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  #61  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I don't think that anyone has suggested that swedes are tolerant when it comes to gender differences. I would say that most swedes are very intolerant when it comes to issues on gender inequality and gender norms. Gender equality is a very big thing here. Being conservative is just about the most shocking thing you can do here.

In a way, it's quite interesting to compare this to all the criticism against princess Sofia. I think that a lot of people from other countries are upset about her past as a model and other things that are frequently discussed. Most swedes doesn't care. Being (semi)nude isn't a big thing. But try to be conservative... that's an easy way to clash with your surroundings. In other countries it's the other way around. I think it all comes down to the different cultural values and traditions.
I thought about that as well. How so many were so flabbergasted over us not making a big deal... But weren't Sweden one of the first countries in like the 60s to allow nudity in movies? :P
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  #62  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I don't think that anyone has suggested that swedes are tolerant when it comes to gender differences. I would say that most swedes are very intolerant when it comes to issues on gender inequality and gender norms. Gender equality is a very big thing here. Being conservative is just about the most shocking thing you can do here.
It seems that the Sweden I lived in for a long time has changed....

I would have thought, that there would be muuuch bigger cultural differences to be shocked about anywhere in Sweden than someone being a bit more conservative.
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  #63  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I thought about that as well. How so many were so flabbergasted over us not making a big deal... But weren't Sweden one of the first countries in like the 60s to allow nudity in movies? :P
Correct. And I would say that people in general are much more upset about violence and drugs in movies, than someone being naked.
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  #64  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:30 AM
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So instead of bread winner he should he have said " I'm the one bringing in the money on which we live " would that make everyone happy or is that wrong too.
They have to have money to live and he makes it what on earth is wrong with that he certainly doesn't deserve to be called names.


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  #65  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:31 AM
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I really love the way we can learn so much about each other's cultures on this forum, apart from all the things we learn about Royalty. My two friends in Sweden (one in Malmo and one in Kalmar) are both women like me who stayed at home with the children and their husbands worked outside the home. So it was so interesting to hear that this was such an extraordinary situation, culture is an ever evolving thing and the variables that shape it are to numerous that it is almost impossible to define it.I'm glad our Swedish posters have tried to explain it to us!
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  #66  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
So instead of bread winner he should he have said " I'm the one bringing in the money on which we live " would that make everyone happy or is that wrong too.
They have to have money to live and he makes it what on earth is wrong with that he certainly doesn't deserve to be called names.


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It would be a more "normal" (as in norm in our culture) way to put it. We are still not complaining as some want to see it. Just explaining why it "stood out" in a Swedish context.
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  #67  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by marlene View Post
I really love the way we can learn so much about each other's cultures on this forum, apart from all the things we learn about Royalty. My two friends in Sweden (one in Malmo and one in Kalmar) are both women like me who stayed at home with the children and their husbands worked outside the home. So it was so interesting to hear that this was such an extraordinary situation, culture is an ever evolving thing and the variables that shape it are to numerous that it is almost impossible to define it.I'm glad our Swedish posters have tried to explain it to us!
I agree. I found this "discussion" very interesting :) How different two on the surface rather similar and modern cultures can have so different cultures when you look a little harded :) Very facinating!
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  #68  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by marlene View Post
I really love the way we can learn so much about each other's cultures on this forum, apart from all the things we learn about Royalty. My two friends in Sweden (one in Malmo and one in Kalmar) are both women like me who stayed at home with the children and their husbands worked outside the home. So it was so interesting to hear that this was such an extraordinary situation, culture is an ever evolving thing and the variables that shape it are to numerous that it is almost impossible to define it.I'm glad our Swedish posters have tried to explain it to us!
Thank you for understanding what I (and several other swedish posters) are trying to explain

I'll try to be even more clear to avoid further misunderstandings. (Not aimed at anyone in particular - just a general explanation).

