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  #341  
Old 06-07-2012, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tea-n-tiaras View Post
I very much enjoyed the Diamond Jubilee Festivities for Queen Elizabeth II. I was so sad that Prince Philip could not be there for all of it. But she was wonderful and worthy of celebrating. I was very touched to watch her receive the cheers and well wishes of the crowds. However, I was disappointed in the obvious way they used her Diamond Jubilee, a celebration of 60 years of Her Majesty's reign, to promote Prince Charles and and the Duchess of Cornwall. I felt that it was very uncomfortable to have The Queen have to share the spotlight with Camilla in the carriage procession back to Buckingham Palace. This should have been The Queen's moment. It should not have been shared with a person who dredges up controversy for so many. It would have been much sweeter to have Prince Harry ride with the Queen in place of Prince Philip and they could have kept to the three carriages as originally planned. I was also very disappointed in the exclusion of the rest of the Queen's immediate and extended family in the balcony appearance. The balcony seemed empty. It lacked that festive and celebratory atmosphere that the Trooping the Colour gives. I know that the Queen has the final say on everything, but I am sure Buckingham Palace is regularly and strongly lobbied by Clarence House to promote Charles for the good of the monarchy. I am also aware that Charles is highly in favor of streamlining the monarchy. That does not need to include streamlining your family out of your celebratory life events. I think that was hurtful. I don't think it would have crossed anyone's mind that Her Majesty's family should not be with her at such a joyous occasion. I would rather have seen them keep The Queen in the spotlight instead of trying to create an afterglow for Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall and have seen the balcony filled with all of her family to celebrate this historic moment.
I think you're being a little harsh. Yes, this past Jubilee Weekend was about celebrating Her Majesty's sixty years on the throne, but we need to remember that behind every great person there are others who show support, love, and a chance to be oneself. Prince Charles is the Heir Apparent, and Camila is his wife and future Queen Consort, so there's nothing uncomfortable or improper about her riding in the same carriage as Her Majesty. I think it was a sign that the past is indeed the past, and that people deserve second chances to show their true colors (and in my eyes Camila has done that and then some). There's more than likely no animosity between Camila and her mother-in-law (after all Her Majesty did award her the Victorian Order earlier this year, which illustrates the level of respect she has for the wife of her firstborn). Also, judging from the cheers that were erupting when Her Majesty appeared at any time during the weekend, we can conclude that people knew exactly who was being celebrated, and having Camila sit next to her in the carriage, or sit in the front row of the royal box during Monday's concert didn't take away from that.

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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
This was a very different Jubliee from previous ones. There was a definite purpose in her decision to have only her immediate heirs and not the rest of the family on the final day and the overall feeling I had watching her was that this was more emotional for her. At times it seemed like she was taking it all in with a hint of sadness. My feeling was that we are definitely seeing the final phase of her reign and she is preparing herself, her family and her subjects to the inevitable conclusion.
I think it was bittersweet moment for everyone. People tend to forget sometimes that even monarchs are mere mortals, that they do get older and eventually pass on. Of course seeing Her Majesty so active and involved, it's not hard to think such (I know I forget sometimes just how old she is, because her energy level is astounding). We cannot forget that for those who are a certain age, she was the only monarch they've ever associated with United Kingdom and the Commonwealth. In short, it's hard to imagine the said Commonwealth and United Kingdom without her. The balcony appearance showed us that all things will eventually come to an end, but, that the people that will succeed her are well-prepared and committed to serving their nation, just like she is doing at the moment. That's not easy to come to terms with for anyone, but it was a very sobering realization that I think a lot of people stumbled upon after the weekend ended.
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  #342  
Old 06-07-2012, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
As per usual I believe. There has been no announcement to say otherwise :)
Oh good! I do love seeing them all together at least once a year, hopefully this will continue through to Charles' reign.

