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  #261  
Old 07-20-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Mass? I'm confused? There needs to be mass when she got engaged?
This all sounds slightly out-dated, covering up your body because it belongs to God.
Anything that has to with the mind - and spirit always sounds outdated.Confusion and contrarianism are two different things explain how-- yes a mass was a possibilty as Catholicism is soo ingrained in Monaco as hibou told us - then it would have been appropriate- as for covering the body it is more dignified religion aside-.
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  #262  
Old 07-20-2010, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I didn't know, just because you wore a backless dress you were not spiritual? How does that work?
And why must she convert so her children can be raised catholic? Do her children have to be raised catholic, what if they don't want to?
Please take a moment to go read my post. It will put what I am about to say in context and I don't want to repeat what I have said before. In short, she does not have to convert BUT she will have to receive instruction and answer questions according to the Catholic faith. If she doesn't do this step, the church will NOT recognize the marriage. i.e. any kids they have will be considered illegitimate. So she must at least pass this portion. Second the kids MUST be brought up Catholic or be removed from the line of succession. If the kids don't want to be Catholic, they can be removed from the line of succession. Please go back and read the history I have given above.
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  #263  
Old 07-20-2010, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
Anything that has to with the mind - and spirit always sounds outdated.Confusion and contrarianism are two different things explain how-- yes a mass was a possibilty as Catholicism is soo ingrained in Monaco as hibou told us - then it would have been appropriate- as for covering the body it is more dignified religion aside-.
But just because she became a member of the Catholic faith, doesn't mean she should have to cover up her shoulders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hibou View Post
Please take a moment to go read my post. It will put what I am about to say in context and I don't want to repeat what I have said before. In short, she does not have to convert BUT she will have to receive instruction and answer questions according to the Catholic faith. If she doesn't do this step, the church will NOT recognize the marriage. i.e. any kids they have will be considered illegitimate. So she must at least pass this portion. Second the kids MUST be brought up Catholic or be removed from the line of succession. If the kids don't want to be Catholic, they can be removed from the line of succession. Please go back and read the history I have given above.
Seeing as I had no idea what your post was about and had no idea it had any connection to what I was asking then it's not my fault.
So basically they have the same system as in the UK, just a different religion.
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  #264  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
But just because she became a member of the Catholic faith, doesn't mean she should have to cover up her shoulders.



Seeing as I had no idea what your post was about and had no idea it had any connection to what I was asking then it's not my fault.
So basically they have the same system as in the UK, just a different religion.
Sort of in the sense that each has a state religion which must be adhered too. But in the Protestant case the spouse MUST convert or be taken out of line for succession. Peter's wife in order for him to remain in line, changed religions. Charlene does not have to change religions but pass the Catholic pre-marriage questions and agree to raise the kids Catholic. I'm sorry you missed my earlier post. I gave a bit of Monaco history. It's to her advantage to convert.
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  #265  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:28 PM
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Answer to post#264 pls go to www.vatican.ca and they will advise you further as to what Charlene may or may not do- converting to Catholicism is not about merely covering your shoulders- or back but much more and I am not a Catholic - I certainly would find this daunting.But Charlene has not ever let down before so I am certain she will not do so now-She is strongand capable and this maybe unfamiliar to her but I say it will be fine.
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  #266  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:31 PM
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But from what I can tell from Hibou's posts, Charlene does not have to convert fully into Catholicism, does she?
So why should she have to follow what she has to wear etc?

Are Caroline, Stephanie, Charlotte catholics?
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  #267  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:41 PM
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Everyone needs to understand that everyone is not of the same religion and for those of us who are not Catholic, we do not understand certain things (requirements, passages, etc.). So you might need to explain things for us.

I believe Charlotte is a Catholic. Both Stephanie and Caroline were raised in the Catholic faith (hence Caroline seeking an annulment for her 1st marriage). Since Caroline was born Catholic I can't imagine her not raising her Italian children in the Cathlic faith. Alexandra is still a Protestant as she remains in line to the British succession.

At various events I have seen them (Caroline and Stephanie) give the sign of the cross but I have also seen that at Anglican services in England so I can certainly understand the confusion.

I am assuming that people are thinking that once Charlene becomes Catholic as a sign of respect she will not be wear a strapless wedding gown but I could be wrong.
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  #268  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:41 PM
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All of the Grimaldis are baptized Catholics...with varying degrees of observance...just like in many Catholic families.

Both Caroline and Stephanie baptized their children as Catholics.(Caroline with the exception of Alexandra of Hanover)


As for the wearing of a strapless wedding gown at Mass...who knows?

Recently in the Luxembourg Ducal Family, one of the brides wore one(the young girl named Tessy who married Prince Louis) there was a lot of consternation...the Luxembourg Royals are very strict Catholics.

I don't find it appropriate, but it can and does happen.
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  #269  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:45 PM
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Well if Caroline, Stephanie and Charlotte are catholics, they should also abide by the not wearing strapless clothes, and covering up, which they haven't always done.

This whole linking religion to what clothes you wear is not neccesary IMO.
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  #270  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
But from what I can tell from Hibou's posts, Charlene does not have to convert fully into Catholicism, does she?
So why should she have to follow what she has to wear etc?

