad and shocked at the amount of mean comments about our country that has showed up in this thread, showing on great intolerance.. But that have to stand to the commenters, I won't think less of their countrymen!

There's been several 'mean' intolerant comments about Chris in this thread as well...some by Swedes. So the 'shock' goes both ways.


LaRae
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  #165  
Old 07-23-2015, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
There's been several 'mean' intolerant comments about Chris in this thread as well...some by Swedes. So the 'shock' goes both ways.


LaRae
I agree. I hope you don't mean me personally, I tried to explain more the generaal culture he will find himself in than on him. But I got a little stingy when people started saying that they lost respect for Sweden and stuff like that... Felt like going a bit to far. But if I said something that seemed mean to Chris, could you please quote it so I can try to explain better. Because I honestly respect their choice, just see some friction in the future due to culture crocks (as is VERY usual when two cultures are getting used to each other)
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  #166  
Old 07-24-2015, 04:17 AM
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I can very well imagine Chris and Madeleine having this discussion.
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  #167  
Old 07-24-2015, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don't think it's fair to compare Chris to Daniel. As Muhler said, Daniel married the Crown Princess and may one day become the consort of the reigning queen. Realistically, he can't "opt out" of royal duties under those circumstances.

I guess a more appropriate comparison would be to contrast Chris with, let's say, the Princess Royal's husband, Timothy Laurence, or Princess Margriet's husband, Pieter van Vollenhoven.
Just a note. Imagine that prince Harry falls in love with (and marries) a famous french-canadian lawyer. Then imagine that she gives an interview (in french, since she hasn't learned english) where she explains that the family has decided to move to Quebec. She is making more money than Harry, who just has his charity work and can fly home now and then, and her business is based there. Since she provides for their family, it's more practical for them to live in Quebec.

I think that situation gives a little glimpse of what Chris' interview is stirring up in Sweden.
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  #168  
Old 07-24-2015, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Just a note. Imagine that prince Harry falls in love with (and marries) a famous french-canadian lawyer. Then imagine that she gives an interview (in french, since she hasn't learned english) where she explains that the family has decided to move to Quebec. She is making more money than Harry, who just has his charity work and can fly home now and then, and her business is based there. Since she provides for their family, it's more practical for them to live in Quebec.

I think that situation gives a little glimpse of what Chris' interview is stirring up in Sweden.
I don't see problem with such Harry's decision.
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  #169  
Old 07-24-2015, 08:03 AM
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Maddy lived in NY befor and after her marriage - even Leonor is born there. So their move to London is bringen them nearer to Sweden - so the Swedes should be glad instead of complaining. They have now wonderfull Sophia who more than willingly will take an active part in in making the swedish people happy with her apperances :)
Maddy doesn't seam to like the spotlight to much and Chris is a privat foreign man with his business, who never lived in Sweden. For him it never was an option to become a member of the royal family - which he made very clear from the start. Like Sophia made it very clear, that there was nothing she liked better ....
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  #170  
Old 07-24-2015, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
I don't see problem with such Harry's decision.
Good for you. And no, it's not the same. I just tried to make a comparison. I know a few brits who wouldn't like the idea of Harry moving away permanently. Well, I tried...
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  #171  
Old 07-24-2015, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Just a note. Imagine that prince Harry falls in love with (and marries) a famous french-canadian lawyer. Then imagine that she gives an interview (in french, since she hasn't learned english) where she explains that the family has decided to move to Quebec. She is making more money than Harry, who just has his charity work and can fly home now and then, and her business is based there. Since she provides for their family, it's more practical for them to live in Quebec.

I think that situation gives a little glimpse of what Chris' interview is stirring up in Sweden.
As you are describing it, it would more be (IMO) a matter of loyalty to the country whose royal family he is a member of than a man-woman equality matter. And I could understand the upstirring.
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  #172  
Old 07-24-2015, 08:45 AM
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As you are describing it, it would more be (IMO) a matter of loyalty to the country whose royal family he is a member of than a man-woman equality matter. And I could understand the upstirring.
That wasn't my point. And yes, I realized I failed to make this comparison too. Reading how people bash my country here just makes me sad and upset, so I'll back out of here again.
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  #173  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:14 AM
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That wasn't my point. And yes, I realized I failed to make this comparison too. Reading how people bash my country here just makes me sad and upset, so I'll back out of here again.
Please don't leave. I am a new member and I love learning cultures. The first thing I noticed is the lack of posters from Sweden. We need you to help us understand.Of course some people will be negative but mostly not I hope. Looking forward to learning more about Sweden from you.
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  #174  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
Maddy lived in NY befor and after her marriage - even Leonor is born there. So their move to London is bringen them nearer to Sweden - so the Swedes should be glad instead of complaining. They have now wonderfull Sophia who more than willingly will take an active part in in making the swedish people happy with her apperances :)
Maddy doesn't seam to like the spotlight to much and Chris is a privat foreign man with his business, who never lived in Sweden. For him it never was an option to become a member of the royal family - which he made very clear from the start. Like Sophia made it very clear, that there was nothing she liked better ....
Madeleine is not very popular in Sweden and never took many royal engagements anyway. I agree with you then that, if she left Sweden for good, her absence probably wouldn't be greatly missed and with Victoria/Daniel and C-P/Sofia around, the royal family could easily manage without her. In a way, Maddie is then "expendable".

The point, however, is , as it is the case for all princesses of the blood, that being royal is not a personal choice for Madeleine. She was born royal and grew up in a family backed by generous state funding and with several perks/privileges made available to them. As an adult, my view is that she is expected to "give back" performing public service to her people and any duties she may be requested to do by the king as head of the royal household. That is in essence not different from what happens to other siblings of heir apparents in other European monarchies where those siblings retain legal membership of the royal house.