On the subject of Camilla sitting next to the Queen I really don't see any fuss any more. I have a great aunt who I know if livid at the fact The Duchess of Cornwall was seated next to the Queen during the procession but she holds a huge grudge against both Charles and Camilla over what happened to Diana. As a 17 year old, I was initially a bit wary of Camilla because of what my family said about her and thought she would never be a 'proper' royal but as I have made my own opinion up and I think it rather fitting that HM and HRH sat together. Camilla has done remarkably well as a full-time member of the royal family and for people of my generation at least there won't be a problem when she becomes the Princess/Queen/whatever consort. I think we should just all feel for the Queen at not having Phillip next to her on that magic day.
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  #343  
Old 06-07-2012, 01:47 AM
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There are several ways the people in the carriages could have been arranged - the Queen could have sat alone w/ Charles and Camilla facing her, she could have sat next to Charles w/ Camilla facing them, she chose to have Camilla sit next to her. Camilla is reportedly a warm person, perhaps the Queen felt more comfortable with her there as opposed to sitting alone facing Camilla and Charles (her husband after all was in the hospital) much like the Queen chose to have a lady in waiting ride w/ her in the car to the service in place of Prince Phillip. It was the Queen's decision and I don't have a problem w/ her choice.
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  #344  
Old 06-07-2012, 05:08 AM
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The way people talk about Clarence House you would think that they sit with a gun to the Queen's head to make her do their bidding. That's painting CH and Charles as some sort of evil masterminds, but it also suggests that the Queen is a biddable push over.

The Queen is in charge at all times, that is without question. She does nothing that she doesn't feel is right or that she's not comfortable with. Camilla sat next to the Queen because that's the way the Queen wanted it. It really is that simple.

No doubt some Camilla hater out there will come up with some conspiracy theory that Clarence House somehow caused Philip's illness, meaning he missed the service and procession, and then bullied the Queen into letting Camilla sit beside her while convincing HM to banish the rest of her family from the balcony. This is utter rot. Charles will be King sooner rather than later; and Camilla will be Queen. The majority of people have accepted that, and for most Camilla's position next to the Queen really wasn't worthy of any comment whatsoever. Seeing Camilla at the heart of the royal family has become entirely normal, for most of us at least.

The Queen chose to use the final day of her Jubilee to demonstrate to the nation that she has confidence in Charles and Camilla, and William and Kate, taking the institution to which she has dedicated her life safely through the next half century. Some may not like that message, but it was clearly being made by the Queen who would not have made it had she not wanted to.
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  #345  
Old 06-07-2012, 05:57 AM
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Here here EIIR.
In my opinion, quite simply, it is only polite to ensure that the ladies in a carriage are able to face forward rather than backwards.

Also, could we please stop writing the Queen off saying she in the final part of her reign? This is, to say the least, rather jumping the gun abit because we have the Platinum Jubilee to look forward to in ten years time......so we're hardly coming to the final phase of her reign yet!
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  #346  
Old 06-07-2012, 09:29 AM
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I don't see anyone writing the Queen off. We are just expressing our feelings on the bittersweet tone of this Jubilee and discussing the symbolism of having only her immediate heirs in the procession and balcony appearance on the final day. The reality is the Queen is 84 years old, and by the next Jubliee will be 94. She may very well continue to enjoy robust, injure free health for the next 10 years and be with us for the next Jubilee and beyond. However, things can change very quickly at this stage of life and I think the Queen being a very practical and realistic individual, is preparing her family and her subjects to this. William stated that he has a big decision to make regarding his RAF career very soon, which indicates that there have been discussions going on behind the scenes involving his and Catherine's roles in the process. JMO of course.
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  #347  
Old 06-07-2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tea-n-tiaras View Post
...I know that the Queen has the final say on everything, but I am sure Buckingham Palace is regularly and strongly lobbied by Clarence House to promote Charles for the good of the monarchy...
I'm not sre how you came to the conclusion that the Queen had no say in any part in any of these decisions and that it was all the evil deeds of Clarence House. You obviously have no idea of the power the Queen holds over her own family and staff, including Clarence House. As William has stated , her word is the final word and you don't argue with it.

