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  #361  
Old 05-19-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
But the Greeks, I believe, have always been touchy about Constantine. They refuse to give him a passport while he continues to style himself as King of the Hellenes.
I have a problem with all ex-royals being referred to as HRH King, Prince, Princess etc.
When I see them being referred to as such I want to scream "EX, EX, EX"
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  #362  
Old 05-19-2012, 01:21 PM
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I think the British monarchy pretty much goes with the philosophy of "once a monarch always a monarch". Not so very different than former American presidents still being called President.
I might need to re-think how I feel about ex-royals so as I still refer to to JFK and Bill Clinton as President Kennedy and President Clinton.
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  #363  
Old 05-19-2012, 01:43 PM
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Must have been a very interesting luncheon & dinner.
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  #364  
Old 05-19-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I think the British monarchy pretty much goes with the philosophy of "once a monarch always a monarch". Not so very different than former American presidents still being called President. If the Greeks were to kick up a stink right now about their former kings attendance at Windsor I don't think they would get much sympathy from the British population given the Greeks domestic turmoil..
That seems to be a bit of an American thing, and I've always found it weird.

There's been a meeting of heads of government of the G8 in Camp David this weekend. No one in their right mind would think of inviting former President Clinton, or the former President Sarkozy just because they personally like them or don't want them to feel left out.

I guess what it all comes down to is, like Breffney, I'm not really comfortable with the whole ex-royal thing. To me, the legitimacy of any individual's royal title comes from the people of the the particular country in question. If the people of that country have seen fit to end the monarchical system, then that legitimacy is gone and that should be respected. To try and claim otherwise is just self-delusion.
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  #365  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:41 PM
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Being royal and the title/rank you have is something you are born with and remain so all your life. Constantine became a king and will always hold the rank of king whether or not he reigns although Pavlos will always remain Crown Prince even when his father dies.
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  #366  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:47 PM
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So, by that standard, the Duke of Windsor should have been referred to as King Edward VIII even after he abdicated. Surely if it's something you're born with, something that's inherent in you that you never lose, how can you sign it away with a signature on a piece of paper?
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  #367  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:54 PM
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Well Michael abdicated with a gun to his head so that probably should not count. Simeon was a little boy when the monarchy was overthrown by the communists so he never signed an act of abdication. Constantine has never abdicated.
Edward VIII willingly abdicated and assumed a new title as a royal duke. The monarchy was never overthrown and continued in a new line, the throne of the UK was never vacant.
Roumania. Bulgaria, Greece never placed a new monarch on the throne, so Michael, Simeon and Constantine remain kings, albeit without thrones.
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  #368  
Old 05-19-2012, 03:30 PM
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Does that mean that Pavlos will be regarded as King of the Hellenes when his father dies? And will his son be allowed to call himself King when Pavlos dies?
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  #369  
Old 05-19-2012, 03:54 PM
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Just wondering, why did Charlene, pss of Monaco have to curtesy to Charles if she is the wife ofa reigning sovereign ? Who did Catherine curtesy to dressed in red?
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  #370  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by auntie
Just wondering, why did Charlene, pss of Monaco have to curtesy to Charles if she is the wife ofa reigning sovereign ? Who did Catherine curtesy to dressed in red?
She didn't have to curtsey, it was a sign of respect. I don't know which picture has Catherine curtsying but the only lady i recall in red was Crown Princess Margareta of Romania.
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  #371  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:18 PM
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Just wondering, why did Charlene, pss of Monaco have to curtesy to Charles if she is the wife ofa reigning sovereign ? Who did Catherine curtesy to dressed in red?
I've just touched on this subject on the styles and titles thread a few minutes ago. As the wife of a Sovereign Princess Charlene did not have to curtsey to Charles or Camilla.The only people she, by protocol, should curtsey to are monarchs and their spouses or non-monarchical heads of state who are HRHs e.g. the Grand Duke of Luxembourg as HRH outranks her own title of HSH.
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  #372  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:22 PM
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I don't know which picture has Catherine curtsying but the only lady i recall in red was Crown Princess Margareta of Romania.
I think that it was Margareta that she curtseyed to. This has set me off again.

Curtseying to people who aren't "real royals" anymore.
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  #373  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:26 PM
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But who nevertheless outranks Kate.
As a Crown Princess, Margarita holds precedence over all members of the British Royal Family except the Queen, Prince Philip, Prince Charles and Camilla.
It is quite silly considering Romania is no longer a Monarchy; however, monarchies operate their own protocol rules and the Duchess of Cambridge merely followed them. I would imagine she also curtseyed to all Monarchs and their spouses present. At the dinner, Camilla curtseyed to Queen Anne Marie and Queen Margarita as well (as well as all other Monarchs and their consorts).
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  #374  
Old 05-19-2012, 04:36 PM
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I'm now thinking that being an ex-royal is the best thing to be. You get all of the perks (curtseying, invites to all the royal occasions) without any of the hassles of being a reigning royal.
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  #375  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:23 PM
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Everything looks as it went well, Queens Beatrix, rania, Margarethe II, silvia looked nice. It was nice seeing the monarchs together to celebrate HMs diamond jubilee.
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  #376  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:26 PM
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I might need to re-think how I feel about ex-royals so as I still refer to to JFK and Bill Clinton as President Kennedy and President Clinton.
Its a courtesy title - someone who has given political service in the US is usually given the courtsey of the last highest elected position they held. So someone who was once a Mayor of a city - and no higher - would be addressed as Mayor in retirement. If the Mayor became a Governor of a state - and no more - then ever after he/she would be called Governor even if he or she served subsequently as a State Senator (within the state, not in D.C.). If someone served as a US Senator (in D.C.) and a Governor, too - I'm not sure which title takes precedence - since Governor is at a state level and a US Senator is at a federal level, though a Governor wields more authority. 'Tuf call there.

So it is with a President - highest office in the land so it takes precedence on all previous titles and all previous Presidents are therefore given the courtesy title of President in retirement.

Hillary Clinton has not only been a U.S. Senator but a Secretary of State - both are at the federal level, but I believe in retirement she will be referred to as Senator Clinton.

Ambassadorships are a bit tricky. If one was a U.S. Senator I think that Senator still trumps the title Ambassador. I think being elected - rather than appointed - is of consequence - so Senator would out-rank Madame Secretary and Ambassador.

This goes along with the Military - where one is always referred to at one's rank (plus-one-up) at retirement. Not sure if President out-tiltles General - Eisenhower is referred to equally it seems as President and General.

So I would think the courtesy titles for Royalty would follow in the same way - one would retain the title when one was last in 'active service', in a manner of speaking.
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  #377  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:53 PM
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Not sure if President out-tiltles General - Eisenhower is referred to equally it seems as President and General.
I would think a President - as Supreme Commander - outranks every other military rank, including General.
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  #378  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:03 PM
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I would think a President - as Supreme Commander - outranks every other military rank, including General.
You are correct, Artemisia. You are sure smart - I'm always impressed.
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  #379  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:07 PM
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I would think a President - as Supreme Commander - outranks every other military rank, including General.
Supreme Commander is a title, General is a rank. Two very different things.
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  #380  
Old 05-19-2012, 08:09 PM
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Lunch > The Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor: Royal Fashion Awards: The Jubilee Sovereigns' Luncheon
Dinner > The Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor: Royal Fashion Awards: The Jubilee Sovereigns' Dinner
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