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  #61  
Old 07-04-2011, 07:16 AM
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I agree Caroline didn't look very happy. Maybe she feels there's nothing to be happy about a business deal?

I didn't like how Prince Albert's wedding speech was more about how the marriage would be good for Monaco....it was more like a plug for Monaco....there are times and places to talk about that, not on his wedding day.
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  #62  
Old 07-04-2011, 07:21 AM
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Caroline's had a good deal of time to get accustomed to the fact, and deal with it. I don't for a moment believe her supposedly 'unimpressed demeanour' reflects her contempt for what was always the reality of the situation should have Albert wed.

It's easy to suggest reasons when theres such a limited number of possible causes known to those who are unknown to them. Naturally, people profess that 'it must be this', or 'it must be that' when really 'we' have no clue because we do not know them, nor do we know the nature of their relationships nor the way they think or what they are infact thinking about. Creating a reason doesn't make it true nor does it necessarily have any weight to it. It's just gossip, and generally unfounded at that
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  #63  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by stanley View Post
The wedding wasn't a typical catholic one, I had one so I know how it goes. It was conceived as a show by adding the opera singers, etc. Also, they omitted the part where the Priest asks if someone knows a reason why the two people can't marry. This is present in all catholic weddings.
Probably because the legal marriage had already been done the previous day?
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  #64  
Old 07-04-2011, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by moby View Post
It was an elegant, well-planned and well-executed wedding but I'm not surprised that others will say it was gaudy and tacky. What I'm saying is I think no matter how hard the Grimaldis try, people are always going to find something to criticize about and will bring up predictable stuff people always bring up to bring down this family. The next generation is, so far, a very private and scandal-free bunch but I wonder if they're aware of how some people perceive their family. It's no wonder they hardly smile when photos of them are taken in such events. They seem almost defensive.
Good point! I hesitate to say it because I do think that, while much of the wedding was lovely, there were quite a few elements that I considered "gaudy and tacky." I kept thinking, excessive glitz, not real class. But perhaps I am being unfair because I have always viewed the Grimaldis as lacking class.
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  #65  
Old 07-04-2011, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotslass View Post
Probably because the legal marriage had already been done the previous day?
I have never heard this question in a catholic marraige in France.
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  #66  
Old 07-04-2011, 11:05 AM
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I have never heard this question in a catholic marraige in France.
Nor did I. I was married in a catholic wedding and this question is not a part of the ritual.
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  #67  
Old 07-04-2011, 11:18 AM
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Trying to go back to my initial feelings on this occasion.
The amount of royals present was great. It's always great to see the tiaras and swords out and about, reminds me of why royals are not celebs.
The dress. When she was walking down the aisle, that was a great vision...very statuesque.
Stephanie and Caroline were really touched when Albert arrived. To get marry without the presence of both, your mom and dad, must be hard, and I'm sure they thought of them during the ceremony.
Andrea Bocelli's Ave Maria was superb. I felt like standing up and clapping after he finished. ;P

When people say there were some lack of class, I have to admit in some parts there was , but that had to do a lot with some guests and not the direct party. For example , there were some, inside the Palace taking pictures with their Iphone and cameras. I cringed when I saw that. Some ladies didn't remember they were in a catholic wedding, and their attire didn't take that into account. But let's move on from the tight dresses and even tighter faces.
Charlene and Albert were very concentrated (we now wonder 'why'), but I wouldn't think they would act much differently anyways.
I'm all for subdue intimacy. And If you are not, you should move to another royal house, love!

Also, sorry but the 'they were not selling us an image' with 1254 interviews you bet your fanny they were selling one. But to buy it is up to you.

To end in a happy note, Charlene, dear! just in case you are a member of TRF and is reading this :P: all that was expected from YOUR PART was surpassed, you looked beautiful. Too bad others couldn't follow your league (That goes to your now husband)
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  #68  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Caroline's had a good deal of time to get accustomed to the fact, and deal with it. I don't for a moment believe her supposedly 'unimpressed demeanour' reflects her contempt for what was always the reality of the situation should have Albert wed.

It's easy to suggest reasons when theres such a limited number of possible causes known to those who are unknown to them. Naturally, people profess that 'it must be this', or 'it must be that' when really 'we' have no clue because we do not know them, nor do we know the nature of their relationships nor the way they think or what they are infact thinking about. Creating a reason doesn't make it true nor does it necessarily have any weight to it. It's just gossip, and generally unfounded at that
Everything we say here is just speculations and some reasons we try to find about the reactions and the sad/happy/nervous/blah blah.. expressions and faces the royals show to the public. If we knew what's the real problem and reason for them.. we would never ever write sth about it in here! I would personally keep it for myself. But, i do know that a picture equals with 1,000 words, as a saying goes.



Caro wasn't only sad. In my eyes i saw an angry woman. I don't think she really cared about the all deal thing. She gave the same interest to this as the one she gives to her sister. End of my reflections
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  #69  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:24 PM
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More to the point that people see what they wish to see

I don't necessarily disagree with all you have said in the first paragraph, I just find it somewhat amusing that a good many people voice their opinions as if they were facts. Needless to say, they are not.

I'm not suggesting it not be discussed, though all any of us can do is wait and see how this marriage pans out, be it for better or worse. Ony time holds that answer.
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  #70  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:39 PM
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My thoughts:

People are saying that Caroline appeared sad...has anyone considered that she might simply be very, very angry at this latest scandal and embarrassing publicity? She is a very proud and patriotic woman who despite some missteps in her personal life...has worked her tush off on behalf of Monaco..now this latest paternity scandal? She probably wants to give Albert a black eye. I suspect she feels badly for Charlene. I don't think she is upset about the succession...she has had a year to get used to it.