This was the Queen's weekend and her desires were at the forefront of any and all preperation and execution, including who sat, walked and stood where and who was included in what. You may not like Camilla, but it is very apparent that the Queen has embraced her as her son's wife and future Queen Consort, and wanted to make her station within the Royal Family very clear by seating her next to her person in the carriage procession. If the Queen did not want Camilla in that carriage or seated next to her, then you can bet your last pound, she would not have been there. If she wanted her entire family on that balcony, they would all have been there.
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  #348  
Old 06-07-2012, 11:00 AM
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  #349  
Old 06-07-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Here here EIIR.
In my opinion, quite simply, it is only polite to ensure that the ladies in a carriage are able to face forward rather than backwards.

Also, could we please stop writing the Queen off saying she in the final part of her reign? This is, to say the least, rather jumping the gun abit because we have the Platinum Jubilee to look forward to in ten years time......so we're hardly coming to the final phase of her reign yet!
In 10 years time, given the fact that the Queen and the DoE are 86 and 91 (on Sunday) and still have remarkable strength and stamina, the fact remains that they both are still quite elderly. I think that with the health scare last December, they both have come to the stark realization that it is time to slow down. Over the next 10 years we are definitely going to see Charles and Camilla take over more and more engagements for the Queen and DoE and the younger Wales step into full time duties (at least William and Kate will). I cannot for the life of me see these beloved octogenarians continuing at the pace that they have been. To stress this fact, when Queen Victoria had her Diamond Jubilee celebration, it was held in front of St. Paul's for reason being she was too frail to ascend the steps. She was 78 at the time.

The Queen obviously believes that Camilla is going to make an excellent Queen Consort for Charles and thanks for pointing out that a gentleman ensures that a lady faces forward in the carriage. That had never occurred to me. Since their marriage in 2005, the public has been able to see what kind of stuff the Duchess of Cornwall is made of and as people have been able to get to know her, they've found her to be a warm, down to earth likeable person and have definitely noticed how good she is for Charles.

I sincerely do hope we celebrate a Platinum jubilee in 10 years time too.
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  #350  
Old 06-07-2012, 07:24 PM
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I think the HM has come to the understanding that Camilla is totally devoted to the PoW. She has the same interest he has, and supports the same causes he does, with a couple on her own. She understands that the Dutchess supports Charles in the same way the DoE has supported her. She realizes how important a support system is, and for Charles to successfully follow in her foot step he needs and deserves it. Shes looking into the future and she showed it on Tuesday.
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  #351  
Old 06-07-2012, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Here here EIIR.
In my opinion, quite simply, it is only polite to ensure that the ladies in a carriage are able to face forward rather than backwards.

Also, could we please stop writing the Queen off saying she in the final part of her reign? This is, to say the least, rather jumping the gun abit because we have the Platinum Jubilee to look forward to in ten years time......so we're hardly coming to the final phase of her reign yet!
I don't think it's writing the Queen off, I think we all just have to remember she is getting older and despite her huge and admirable stamina she will have to slow down eventually and won't be able to continue doing what she has done. The DoE is also not getting any younger - he's been hospitalised twice in 6 months - which I think says something. I believe we will soon start to see the number of overseas visits decrease ever so slightly, for instance. I'm usually the first to rubbish reports that the Queen will never again come to Australia etc. but I'm starting to think that after last year's trip they may be right.

On a related note, does anyone know how the Queen Mother scaled back her public duties as she got older? This may give us a clue as to whether to Queen will indeed keep pressing on full steam ahead for the next few years.
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  #352  
Old 06-07-2012, 11:21 PM
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Not sure if this has been posted already...but, if so, it cannot hurt to see it again!

I was on the Mall when this came over the loudspeakers and I do not think I was alone in tearing up while listening to it.

So beautiful.

