Diamond Jubilee Luncheon & Dinner for the World's Monarchs - 18 May 2012

[Baroness of Books]

Originally Posted by Artemisia

I am trying to find the picture again (didn't think to save it), but meanwhile if you check out the YouTube video below at 1:15, you'll see her curtseying to Crown Princess Margareta.

This is fine, please don't go to the trouble to find the photo. I like seeing her do a video dip rather than a still image of it. Thank you very much!

[maria-olivia]

Thanks Prince Radu to provide great pictures of HM King Michel and your wife HRH the Crown Princess.

[auntie]

Sorry to delve into this conversation yet again, I still don't understand why charlene is expected to curtesy to a HRH, who is "only" a prince/ess, whilst she is married to a reigning sovereign?

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by auntie

Sorry to delve into this conversation yet again, I still don't understand why charlene is expected to curtesy to a HRH, who is "only" a prince/ess, whilst she is married to a reigning sovereign?

She is not.
By protocol, Charlene isn't obliged to curtsey to anyone but Sovereign. Thus, she should curtsey to Queen Elizabeth (who has higher ranks a Head of State), but not Prince Philip (who is of equal rank). She actually outranks Prince Charles (a Heir Apparent), and as such most certainly didn't have to curtsey to him; she chose to do so out of respect. Similarly, Crown Princess Mette-Marit chose to curtsey to the Duchess of Cornwall although she didn't have to; they have equal rank.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by auntie

Sorry to delve into this conversation yet again, I still don't understand why charlene is expected to curtesy to a HRH, who is "only" a prince/ess, whilst she is married to a reigning sovereign?

And again, she didn't have to, she chose to out of respect.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Artemisia

She is not.
By protocol, Charlene isn't obliged to curtsey to anyone but Sovereign. Thus, she should curtsey to Queen Elizabeth (who has higher ranks a Head of State), but not Prince Philip (who is of equal rank). She actually outranks Prince Charles (a Heir Apparent), and as such most certainly didn't have to curtsey to him; she chose to do so out of respect. Similarly, Crown Princess Mette-Marit chose to curtsey to the Duchess of Cornwall although she didn't have to; they have equal rank.

So, if what you are saying is correct, the Duchess of Cornwall should have curtsied to Charlene and the Duchess of Cambridge too?

Because as the wife of a sovereign Charlene outranks both of them.

[Baroness of Books]

That sounds correct to me.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

So, if what you are saying is correct, the Duchess of Cornwall should have curtsied to Charlene and the Duchess of Cambridge too? Because as the wife of a sovereign Charlene outranks both of them.

That's right.
Both the Duchess of Cambridge and the Duchess of Cornwall curtseyed to Charlene, at least according to reports, pictures and videos.
Kate certainly curtseyed to all royal who outranked her, including Crown Princess Margareta of Romania - a royal from now defunct Monarchy. Similarly, Camilla curtseyed to all Heads of State and their spouses (I'm assuming, including Charlene). Charlene curtseyed to Prince Charles out of respect, not because she had to. Most royal women who hold equal rank to Prince Charles usually curtsey to him.

[NGalitzine]

I think a lot of royal ladies caught a case of the nods and bobs, probably since it has been so long since there has been such a large and distinguished gathering in the UK and because protocol is much lest strict than in by gone times. Charlene certainly was curtseying to people she did not need to including the Duke of Kent, and to a lesser extend I believe the same could be said of the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge.

[Moonmaiden23]

So Charlene and Camilla curtsied to one another??!

Or did Charlene only curtsy to the Prince of Wales?

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

So Charlene and Camilla curtsied to one another??!
Or did Charlene only curtsy to the Prince of Wales?

Charlene didn't curtsey to Camilla, although Camilla probably did curtsey to her. Charlene only curtseyed to Prince Charles and Prince Philip our of respect, and Queen Elizabeth because she had to. I think a lot of the younger royals (and by that I mean the royals of Charlene and Kate's age) curtseyed to older royals out of respect, even if they didn't have to.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

the Duchess of Cornwall should have curtsied to Charlene and the Duchess of Cambridge too?

May not be reading that right but, Camilla does not have to curtsey to Catherine.

[Moonmaiden23]

No, I didn't mean that. I meant that both Cambridge and Cornwall should have curtsied to Charlene.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

May not be reading that right but, Camilla does not have to curtsey to Catherine.

I know I'm nitpicking, but there is a situation now when Camilla would have to curtsey to Kate.
If Prince Charles is absent, but Prince William, Kate and Camilla are present, than Kate actually outranks Camilla through her (present) husband's rank, and the latter would have to curtsey to her (although I can't imagine that ever happening). Obviously, if Prince Charles is present, or only the two women are present, than Camilla outranks Kate, and the latter has to curtsey to her.

Sorry, I do love little protocol details like this.
Incidentally, I think this whole discussion should be moved to Protocol thread.

[Lumutqueen]

In the situation presented to them at the luncheon, Camilla did not have to curtsey. Which is what I said. I know few protocol details myself.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

In the situation presented to them at the luncheon, Camilla did not have to curtsey. Which is what I said. I know few protocol details myself.

I've noticed that; you are always very knowledgeable.
Protocol rules are quite interesting, aren't they? Especially royal protocol.

[NGalitzine]

I remember reading an interview with one of the court officials at the time of Williams wedding. He said they frequently gets requests for a copy of the protocol book and he tells them there is no such thing at Buckingham Palace. To them it is simply a case of following good manners and making adjustments for what seems practical and logical for each event but that nothing is carved in stone.
I think the last time the BRF really followed what might be termed strict protocol was for the Queen Mothers funeral.

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by MagMil

Here is video footage from the lunch in 1:19 is part with Queen Beatrix and Queen Elizabeth
RTL XL

The lady behind Queen Beatrix is Mrs. Ietje (Marie) van Karnebeek-van Lede, a lady-in-waiting of the Queen.

[soapstar]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

So Charlene and Camilla curtsied to one another??!

Or did Charlene only curtsy to the Prince of Wales?

Charlene curtsied to both Charles and Camilla. Here's a video of it.

Home - ITNSource News - it's under Jubilee Banquet at Buckingham Palace.

[Artemisia]

That video is really weird.
Not only did Charlene curtsey to Charles and Camilla (when she most definitely didn't have to), but the latter didn't curtsey to either. On the other hand, Camilla did curtsey to not only all other Heads of State and their spouses (which was appropriate), but also Crown Princess Margareta of Romania (which could be call appropriative because despite both being Crown Princesses, woman to woman Margareta does outrank Camilla), but also Crown Princess of Thailand - her equal.

On another note, Camilla's gown looks beautiful in the video; pictures really didn't do it a justice.