William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2010

[Lady Ann]

^yes but they (the current crop of crownrinces/princesses) didn't date ten years. [/quote ]

Crown princess Victora dated 10 before marring.

 

[texankitcat]

They startd off in the same college and then, after becoming friends, joined with a few friends to share a house. I doubt if she would have been his flatmate if they weren't already friends. Even before that she had convinced him to stay at uni and finish his degree.

Timeline: Kate and William's royal romance | Mail Online

Thank you for posting the timeline. I think that helps put things in perspective as to the history of their relationship.

 

[RoseMary]

Will they be banished or something? I don't understand sometimes what is unwritten law or what is actual law that they can get in trouble for.

 

[Lady Ann]

Ok TLC program same,as always! Same pictures, same will they wont they, same Daina this and Diana that.

 

[windsorgirl]

Ok TLC program same,as always! Same pictures, same will they wont they, same Daina this and Diana that.

I just watched the TLC program, too, and was very surprised how much Diana figured into a show about Kate and William's relationship. It was even suggested that William would propose to Kate with Diana's engagement ring. (unlikely IMO). Also, a nitpicky error, they referred to Sarah McCorquodale as Diana's aunt instead of her sister or even William's aunt. Well, they got me to watch anyway.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I just watched the TLC program, too, and was very surprised how much Diana figured into a show about Kate and William's relationship. It was even suggested that William would propose to Kate with Diana's engagement ring. (unlikely IMO).

Extrememly unlikely - Harry took the ring and William her watch - any basic research will reveal that information.

 

[Kataryn]

We've had nearly 10 years to watch Kate do nothing.

I don't think we have seen Kate doing anything - so how can we be sure that she did nothing or what she did in private was not worthy? Living at home where the family operates a business in my experience means that you have to help. Okay, it's not shaping a career for herself but still it's not being completely lazy. Carole Middleton for me does not appear to be a mother who allows her children to be idle when she needs help. And in any business additional help is needed.

I think what makes a lot of people uneasy is that Kate seems to live the life of a Royal mistress not that of a future wife. That may be a generation thing but when I think back of a biography of Gabrielle "Coco" Chanel and how this gifted woman was treated by her ducal lover and his friends back in the middle of the last century, then I feel where this disdain for a lifestyle like Kate's originates from. But my point is: we only know the outside, we are not privy to their views, plans and reasons to be together like that.

 

[muriel]

hi, I'm new to the forums and this is one of my first posts, but I've been interested in the BRF for a long time.

I believe that William will marry Kate, but when? who knows till the engagement is made offcial. A lot of people wish they knew more about Kate but for me there is all known that needs to be known about her: she will be a very loyal wife to William and that's the most important thing. Other people , not only Royals, are never known completely to others, that's how it is. But with the Royals there is the need of the people to have a feeling that they know them and can trust them in order to accept them as "their" Royals. As this is impossible, people tend to watch the relationships of the Royals in order to guess if they are worthy of their peoples trust. Thus Diana was so dangerous: she betrayed the RF and showed herself to be most illoyal to her husband all in front of the public. Of course, she had her reasons for that (and I don't want to get into this discussion). But coming back to William and Kate: I'm sure William deeply loved his mother but as he grew up and realised who he is and how this shapes his life he must have understood that the most important thing for a future king is to command the loyality of his friends and environment. And how his mother's unwillingness to be loyal to her husband destroyed his father's image: how can the public trust a man whose own wife who is closest to him does not support and trust him? Camilla saved that image - she as the new wife has shown that Charles can be trusted and respected. So for me what William searched and found in Kate is a most loyal companion. And once they marry people will like Kate for this loyality, even though they won't know her and her William.

Kataryn, Welcome to TRF.


As you can see, this is a topic that gets a lot of people very impassioned. We welcome open and well thoght through debate on TRF, although as is probably apparent to you, not all of it is as intellectually robust as one may want it to.

I fully agree with your post, very well wrtitten.

 

[Lady Felicity M]

I had to laugh that tomrrow night my time, one of the news channels is doing this whole thing on William and Kaate and that the engadgment will be annouced any day now, I burst out laughing.... Don't get me wrong, think it will be good because it will be good to have it all out

 

[Kataryn]

Kataryn, Welcome to TRF.

Thank you very much, Muriel, for your nice welcome. Well, I for one like William and Kate. William especially after his graduation as an SAR-pilot.