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  #353  
Old 06-08-2012, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
I don't see anyone writing the Queen off. We are just expressing our feelings on the bittersweet tone of this Jubilee and discussing the symbolism of having only her immediate heirs in the procession and balcony appearance on the final day. The reality is the Queen is 84 years old, and by the next Jubliee will be 94. She may very well continue to enjoy robust, injure free health for the next 10 years and be with us for the next Jubilee and beyond. However, things can change very quickly at this stage of life and I think the Queen being a very practical and realistic individual, is preparing her family and her subjects to this. William stated that he has a big decision to make regarding his RAF career very soon, which indicates that there have been discussions going on behind the scenes involving his and Catherine's roles in the process. JMO of course.
You have helped illustrate part of what I observed in watching the weekend's events. I was left with a BITTERSWEET feeling. The reason was that instead of CELEBRATING HER MAJESTY, those in charge chose to tack on marketing and promoting the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall. This was in my opinion distasteful and heavy handed. The transition of duties from the Queen to Prince Charles will take place gradually and over time as necessary. That transition will be evident to all as we watch it occur. It was not necessary to force feed Prince Charles as next in line while we were trying to celebrate our current and beloved Queen Elizabeth II. This should have been her moment. It should have been about her. It was unsettling. The atmosphere was not supposed to be "Oh dear, she won't be Queen forever. One day Prince Charles will be King. Nothing good ever lasts forever." It was supposed to be "Hip, Hip, Hooray! We have a Brilliant Queen! 60 Years on the Throne! Good Show! We Love You! Long May You Reign! We Can't wait for the Platinum Jubilee" All of the positioning of Prince Charles and excluding the rest of Her Majesty's family was out of place. It felt ODD and manipulative. And instead of Joy it created Bittersweet.
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  #354  
Old 06-08-2012, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley View Post
Oh good! I do love seeing them all together at least once a year, hopefully this will continue through to Charles' reign.

On the subject of Camilla sitting next to the Queen I really don't see any fuss any more. I have a great aunt who I know if livid at the fact The Duchess of Cornwall was seated next to the Queen during the procession but she holds a huge grudge against both Charles and Camilla over what happened to Diana. As a 17 year old, I was initially a bit wary of Camilla because of what my family said about her and thought she would never be a 'proper' royal but as I have made my own opinion up and I think it rather fitting that HM and HRH sat together. Camilla has done remarkably well as a full-time member of the royal family and for people of my generation at least there won't be a problem when she becomes the Princess/Queen/whatever consort. I think we should just all feel for the Queen at not having Phillip next to her on that magic day.
My point exactly. For many people, like your great aunt, seeing Camilla sitting next to Queen Elizabeth II made them upset. It dredged up unpleasantness. The Queen's Diamond Jubilee is not the time to dredge up unpleasantness in a large portion of the population. And it is not just your great aunt's generation. That would include younger generations as well. By placing her there, they made Camilla an issue at a time where it was unnecessary.
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  #355  
Old 06-08-2012, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley View Post
I don't think it's writing the Queen off, I think we all just have to remember she is getting older and despite her huge and admirable stamina she will have to slow down eventually and won't be able to continue doing what she has done. The DoE is also not getting any younger - he's been hospitalised twice in 6 months - which I think says something. I believe we will soon start to see the number of overseas visits decrease ever so slightly, for instance. I'm usually the first to rubbish reports that the Queen will never again come to Australia etc. but I'm starting to think that after last year's trip they may be right.

On a related note, does anyone know how the Queen Mother scaled back her public duties as she got older? This may give us a clue as to whether to Queen will indeed keep pressing on full steam ahead for the next few years.
For a few years now I have been trying to compare the Queen and the Queen Mother in terms of age, health etc. I'm not sure how much the Queen Mother scaled back her public duties as she got older. She was 86 years of age in 1986 and certainly was still carrying out duties through the 1990's.
Someone I know said they thought the Queen would abdicate when Philip dies and so I was rather defensive about the whole thing yesterday, and whilst I know her intention is not to abdicate, the thought of her not reigning forever fills me with horror.
So I guess people are right to start thinking along the lines of "preparing for the future" etc and I suppose I will have to get used to it.
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  #356  
Old 06-08-2012, 02:05 AM
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I'm not sre how you came to the conclusion that the Queen had no say in any part in any of these decisions and that it was all the evil deeds of Clarence House. You obviously have no idea of the power the Queen holds over her own family and staff, including Clarence House. As William has stated , her word is the final word and you don't argue with it.