Flipside: I'm glad Chris did the interview. He has a lot to gain by being more open towards the press and the swedish population in general. It's also very good that he explained that he's not going to be around for every major royal occasion. I understand the reasons behind it, and they are perfectly legitimate. I hope they also try to be more consistent when it comes to planning and PR in the future - that could do a lot to improve their image.

Downside: The way that Chris expresses himself is something that raises a lot of eyebrows over here. His talk about being "the breadwinner" is seen as very old fashioned here. I'm 44 years old, and personally don't know a single woman my age who isn't working and making her own money. (Yes, they do exist, but it's very rare). Women are encouraged to stand on their own two feet and make their own money. Having a husband as a "breadwinner" is a very rare and strange thing to most people my age.

Chris also talks about how he wants to come home and have dinner with his family after a long day at work. Nothing wrong with that, but together with a lot of other remarks it gives us the impression that he's a 1950's kind of guy: he wants a housewife who takes care of the house and kids while he's working. And this is something very, very far away from how the average swede lives.

Everyone has the right to live their lives as they want, as long as you don't hurt anyone else. He's perfectly entitled to his thoughts and opinions, and as long as Madeleine is okay with it, I personally have no objections. The remarks I've made are done to try to explain to other posters why there might be a backlash towards Chris here in Sweden after this interview. I think that Chris isn't familiar with the ways of society here, and he - along with many posters here - can't really understand what the fuzz is about. So I'm trying to explain the fuzz.
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  #69  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Thank you for understanding what I (and several other swedish posters) are trying to explain

I'll try to be even more clear to avoid further misunderstandings. (Not aimed at anyone in particular - just a general explanation).

Flipside: I'm glad Chris did the interview. He has a lot to gain by being more open towards the press and the swedish population in general. It's also very good that he explained that he's not going to be around for every major royal occasion. I understand the reasons behind it, and they are perfectly legitimate. I hope they also try to be more consistent when it comes to planning and PR in the future - that could do a lot to improve their image.

Downside: The way that Chris expresses himself is something that raises a lot of eyebrows over here. His talk about being "the breadwinner" is seen as very old fashioned here. I'm 44 years old, and personally don't know a single woman my age who isn't working and making her own money. (Yes, they do exist, but it's very rare). Women are encouraged to stand on their own two feet and make their own money. Having a husband as a "breadwinner" is a very rare and strange thing to most people my age.

Chris also talks about how he wants to come home and have dinner with his family after a long day at work. Nothing wrong with that, but together with a lot of other remarks it gives us the impression that he's a 1950's kind of guy: he wants a housewife who takes care of the house and kids while he's working. And this is something very, very far away from how the average swede lives.

Everyone has the right to live their lives as they want, as long as you don't hurt anyone else. He's perfectly entitled to his thoughts and opinions, and as long as Madeleine is okay with it, I personally have no objections. The remarks I've made are done to try to explain to other posters why there might be a backlash towards Chris here in Sweden after this interview. I think that Chris isn't familiar with the ways of society here, and he - along with many posters here - can't really understand what the fuzz is about. So I'm trying to explain the fuzz.
Thank you for a very nice way of putting it :) And I think this interview can do alot of good because he was clear in stating their intentions and resonings :)
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  #70  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
But what I have yet to discover is why Chris's culture cannot be accepted as valid and the hostility is reduced to infantile insults calling him at best, conservative and at worst, a male chauvinist pig! Wow, just wow. Seems to me there is a lot of "my way or the highway" going on here.

Chris has a culture that seems at total odds with that of the Swedes.

Culture is a very strange thing and coming from a country that gave women the vote in September 1883 and equal pay for equal work in 1972. And yet the crystal clear glass ceiling is still sitting there just as it always has. My culture has some major kinks to work out. But I know the parameters because that is how it has alway been so who am I to denigrate Chris because his culture differs from mine.
This tread has turned out to be surprisingly educational.

I've shortened Marg's brilliant post, that is well worth reflecting on.