I did not see a sad bride..I saw a solemn, dignified, reflective but deeply happy one. For every look of "tension" there was one of affection and intimacy between Albert and Charlene...does anyone remember how gloomy and tense Rainier and Grace were at their wedding? Check out the photos.

Madame Royale nailed it...people who wanted to see an unhappy, tense bride saw just that..I genuinely did not see unhappiness.

I was surprised by the grandeur and majesty of the ceremony...I was expecting the circus but got a reverent, beautiful marriage rite done with all the solemnity that the Catholic Church reserves for these occasions.

Overrall, my expectations were surpassed.

ETA: I am an observant Catholic and have never been to a Catholic wedding where the celebrant asks anyone if they object...I consulted my missal to be sure. That is NOT part of the marriage rite in the American Catholic Church!
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  #71  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:44 PM
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I have a couple of questions:

#1 - Were Albert's children, Jazmin and Alexandre (along with his mother; Jazmin is old enough to travel alone) invited to the wedding? Whether they're out of wedlock or not, they are still his children.

#2 - Isn't Charlene's last name officially Grimaldi now?
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  #72  
Old 07-04-2011, 02:01 PM
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I thought The Illegits were "kept away" to avoid media attention being diverted onto them, etc. although the second baby-momma was spotted in Monaco a few days before the wedding.

I do agree that we all see what we want to see, and are probably projecting how we'd feel onto tv images and photographs. For all we know Pss Caroline could've been upset that Charlene went thru with it, and maybe she even tried to help Charlene bolt a time or two (or three). Charlene was essentially marrying a man who allegedly cheated on her once (or twice) while they were dating.
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  #73  
Old 07-04-2011, 02:04 PM
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This purpose of this thread is to reflect on the actual wedding not the events that IMO put a dark cloud over it. Those events should be discussed in this thread http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post1280761 .

At this point, I am starting to question the purpose of this thread, since no one seems to understand the subject topic.
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  #74  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Leslie2006 View Post
I have a couple of questions:

#1 - Were Albert's children, Jazmin and Alexandre (along with his mother; Jazmin is old enough to travel alone) invited to the wedding? Whether they're out of wedlock or not, they are still his children.

#2 - Isn't Charlene's last name officially Grimaldi now?
Yes--in fact she was referred to as Madame Grimaldi after the civil service by the mayor in his speech as well as Madame Princess.
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  #75  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:50 PM
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Nor did I. I was married in a catholic wedding and this question is not a part of the ritual.
Thats because you are already legally married by the time you get to the Church.
Presumably any religious impediments to the marriage had already been gone over by the priest beforehand so no objections on those grounds either.
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  #76  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:47 AM
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In the US we do not have a civil service. The church service is the legal service. You can have just a civil service if you desire, but there is no need for both. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the need for 2 ceremonies.
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  #77  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
In the US we do not have a civil service. The church service is the legal service. You can have just a civil service if you desire, but there is no need for both. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the need for 2 ceremonies.
This may have something to do with the Church being seperate from the State in France. So to become legally married under the laws of the French State you have to have a civil ceremony. Thereafter, if you want the marriage blessed under the eyes of God, you then have a Church blessing. Someone correct me if I've got this wrong! In the UK, getting married just in a church is legal - the church is part of the state. But the bride and groom sign two registers, one for the church records and one for filing at the registry of births, deaths and marriages (which covers the civil requirements of the state).
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  #78  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:11 AM
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Oh, in the U.S. the church is DEFINITELY separate from the state. Before a couple marries, they need to register for a marriage license. A wedding in a church is not recognized as legal, it is only legal if a marriage license was submitted and approved and after the wedding a marriage certificate was submitted. The certificate is usually signed by the one presiding over the ceremony (judge or religious official). There is no ceremony for the civil part however.

You request a marriage license, wait several days, and then you may marry. The license is good for anywhere from one month to a year. The license and certificate allows anyone to divorce for any reason so it protects some people from their church who may refuse to let them be divorced.
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  #79  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
This may have something to do with the Church being seperate from the State in France. So to become legally married under the laws of the French State you have to have a civil ceremony. Thereafter, if you want the marriage blessed under the eyes of God, you then have a Church blessing. Someone correct me if I've got this wrong! In the UK, getting married just in a church is legal - the church is part of the state. But the bride and groom sign two registers, one for the church records and one for filing at the registry of births, deaths and marriages (which covers the civil requirements of the state).
I think with the US separating church and state an ordained minister or whatever of a faith has the option to register with his/her state government in order to perform alongside with a religious ceremony the legal ceremony also with all the paperwork filled in appropriately for both types of marriages being the legal certificate of marriage and any religious documentation needed. Most active clergy have also been licensed by the government to perform both duties at one time.

Therefore on those lines with me personally, I could perform a handfasting in my tradition for a couple and it would be binding within my tradition but as I am not registered with the state I live in to perform legal marriages, they would also have to have a justice of the peace or another person legally empowered by law perform a ceremony.

As far as France goes, It well could be that clergy is not recognized as a means of granting a legal marriage.
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  #80  
Old 07-05-2011, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
This may have something to do with the Church being seperate from the State in France. So to become legally married under the laws of the French State you have to have a civil ceremony. Thereafter, if you want the marriage blessed under the eyes of God, you then have a Church blessing. Someone correct me if I've got this wrong! In the UK, getting married just in a church is legal - the church is part of the state. But the bride and groom sign two registers, one for the church records and one for filing at the registry of births, deaths and marriages (which covers the civil requirements of the state).
It is also like this in the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and Austria (and perhaps a few more Countries). But here in Germany you don't have to sgin a register at the religious Ceremony.
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