This was the Queen's weekend and her desires were at the forefront of any and all preperation and execution, including who sat, walked and stood where and who was included in what. You may not like Camilla, but it is very apparent that the Queen has embraced her as her son's wife and future Queen Consort, and wanted to make her station within the Royal Family very clear by seating her next to her person in the carriage procession. If the Queen did not want Camilla in that carriage or seated next to her, then you can bet your last pound, she would not have been there. If she wanted her entire family on that balcony, they would all have been there.
I never stated that The Queen had no part in these decisions. I never stated that Clarence House was committing "evil deeds." With the exception of one who personally knows The Queen or works for Her Majesty, I "obviously" have just as much idea as any other royal watcher as to the power The Queen holds over her family and staff. I have been a keen observer of all things Royal for decades. I am also aware that a mother often listens to and is influenced by the desires and wishes of her children. I am also aware that it would be reasonable for a monarch to be interested in and persuaded to act to protect the future of the monarchy. Many times individuals set aside their personal wants for the desires or perceived benefit of others/organizatons/institutions, etc. The Queen has done things she did not "want" to and changed long standing traditions before because she was convinced it was the best course of action for the time. (An example would be Diana, Princess of Wales' funeral)

As to what is "apparent" about The Queen's relationship with Camilla, that is difficult to read. As to Her Majesty having "embraced" Camilla as "Queen Consort," I do not think anyone but her immediate and closest circle would even be able to venture a conclusion. And, I thought we were promised Camilla would be known as "Princess Consort." Maybe The Queen still "embraces" that idea. Her Majesty has never spoken on the subject. What is "apparent" to me is that the Prince of Wales' position is weak enough that his Mummy feels the need to promote him during the celebration of her Diamond Jubilee in a well calculated move to hopefully transfer some of her popularity and good will to him. And, I would bet my last pound that he did not mind.
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  #357  
Old 06-08-2012, 03:14 AM
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As to what is "apparent" about The Queen's relationship with Camilla, that is difficult to read. As to Her Majesty having "embraced" Camilla as "Queen Consort," I do not think anyone but her immediate and closest circle would even be able to venture a conclusion. And, I thought we were promised Camilla would be known as "Princess Consort." Maybe The Queen still "embraces" that idea. Her Majesty has never spoken on the subject. What is "apparent" to me is that the Prince of Wales' position is weak enough that his Mummy feels the need to promote him during the celebration of her Diamond Jubilee in a well calculated move to hopefully transfer some of her popularity and good will to him. And, I would bet my last pound that he did not mind.
1. Could you please stop "yelling"!

2. I would venture to guess that as an American you were promised nothing. In point of fact, none of us were promised anything!

3. It is apparent from your "Mummy" comment that you didn't and still don't get either the point or the "in" joke.

4. The notion that popularity is somehow "transferable" is ludicrous in the extreme and, if there is one thing HM is not, it is ludicrous! You insult her intelligence in the meanest way possible.

Actually, the first casualties of your venom against both Charles and Camilla are the Queen and Prince Philip. In your rush to accuse "Clarence House" of pressuring HM, and manipulating the Diamond Jubilee to increase their popularity (), you portray our Queen and her Consort as ineffectual old duffers and that HM without Philip is a somewhat pathetic puppet figure, bullied and helpless without her husband to pull her strings.

What is undoubtably true is that HM is 86 years old. We hope we will see her celebrate her Platinum Jubilee but understand that that is in God's hands. We also understand the Monarchy and that means that when, and I do say when, HM dies, Charles will become King.

Unlike Presidents and Politicians, popularity is not an issue, law is.
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  #358  
Old 06-08-2012, 04:34 AM
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I'd like to add to your post Marg that as the wife of the King Camilla will automatically become Queen consort whatever her title. That is unless Parliament passes a law to deprive her of her position.