We had a TV-series here in Germany called "Die Rettungsflieger - The SAR-crew" about the professional and private life of a crew of army-SAR personell where in the final installment of course the charismatic and charming pilot-officer got the flying doctoress (who held a militarian rank as well) and flew out into the sunset with her... Oh, what a job to show characteristics of a hero: be part of a crew turned friends through shared duty and adventure, be a highly qualified professional, help saving lifes, be comforting to patients and crew members... Oh, what better modern role for a prnce like William who once would have been the knight in shining armour but nowadays is not allowed on the battlefield anymore. It's only sad that so many people don't realise that such a SAR-job can only come from personal merit, not inherited priviledge. And that William is a worthy member of society giving back as much as he can.

As for Kate: maybe it' because I have some friends who are army-wifes and I myself for a time in my love trotted after my husband when his career demanded his full attention and the only chance of having at least a bit of family life was to be there when he had time - which made my own work life a bit difficult but then with his income we could afford it and it wasn't forever. But I think this is what Kate does while trying to attract as less public resonance as possible so that she isn't again pressured by the media into an engagement that should come at their own timing.

My judgement (as far as I feel I have a right to judge) of Kate is completely open now, but of course "in dubio pro reo" - in case of doubts and there are many doubts I opt for the positive version about her doings. Once she is Princess William, we'll see and then we caqn try to form a personal judgement. But not now. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Lady Ann]

I just watched the TLC program, too, and was very surprised how much Diana figured into a show about Kate and William's relationship. It was even suggested that William would propose to Kate with Diana's engagement ring. (unlikely IMO). Also, a nitpicky error, they referred to Sarah McCorquodale as Diana's aunt instead of her sister or even William's aunt. Well, they got me to watch anyway.

They had alot of info wrong like stating that William was 29 as well there a few other I cought on too as well.They went to far with the look alike model in the wedding dress. not to nick pick but Kate is a UK size 6 (US size 2) not a very flattering look alike. lol.

 

[Jaya]

PW and Kate have many things going for them. They are both from the same community and culture; they share common interests;they are devoted to each other;they are discreet beyond their years;they have not made any mistakes so far;they appear sensible; and they are in love.The English will be blessed should they finally become "husband" and "wife"and come into their royal capacities to be of service to all...

 

[texankitcat]

I think the bottom line here is how William feels about Kate not working. Although we don't know his personal feelings on the subject, we can see he enjoys having her nearby and available to spend time with. If she did have a career, not only would it present diffculty with her being able to effectively do her job with the constant media attention, it would prove to be difficult for them to spend time together with his military career.

The argument that "other" royals have managed isn't necessarily a valid point. As I have pointed out, the media attention on the House of Windsor is monumental compared to other Royal Houses. Whom William marries is of major interest. Kate is hounded by the Paparazzi, and it has presented a problem for her and is a concern to William since she isn't under protection of the Royal security. It's only when she is with William that she is afforded protection. I think for that reason, William prefers that she stays close to him.

As for the special last night on their relationship, it didn't present any new information that most of us here didn't already know, however it may have been interesting and informative to those that don't access forums such as this one, or follow the monarchy's activities. I do think the timing is interesting since it's the first program I have seen devoted to their relationship.

 

[cd_1]

Wow, how cynical you all sound. Yes most of the continental CP's did meet their wives later however, Victoria and Daniel put in the hard yards for 10 years. And let's face it, with the media and forums being what they are, William is under tremendous pressure to "get it right".

The intimation that behind closed doors all (royal) imarriages are falling apart is not only cynical but highly unlikely. If you have any "facts" to substantiate such an assertion I would love to hear them. As it is it seems that on these boards a lot of members view the various royal couples as contestants in a reality game and treat their lieves with the same kind of caring attitude most often see in Gordon Ramsey's kitchen!

wow, i didnt mean to sound cynical. didnt read it through to see how it sounded.
i dont have any facts, i didnt claim to. thats why i wrote 'imo' at the end.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I really don't think it would have been any different since she WAS of noble birth and therefore it wasn't perceived that she should have a serious career. Kate is absolutely being held to a different standard.

Well we're talking about a difference of nearly 30 years. Attitudes have changed, and if Kate has a title now, I would treat her the exact same.

My first point? You mean about Charles not giving Diana the time of day if she wasn't Lady Diana? But why would't that be true? He wasn't looking for love, since he was in love with Camilla. He needed to get married and was advised by "Uncle Dicky", his father and even Camilla on the type of woman he should consider. Diana fit that role since she was virginal, didn't have a past and had a impeccable pedigree. She may have encountered him, but virginal, untainted past or not, if she was Diana Jones of the Liverpool instead of Lady Diana Spencer, he would not have considered marrying her.