Are Caroline, Stephanie, Charlotte catholics?
NO she does not but it would help and she has to pass as hibou said those questions for her childrens sake if she did not convert..The Vatican and CW might therefore be strained- and I doubt she would risk or do that ever because I do believe CW has the best interests of Monaco at heart.
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  #271  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Everyone needs to understand that everyone is not of the same religion and for those of us who are not Catholic, we do not understand certain things (requirements, passages, etc.). So you might need to explain things for us.

I believe Charlotte is a Catholic. Both Stephanie and Caroline were raised in the Catholic faith (hence Caroline seeking an annulment for her 1st marriage). Since Caroline was born Catholic I can't imagine her not raising her Italian children in the Cathlic faith. Alexandra is still a Protestant as she remains in line to the British succession.

At various events I have seen them (Caroline and Stephanie) give the sign of the cross but I have also seen that at Anglican services in England so I can certainly understand the confusion.

I am assuming that people are thinking that once Charlene becomes Catholic as a sign of respect she will not be wear a strapless wedding gown but I could be wrong.
It is confusing which is why I thought a bit of history might help. Religion with respect to royalty is still tied to the succession issues and that is where the confusion lies.
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  #272  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:48 PM
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Oh yes I understand that it would be in her best interest to pass this introduction stage is it?
But if she doesn't have to convert fully, she shouldn't be restricted in what she wears.
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  #273  
Old 07-20-2010, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Well if Caroline, Stephanie and Charlotte are catholics, they should also abide by the not wearing strapless clothes, and covering up, which they haven't always done.

This whole linking religion to what clothes you wear is not neccesary IMO.
I was only referring to Church when I posted about disapproving of strapless dresses...I have never seen Stephanie or Caroline attend Church dressed inappropiately.

Catholic women are NOT dictacted to with regard to clothing outside of Church or in...but like all Christians we are advised against immodesty.

Thank heaven for that...it has to do with reverence and respect.
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  #274  
Old 07-20-2010, 02:13 PM
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I wasn't referring to the post you wrote about wedding dresses, earlier on we had been Jaya had been talking about the clothes that she should wear when she becomes a Catholic, that doesn't mean just in church.

Dressing inappropriately in church should not be done, but wearing a strapless wedding dress isn't that controversial IMO.
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  #275  
Old 07-20-2010, 02:39 PM
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Well I think a strapless dress isnt controversial because its become so common. Once the shock wears off and everyone does it.....it lessens the shock value.

Personally, and I like to think that I am liberal, I don't find strapless gowns necessary in a church. But if we don't see all of your goods I guess some don't see the problem. If you are not too heavy on top, and the dress actually fits without showing all of your goodies maybe its not a problem. I love Diana, but that dress she wore with Grace (the black one) not appropriate in a church.
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  #276  
Old 07-20-2010, 03:20 PM
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For those interested in the nitty-gritty:

Nicene Creed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Includes the Filioque controversy)
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  #277  
Old 07-20-2010, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Well if Caroline, Stephanie and Charlotte are catholics, they should also abide by the not wearing strapless clothes, and covering up, which they haven't always done.

This whole linking religion to what clothes you wear is not neccesary IMO.
Catholicism doesn't really have rules on what you wear outside of church. In fact, we don't really have rules on what you wear inside church either. But I think for most Catholics, it is a matter of respect. You are in a place of worship, a "House of God", and should dress appropriately (which you could probably define as nothing overtly "provocative", though just how you define that I don't know either). I don't particularly care about the issue and think Charlene should wear what she wants but that would probably be the general Catholic view in my opinion.
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  #278  
Old 07-20-2010, 04:06 PM
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Too right, Thecia!

I think one of the reasons why PG's wedding dress has become so iconic, is its almost virginal quality - rather like a First Holy Communion.

I'm not suggesting that CW ought to dress like that, but a modicum of propriety would not go amiss!!
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  #279  
Old 07-20-2010, 04:50 PM
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Oh yes I understand that it would be in her best interest to pass this introduction stage is it?
But if she doesn't have to convert fully, she shouldn't be restricted in what she wears.
What is the expression, When in Rome do as the Romans do. If you are in a house of worship, you follow their customs whether you are of that religion or not. So if the Catholic church says a strapless wedding dress is fine, then it's fine. If you notice though most people have their shoulders covered during a religious service. I expect Charlene will too with some sort of shrug if the dress is strapless. She was covered for Victoria's wedding if you notice.
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  #280  
Old 07-20-2010, 04:51 PM
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Too right, Thecia!

I think one of the reasons why PG's wedding dress has become so iconic, is its almost virginal quality - rather like a First Holy Communion.

I'm not suggesting that CW ought to dress like that, but a modicum of propriety would not go amiss!!
IF you are you are Gypsy Rose Lee I find the strapless wedding gown a appropriate because tailors and sartorial experts died and took their secrets of how to attach a sleeve properly -[what is the pointof a strapless gown and a long train- how orthologistic is that?] hence the strapless wedding gown-Thanks Renata for that- Grace started by her wedding gown to put Monaco on the map-the success or failure of a marriage and what you are able to bring to it starts somewhere and I do hope propriety reigns.If that is a Catholic State then I would go with the traditions.Grace did not happen on to her wedding gown which has a historic ethic about it- she was it.So I hope Charlene steps into that role where she is "it".
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