But this is way off thread, I apologise mods.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tea-n-tiaras View Post
You have helped illustrate part of what I observed in watching the weekend's events. I was left with a BITTERSWEET feeling. The reason was that instead of CELEBRATING HER MAJESTY, those in charge chose to tack on marketing and promoting the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall.
The Queen was in charge. Who of her family members she decided to "promote" was entirely up to her.
And how exactly were Charles and Camilla promoted anyway? As the most senior royals after the Queen and Prince Philip, of course they were going to be in centre of most occasions. They took part in the same events as the rest of the family, apart from the final part of the last day. Were they promoted by the fact Her Majesty chose to ride with them in a carriage? Would you rather her be alone or invite someone else so that, Heaven's forbid, people didn't think she actually likes the company of her first-born son and his wife? The balcony appearance was planned months in advance and we knew only the Wales family would be present, apart from the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh.

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The transition of duties from the Queen to Prince Charles will take place gradually and over time as necessary. That transition will be evident to all as we watch it occur.
The transition has been occurring for the past several years. Prince Charles (along with his siblings and their spouses) takes more roles and responsibilities from his parents every day. The Queen is 86; how more gradually can any transition take place?

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It was not necessary to force feed Prince Charles as next in line while we were trying to celebrate our current and beloved Queen Elizabeth II. This should have been her moment. It should have been about her. It was unsettling. The atmosphere was not supposed to be "Oh dear, she won't be Queen forever. One day Prince Charles will be King. Nothing good ever lasts forever." It was supposed to be "Hip, Hip, Hooray! We have a Brilliant Queen! 60 Years on the Throne! Good Show! We Love You! Long May You Reign! We Can't wait for the Platinum Jubilee"
From what I've seen, from what everyone around the world has seen, in no way did anyone overshadow Her Majesty during the celebrations. On the contrary, he supported her, but always made sure the Queen is in the centre of attention. Even his touching and beautiful tribute during the concert was prepared in a manner that echoed respect and admiration for his parents in every word.

Quote:
All of the positioning of Prince Charles and excluding the rest of Her Majesty's family was out of place. It felt ODD and manipulative. And instead of Joy it created Bittersweet.
Again, you are blaming Prince for the Queen's decision. She wanted the focus to be on her successor and his family. She's the one who makes all the decision.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:20 AM
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1. Could you please stop "yelling"!

2. I would venture to guess that as an American you were promised nothing. In point of fact, none of us were promised anything!

3. It is apparent from your "Mummy" comment that you didn't and still don't get either the point or the "in" joke.

4. The notion that popularity is somehow "transferable" is ludicrous in the extreme and, if there is one thing HM is not, it is ludicrous! You insult her intelligence in the meanest way possible.

Actually, the first casualties of your venom against both Charles and Camilla are the Queen and Prince Philip. In your rush to accuse "Clarence House" of pressuring HM, and manipulating the Diamond Jubilee to increase their popularity (), you portray our Queen and her Consort as ineffectual old duffers and that HM without Philip is a somewhat pathetic puppet figure, bullied and helpless without her husband to pull her strings.

What is undoubtably true is that HM is 86 years old. We hope we will see her celebrate her Platinum Jubilee but understand that that is in God's hands. We also understand the Monarchy and that means that when, and I do say when, HM dies, Charles will become King.

Unlike Presidents and Politicians, popularity is not an issue, law is.
I was not yelling. I was highlighting words in the quote to which I was referring. No venom here. Just assessing the way things appeared in my opinion. I most certainly do not view Her Majesty as in any way lacking in intelligence or as an old duffer. I think she is quite astute.

I get that Prince Charles calls her "Mummy." (that was not yelling by the way) I can phrase it differently.What is "apparent" to me is that the Prince of Wales' position is weak enough that his [mother] feels the need to promote him during the celebration of her Diamond Jubilee in a well calculated move to hopefully transfer some of her popularity and good will to him.

The attempt to transfer popularity to others is a frequent occurrence and not the least bit ludicrous. That is the reason politicians get popular figures to campaign for them. That is the reason causes enlist the help of popular figures to champion causes. The idea is that if this well loved and admired figure is for this person then I should be also.

I am well aware that it is the law that determines who the next king will be, so I didn't need to see the "transfer of power" skit acted out for me. I came to the festivities to celebrate the present.
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