William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2010

[Iluvbertie]

Up until age 25 in order to marry, it does require the consent of the Queen and even then could be bypassed taking it to Parliament.

Just to clarify this point:

Up to 25 a royal can only marry with the permission of the monarch
After 25 if the monarch doesn't give their permission then the person can appeal to parliament, wait a year and if neither house objects marry.

At all times members of the royal family have to have permision to marry from someone - either the Queen up to 25 or the Queen/Parliament after 25. Even Charles when marrying Camilla at the age of 56 had to have the Queen's consent (just as he did aged 33 when marrying Diana).

 

[Osipi]

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

 

[rmay286]

Kate, on the other hand, might be happier marrying a very wealthy man/aristo who can take care of her. A man who will be happy to show off such a pretty, devoted wife and mother to his children. A woman who will not embarrass or otherwise cause trouble for him, and stay loyal. A man who will want his wife to look after the household and not work outside of the house. A man who covets a wife who will take care of him, spoil and reassure him. I see all these qualities in Kate.

But, for a woman who allegedly did not hold ambition for a career, Kate is grasping for a position that requires hard work and stamina, with no option to be a "stay-at-home" wife and mother. I just do not see this being Kate's "bag" at all. I believe in her own mind she wants it, but the girl is too protected, IMO. In many ways, she may be a "lamb to the slaughter" just as Diana was.

I think you`ve put your finger on what maybe doesn`t sit right with me about William and Kate as a future couple. Being Princess of Wales and Queen Consort eventually is much more than a "stay-at-home" wife and mother sort of job, and while it is very hard to make any statements about Kate because we know so little about her, I get the sense that this is the kind of person Kate wants to be.

She could grow into her royal roles, of course, if she married William. I just don`t know enough about Kate to say...but looking over her educational/work history, she does seem like someone who is "sheltered". The Queen had a sheltered upbringing, but once her father died (and even before that, when he was ill) she had to take on a lot of responsibility, but I think this probably shaped her as a person. Taking on extra, even stressful responsibilities is not a bad thing.

 

[Donna Mia]

It's hard to say who would actually be good for the role. It is a very restrictive role. One would have to repress much of their desires to be molded to the position. That's why I think this new crop of mates are rather light-weights- Daniel, Charlene, etc. Someone with a lot of character, education, vision whatever probably wouldn't want to be controlled in such a manner. It is easier to control someone who is sheltered or unworldly etc.

 

[angieuk]

William in my opinion, has never come across as ecstatically happy, he just seems to rubble along with the cards life has dealt him. Once he leaves the Royal Air Force I bet he will look ever more miserable. Kate will only be able to do so much with this man. Is he difficult to please? Sometimes yes. His staff say he demands perfection! Prince Albert of Monaco on the other hand seems a sweet and kind man. Lucky Charlene.

 

[Liriel]

William is doing as HE wishes,an indecisive guy who can't stand being alone.

Kate is ... for me ...... Totally unsuitable to be a member of the Royal Family

 

[Iluvbertie]

Why is she unsuitable?
She is educated. She is discreet. She is lovely to look at. She enjoys the outdoorsy life that the royals enjoy.
She isn't a publicity seeker. She isn't flashy. She isn't a show-poney.
She reminds me a lot of HRH The Countess of Wessex - a perfect type for a royal wife - quiet, unassuming.

 

[NancyJJ]

We've discussed possible titles for William and Harry but what about the possible location when they get married? St. George's Chapel at Windsor Castle?

 

[Iluvbertie]

We've discussed possible titles for William and Harry but what about the possible location when they get married? St. George's Chapel at Windsor Castle?

I can see Harry marrying there regardless of who is the monarch at the time but I am not sure that William would be able to get away with that, particularly if he is the heir (in other words he doesn't marry in the present reign but in his father's - and yes I can see him not marrying for another 10 or so years - actually I can see him not marrying at all fearing the consequences of putting any woman in the position his mother was in)

 

[Osipi]

Personally I think St. George's chapel at Windsor would be the likely venue if William marries while HM is still Queen. It would also fit in with a wedding being more low keyed and cost efficient in these economic times. If Charles were to be reigning monarch when he marries, then I would presume the ceremony would be at Westminster Abbey as he is then the heir.

 

[rmay286]

I was actually thinking the same thing, that Kate has some of the same qualities as Sophie, minus the independent career. The thing is, Sophie clearly doesn`t like huge amounts of media attention. She and Edward both seem to want to raise their family out of the limelight and away from royal duties. That won`t be possible for Kate if she marries William--he will be the most high profile royal eventually. It won`t be possible for them to live a quiet domestic life with their children out of the public eye.

Kate might be an ideal bride for someone further down the line of succession who can live his life out of the spotlight (eg. Peter Philips). I honestly don`t know how she would suit being Princess of Wales. The problem is that the Princess of Wales can`t love the limelight, but can`t afford to be so retiring that she shies away from it altogether, because the role automatically comes with media attention. Kate will never get away from the media if she actually marries William.