You don't know that. Which is my point, you can't say something would happen when it's in the past.

Living at home

Kate isn't at home at the moment, she's living with William.

I think what makes a lot of people uneasy is that Kate seems to live the life of a Royal mistress not that of a future wife.

How that is true.

I think the bottom line here is how William feels about Kate not working.

Now that I agree with you. But then if we all applied by that, we would have this forum.

 

[texankitcat]

Well we're talking about a difference of nearly 30 years. Attitudes have changed, and if Kate has a title now, I would treat her the exact same.

Fair enough. However, regardless of what she is doing now, if she marries Prince William (which is likely) she WILL have to pull her weight with Royal duties if she is to be on the civil list. There is too much scrutiny on the Royal family to do anything else. I am sure she is well aware of this and knows what is expected of her. She has been with William too long not to know. Fortunately, she will also be afforded security detail to make it easier for her to perform her duties.

You don't know that. Which is my point, you can't say something would happen when it's in the past.

I am going on what we DO know of why Diana was chosen and what the expectations and criteria were for him to choose a particular type of woman. We DO know that Diana was chosen based on that criteria. Fantasy has nothing to do with facts in this case.

Now that I agree with you. But then if we all applied by that, we would have this forum.

True

 

[AnnEliza]

I was surprised to read in this forum that the Queen has to give permission for marriage (or the Privy Council) for all descendents of George II? That must be a very large number of people! At what point is a person too far a relation of the monarch to be considered part of the Royal Family any longer? Third cousin, fourth? Or is it that all descendents of George II are members?

Also, regarding the discussion of Kate and her middle-class background, wasn't the Duchess of Cornwall also born a commoner? Or am I mistaken? (very possible...) Perhaps I am wrong to say commoner, since Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother was called a "commoner" when she married into the Royal Family, though she was, like Diana, the daughter of an earl, so perhaps commoner only means not royal, as opposed to not of the nobility or aristocracy (or without a title.)

As you can see by my rambling, I'm still pretty confused...

 

[Sternchen]

Indeed, the Queen Mother and Diana were also considered commoners

 

[Lumutqueen]

I believe QE2 has to give permission to everyone who is a descendant. The definition of "commoner" has changed through the ages.

 

[Osipi]

Fair enough. However, regardless of what she is doing now, if she marries Prince William (which is likely) she WILL have to pull her weight with Royal duties if she is to be on the civil list.

She will NOT be on the civil list. I believe the only ones that are on the civil list at this time are HM and the DoE.

From Wiki:

"Only the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh receive funding from the Civil List. The Duke receives £359,000 per year. The state duties and staff of other members of the Royal Family are funded from a Parliamentary Annuity, the amount of which is repaid by the Queen from the monies put into the Privy Purse from income from the Duchy of Lancaster. The money repaid by the Queen can be claimed against her personal tax bill however. Money from the Privy Purse also goes towards royal charities, including the Chapel Royal. Private personal expenditure is met from private sources of income. The Treasury has the power to appoint a Civil List Auditor under the Civil List Audit Act 1816 and under section 9 of that Act the Treasury is required to prepare a full and complete code of instructions for the guidance of the conduct of such an auditor. These instructions were most recently issued on 25 September 2005.[3][4] In late 2010 the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that from 2013 the Civil List would be abolished and replaced by an all-in-one payment called Sovereign Support Grant, funded entirely from the Crown Estate.[5]"

I'm sure though that once William and Kate are married, she will be happily by his side at any function or event he should do. I really don't blame them one bit at all for trying to grab as much privacy as they can now. I don't expect them to announce the engagement either till that last possible moment acceptable for whatever wedding date they should chose.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Fair enough. However, regardless of what she is doing now, if she marries Prince William (which is likely) she WILL have to pull her weight with Royal duties if she is to be on the civil list.

As she won't be on the Civil List (or whatever they call it at that time seeing as they have just announced a new funding formula giving the monarch a percentage of the income from the Crown Estates rather than a Civil List from 2012/2013) until William becomes King she has years to get used to it.

Currently only the Queen and Philip are on the Civil List.