First a little personal protest, Marg I did call Chris arch conservative and that was an immediate reaction based on my definition of a conservative as a Scandinavian. - (That I still believe he is a conservative politically as well as personal is another matter.) In fact come to think of it I am in many ways pretty conservative without ever labeling myself one.

But Marg is right. We Scandinavians didn't consider Chris' cultural background before we reacted.
However, it also shows that Chris has not understood one of the most important things in Swedish society and in the Swedish mindset. Whether that is due to him not being properly introduced to Swedish culture or simply lack of interest or time, is anyone's guess. But as another poster suggested that ignorance will inevitable cause minor clashes in the future.
Because the average Gösta and Freja Nilsson reading the interview do not have the advantage we have here on TRF: That other members from other cultures point out that: Hey, it isn't just because of Scandinavia the sun rise each morning! Eh Marg?

The problem is of course that the unresolved problem still persists:
Who is Madeleine? Is she Princess Madeleine who also happens to Mrs. O'Neil?
Or is she Mrs. O'Neil who also happens to be a Princess?
In Norway they solved the problem by Märtha Louise opting out of the royal roadshow. That's (still) not the case in Sweden.
So until that is resolved Chris O'Neil is, whether he likes it or not, at least a semi-public figure and as such what he says and do get more attention. Also because he's still the new guy.
However in the interview he shows that he has realized that and acknowledged that he/they should have dealt with his situation in regards to the public differently and more openly and that is IMO praise worthy.
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  #71  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Chris also talks about how he wants to come home and have dinner with his family after a long day at work. Nothing wrong with that, but together with a lot of other remarks it gives us the impression that he's a 1950's kind of guy: he wants a housewife who takes care of the house and kids while he's working. And this is something very, very far away from how the average swede lives.

Everyone has the right to live their lives as they want, as long as you don't hurt anyone else. He's perfectly entitled to his thoughts and opinions, and as long as Madeleine is okay with it, I personally have no objections.
I hope that Chris and Madeleine have talked about how and how much they work, and have an agreement with that. The way Chris speaks about wanting to have a dinner with his family when he comes home from work, makes it sound like he doesn't want Madeleine to be at her work in Sweden very much.
Maybe Madeleine wants to be housewife mrs O'Neill, then everything is fine with them. But if Madeleine after her maternity leave(s) wants to be more HRH princess, there might be problems ahead.

I'm a Finn, a little older than xenobia, and in my whole life I have known two women of my own age or younger than me who haven't had a job and made their own money.
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  #72  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
So instead of bread winner he should he have said " I'm the one bringing in the money on which we live " would that make everyone happy or is that wrong too.
They have to have money to live and he makes it what on earth is wrong with that he certainly doesn't deserve to be called names.


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If I were to advise him he should not have mentioned it at all. Everybody knows perfectly well that Chris earns the money in that family, so there is no need to point it out.

I can't say what the media reaction has been in Sweden but the two major Danish tabloids has used the "breadwinner" in their headlines in the articles covering this interview. And that says something.

I can't blame Chris for making a mistake if you can even call it a mistake. He's a novice in this. He is no doubt experienced in dealing with the press. But dealing with a foreign press on personal matters and in a different cultural context is a whole different matter.
So should he have asked for advise from the SRF Pr-office? Would have been a good idea. Should the Swedish court have offered to advise him? You bet!
Should Madeleine have told her husband a bit more on how Swedish mindset works? - Would have been a good idea IMO.
Should Chris O'Neil unfold his skull-finns and try to learn a little more about the culture of his wife's country? - Probably a good idea too.
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  #73  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
If I were to advise him he should not have mentioned it at all. Everybody knows perfectly well that Chris earns the money in that family, so there is no need to point it out.

I can't say what the media reaction has been in Sweden but the two major Danish tabloids has used the "breadwinner" in their headlines in the articles covering this interview. And that says something.