If Madeleine wants to leave Sweden for good and opt out of royal duties, she should give up her HRH title and her succession rights. The problem is I don't think that's what she wants. My impression is that she is moving to London just to comply with Chris' will, even though she'd rather stay in Sweden, and will try to show up in the home country for occasional royal duties sporadically. For her, that is actually the worst PR outcome possible since it reinforces a public perception that she lives outside Sweden, disconnected from Swedish life, but shows up as a princess of Sweden when it is convenient for her to do so, for example in grand events and on major dates. That hurts her already low popularity.

And, then, there is the issue of Madeleine's children, who are still required by law to be raised in Sweden. How will she reconcile that requirement with Chris' inflexibility about refusing to get a job in Sweden and claiming instead in his interview that moving to London is the only option available to him to prevent his family from starving ?

I personally blame Chris for not understanding that marrying a princess is different from marrying an ordinary person. That is because a royal family is not an ordinary private family. On the contrary, in the way modern monarchies have used the image of family to legitimize themselves in the public's eyes , royal families have become in a way "the nation's family". It is actually a public office that comes with the perks, but also the responsibilities of any office.
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  #175  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:32 AM
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Yes, I see Madde in fault, but Chris also. It probably was cool to date a blond Swedish Princess, but huh, it's not like in Disney? Both screwed it up royally.
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  #176  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by princess maggie View Post
Please don't leave. I am a new member and I love learning cultures. The first thing I noticed is the lack of posters from Sweden. We need you to help us understand.Of course some people will be negative but mostly not I hope. Looking forward to learning more about Sweden from you.
I'd like to comment more... but it left a REAL sour taste when people started saying they lost respect for our people....
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  #177  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Madeleine is not very popular in Sweden and never took many royal engagements anyway. I agree with you then that, if she left Sweden for good, her absence probably wouldn't be greatly missed and with Victoria/Daniel and C-P/Sofia around, the royal family could easily manage without her. In a way, Maddie is then "expendable".

The point, however, is , as it is the case for all princesses of the blood, that being royal is not a personal choice for Madeleine. She was born royal and grew up in a family backed by generous state funding and with several perks/privileges made available to them. As an adult, my view is that she is expected to "give back" performing public service to her people and any duties she may be requested to do by the king as head of the royal household. That is in essence not different from what happens to other siblings of heir apparents in other European monarchies where those siblings retain legal membership of the royal house.

If Madeleine wants to leave Sweden for good and opt out of royal duties, she should give up her HRH title and her succession rights. The problem is I don't think that's what she wants. My impression is that she is moving to London just to comply with Chris' will, even though she'd rather stay in Sweden, and will try to show up in the home country for occasional royal duties sporadically. For her, that is actually the worst PR outcome possible since it reinforces a public perception that she lives outside Sweden, disconnected from Swedish life, but shows up as a princess of Sweden when it is convenient for her to do so, for example in grand events and on major dates. That hurts her already low popularity.

And, then, there is the issue of Madeleine's children, who are still required by law to be raised in Sweden. How will she reconcile that requirement with Chris' inflexibility about refusing to get a job in Sweden and claiming instead in his interview that moving to London is the only option available to him to prevent his family from starving ?

I personally blame Chris for not understanding that marrying a princess is different from marrying an ordinary person. That is because a royal family is not an ordinary private family. On the contrary, in the way modern monarchies have used the image of family to legitimize themselves in the public's eyes , royal families have become in a way "the nation's family". It is actually a public office that comes with the perks, but also the responsibilities of any office.
I wonder if his view of royalty was scewed by his sister being married to.. I think it's a count? So maybe he thought it was a hollow thing like that... Everything went so faast for them so maybe it didn't sink in enough? A bit of me thinks that she just makes a perfect "trophy wife" with a golden title attached, and that she might have lived like that in NY. But there is alot more to her title...
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  #178  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
That wasn't my point. And yes, I realized I failed to make this comparison too. Reading how people bash my country here just makes me sad and upset, so I'll back out of here again.
Please don't.
I am sorry there have been posters to dish on Sweden and swedish people. We should be able to disagree and to express our mutual lacks of understanding without bashing each other. There are things in swedish culture I don't understand or disagree with, some others I quite like, and I appreciate very much your efforts to explain how is currently swedish society.
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  #179  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I wonder if his view of royalty was scewed by his sister being married to.. I think it's a count? So maybe he thought it was a hollow thing like that... Everything went so faast for them so maybe it didn't sink in enough? A bit of me thinks that she just makes a perfect "trophy wife" with a golden title attached, and that she might have lived like that in NY. But there is alot more to her title...
Yes, Chris's sister Natascha is married to an austrian count. And his sister Tatjana is married to John Henry d'Abo, whose mother is lady Ursula d'Abo, born Manners, daughter of the 9th Duke of Rutland. She was a train-bearer to Queen Elizabeth at the coronation of George VI.
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  #180  
Old 07-24-2015, 10:29 AM
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There is always so much talk about Prince Carl Philip or Princess Madeleine (and his spouse) renouncing their rights and live as "plain, old" Mr./Mrs.... Now, is this even possible under Swedish law? Can they even give up their titles and succession rights if they want to? Or has the only "chance" gone by by marrying with consent?

(Disclaimer: I do not support the idea that they should renounce their titles, I am just curious. And it definitely is something to consider before demanding a renunciation.)

best wishes Michiru
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