Charles has the income of the Duchy of Cornwall estate to support himself, Camilla, William and Harry although William and Harry are independently wealthy thanks to their inheritance from their mother. Kate will therefore be supported directly by William from his inheritance and allowance from his father along with his air force pay during the present reign. When Charles becomes King she will be supported from the Duchy of Cornwall and only when William is King will she get anything from the government.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I was surprised to read in this forum that the Queen has to give permission for marriage (or the Privy Council) for all descendents of George II? That must be a very large number of people! At what point is a person too far a relation of the monarch to be considered part of the Royal Family any longer? Third cousin, fourth? Or is it that all descendents of George II are members?

That is all descendents except those descended from princesses who married into foreign houses which reduces the number considerably e.g. the other royal families of Europe don't ask as they are descended through princesses who married into foreign royal houses. There is no restriction on how close to the Queen one is in terms of relationship but descent is what matters.

The Queen's children, granchildren, niece, nephew, cousins and their children have all asked and been granted as have the Hannoverians but pretty much everyone else is exempted as they are descended from princesses married into foreign royal houses.

 

[MARG]

wow, i didnt mean to sound cynical. didnt read it through to see how it sounded.
i dont have any facts, i didnt claim to. thats why i wrote 'imo' at the end.

Sorry I was not only referring to you. It just seems the general tenor is not just cynical but really negative regarding Kate in particular as well as sly intimations that their marriage would be as sad and pathetic as presumeably both of Prince Charles', the Queen's, etc, ad nauseum.

 

[texankitcat]

As she won't be on the Civil List (or whatever they call it at that time seeing as they have just announced a new funding formula giving the monarch a percentage of the income from the Crown Estates rather than a Civil List from 2012/2013) until William becomes King she has years to get used to it.

Currently only the Queen and Philip are on the Civil List.

Charles has the income of the Duchy of Cornwall estate to support himself, Camilla, William and Harry although William and Harry are independently wealthy thanks to their inheritance from their mother. Kate will therefore be supported directly by William from his inheritance and allowance from his father along with his air force pay during the present reign. When Charles becomes King she will be supported from the Duchy of Cornwall and only when William is King will she get anything from the government.

Interesting....I didn't know that. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Sorry I was not only referring to you. It just seems the general tenor is not just cynical but really negative regarding Kate in particular as well as sly intimations that their marriage would be as sad and pathetic as presumeably both of Prince Charles', the Queen's, etc, ad nauseum.

I didn't know that the Queen had a sad and pathetic marriage.

Whenever I see pictures of them there is clear signs of love there from both of them.

 

[texankitcat]

I didn't know that the Queen had a sad and pathetic marriage.

Whenever I see pictures of them there is clear signs of love there from both of them.

I could be wrong, but I don't think she meant that the Queen has a miserable marriage. I perceived that she was pointing out the negativity regarding Royal marriages in general. Not that I blame people for having that point of view considering the history of some of the more infamous marriages.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I could be wrong, but I don't think she meant that the Queen has a miserable marriage. I perceived that she was pointing out the negativity regarding Royal marriages in general. Not that I blame people for having that point of view considering the history of some of the more infamous marriages.

Had that been what was meant then why say

their marriage would be as sad and pathetic as presumeably both of Prince Charles', the Queen's, etc, ad nauseum.

That clearly identifies two marruages as sad and pathetic and even emphasises the fact with the word 'both'.

 

[rmay286]

It seems like there's speculation on William and Kate's marriage everywhere these days...in the Daily Mail, on TV, and when I go on MSN there are links to articles about Kate and William. If I hadn't read these articles I would think there was some reason for the sudden "William and Kate wedding fever" but after reading them, the only new development I can find is that the Middletons were at a shooting party with William and Kate.

I know the media is anxious for them to get married, but can't they find another story? I never thought seeing royal headlines everywhere would annoy me! William and Kate are going to get married when/if they want to...not when the media wants them to.

 

[texankitcat]

Had that been what was meant then why say.

It just seems the general tenor is not just cynical but really negative regarding Kate in particular as well as sly intimations that their marriage would be as sad and pathetic as presumeably both of Prince Charles', the Queen's, etc, ad nauseum.

Note the word "presumeably".

 

[Iluvbertie]

It just seems the general tenor is not just cynical but really negative regarding Kate in particular as well as sly intimations that their marriage would be as sad and pathetic as presumeably both of Prince Charles', the Queen's, etc, ad nauseum.



Note the word "presumeably".

I did.

Again when has there been any indication that the Queen's marriage is sad and pathetic - in order to make a presumption there has to be evidence.

That Charles' first marriage was sad and pathetic there is a lot of evidence, from Diana and Charles themselves, but I have never come across any from the Queen or Philip to put it in the same category and thus my question remains, - why say the Queen's marriage is sad and pathetic?