I can't blame Chris for making a mistake if you can even call it a mistake. He's a novice in this. He is no doubt experienced in dealing with the press. But dealing with a foreign press on personal matters and in a different cultural context is a whole different matter.
So should he have asked for advise from the SRF Pr-office? Would have been a good idea. Should the Swedish court have offered to advise him? You bet!
Should Madeleine have told her husband a bit more on how Swedish mindset works? - Would have been a good idea IMO.
Should Chris O'Neil unfold his skull-finns and try to learn a little more about the culture of his wife's country? - Probably a good idea too.
If I remember correctly the "breadwinner" line was what was used in the Swedish press as well, confirming that it was seen as something noteworthy and "clickable".

I don't agree thought that he shouldn't have mentioned it. There have been speculations (among people not as royally knowledgable as us) that they are living on royal money so I think it was good to point out that they are living at his money, especially since there have been focus on his Rolexes :P
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  #74  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:35 AM
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I've certainly learned a lot about Swedish culture. I'm surprised monarchy is able to function in a society that is so politically correct.

Maybe in the future Chris and Madeleine will choose to live in London full-time and give up royal life in Sweden altogether.
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  #75  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:36 AM
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My thoughts are that with all the "negative" type press surrounding Madeleine and Chris, he might have chosen his words a little more carefully. He had to have known that anything he said was going to be released (and possibly misinterpreted). Although, I'm not sure that the SRF's press department would have done him any favors by proofing it, they are not the best at press releases themselves. Maybe CP Victoria's press officer is should have looked it over. They seem to have the best grasp of media relations for the SRF.
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  #76  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by princess gertrude View Post
My thoughts are that with all the "negative" type press surrounding Madeleine and Chris, he might have chosen his words a little more carefully. He had to have known that anything he said was going to be released (and possibly misinterpreted). Although, I'm not sure that the SRF's press department would have done him any favors by proofing it, they are not the best at press releases themselves. Maybe CP Victoria's press officer is should have looked it over. They seem to have the best grasp of media relations for the SRF.
I agree. But the general interview was rather good :) And I think he certainly are learning, which I've already given him praise for :) It's sad that they don't have a good PR-team... In todays age it is SO IMPORTANT and it makes me sad that they are not putting forward their best version. The PR team seems clumsy or outdated.
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  #77  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
I agree. But the general interview was rather good :) And I think he certainly are learning, which I've already given him praise for :) It's sad that they don't have a good PR-team... In todays age it is SO IMPORTANT and it makes me sad that they are not putting forward their best version. The PR team seems clumsy or outdated.
Clumsy is a great word to describe the PR department for the SRF. I'm of the mind to send them a resume. It's got to be cooler there than here where I live. 106 yesterday! Ugh. So over this heat and summer. And goodness knows I could do a much better job.
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  #78  
Old 07-22-2015, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Was that a jab at us or Swedes in general? We very much said we accepted it but that it differs alot from our general experiences. That is not at all non-tolerant.
Some Swedes on this board and the public in general....first the furor over Sofia's past and now the flap about what Chris has said. When words like 'sexist' (among others) are used it doesn't seem like tolerance to me.


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  #79  
Old 07-22-2015, 01:18 PM
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Some Swedes on this board and the public in general....first the furor over Sofia's past and now the flap about what Chris has said. When words like 'sexist' (among others) are used it doesn't seem like tolerance to me.


LaRae
I can't remember much (if any) furor about Sofia being from Swedes (I could be wrong). I think it can be summarized as Swedes are not very tolerant of non-tolerance. So sexism and racism are like the biggest taboos over here.
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  #80  
Old 07-22-2015, 01:25 PM
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Personally he could have worded it better.

And btw some seem to think that Sweden is this ultra feminist pc country, but they are only a bit more aware of sexism then other countries. See the headlines and the comments here by the Swedish posters confirms it. Chris won't get burned on the stake now lmao.
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