 

[ghost_night554]

But who's to say Kate won't be able to juggle being discreet and still being in the spotlight. For now she's been laying low because that's the best thing at this point. She isn't engaged to Wills yet and so there would be no need for her to be in the spotlight that much right now.

 

[muriel]

My comments are prefaced by the admission that we know relatively little about Kate as an individual, and what her likes and dislikes truely are.

That said, i think it is wrong to assume that Kate is "retiring" and "shies away" from the media attention. This could very well be a delibrate tactic. She is not in a position to engage in a two way conversation with the media, so she may have decided to stay away from the cameras totally.

 

[solsol]

William is doing as HE wishes,an indecisive guy who can't stand being alone.

Kate is ... for me ...... Totally unsuitable to be a member of the Royal Family

I agree people here in the uk are so bored by the whole thing it's like they've been married ages ago. i think it's a bad idea to move in together..now he's really got no reason to step up his pace.

 

[muriel]

I agree people here in the uk are so bored by the whole thing it's like they've been married ages ago. i think it's a bad idea to move in together..now he's really got no reason to step up his pace.

People are only bored because the tabloids built the story up. Not many 28 year olds are in a hurry to get married these days, despite what the Daily Mail may want them to do!

 

[Liriel]

Hi Iluvbertie

Why is she unsuitable?

She is educated. She is lovely to look at. She enjoys the outdoorsy life that the royals enjoy.

because: keeping her mouth shut your live how "ghost"
sorry ,Her "adjectives" ,but for me look more mistress
and no wife the Prince
more how: Maria Walewska or Agnes Sorel and not Queen Mary or Maria Theresa...
for exemple.

She is discreet.She isn't a publicity seeker. She isn't flashy. She isn't a show-poney.

no before the 2007

 

[Iluvbertie]

Why is keeping her mouth shut - or being discreet - not a good thing?

She hasn't said anything to anyone about being with William which surely is a good thing.

What adjectives make her look more like a mistress?

The only adjectives I can think of are - discreet, quiet, bright (she has a good degree so has some intelligence) - all of these are good things to me.

She isn't pushy. She isn't 'in your face'. She isn't courting the press or publicity due to being with William. If she was I would say she wasn't suitable but she is keeping a low profile.

I don't know who all these ladies are that you mention but I would hope that she certainly wouldn't be a Maria Teresa (assuming you mean the Austrian Empress who was an autocrat and not the wife of a constitutional monarch).

 

[Wisteria]

Keeping your mouth shut and being discreet are both good things but not the most important features for a future Queen.
I am a bit puzzled by what you think is the definition of a mistress.
If a woman is not engaged to a man,
She is sleeping with him, what do you call her, a girlfriend?
Well I am not that old but that wasn´t the definitiion of girlfriend in my day.
All this wouldn´t matter in the least except for one thing, the man in question is the heir to the heir of the throne, whatever the romantics on this forum think, he is of a different sphere and needs to act as the future Defender of Faith.
It would not matter at all if we were referring to any other young man in the UK, but Prince William is different, like it or not.

 

[Iluvbertie]

A mistress to me is a married woman carrying on with another man or a woman carrying on with a married man.

A single woman sleeping with a single man is a girlfriend and nothing more or less (regardless of the age or station of the two concerned).

As for William being the future Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England considering the previous holders of those titles he is perfectly acceptable as at least he is upfront about it. Henry VIII wasn't an example setter and nor was Charles II or George VI or Edward VII but they were all Defenders of the Faith and, except Henry, Supreme Governors of the Church of England (Henry was Supreme Head not Governor).

The most important credential Kate needs to be the future Duchess of Cornwall, Princess of Wales and Queen Consort is that William loves her and the evidence is that he does that although I do think they have past the first passion phase and have really settled into a comfortable state that usually comes after a number of years together. Until she has the rings on her fingers being discreet is very important. Once she has the first ring officially then she would need to be more out there but until then she is doing things the right way in my opinion. What we don't need is another girlfriend of a prince who is in the papers everyday - and that is what the papers hate about her - she doesn't play ball like Diana did in her courting days and thus William hand hasn't been forced the way Charles' was in 1981 - where he was pressured into proposing or letting her go because she was in the press all the time. Sure times have changed and having a virgin wife is no longer expected in any relationship but William is having the time to get it right and Kate is doing the right thing as well.

 

[Liriel]

Why is keeping her mouth shut - or being discreet - not a good thing?

discreet? after 2007, and no before

The only adjectives I can think of are - discreet, quiet, bright (she has a good degree so has some intelligence) - all of these are good things to me.

I agree. For me too

She isn't pushy. She isn't 'in your face'. She isn't courting the press or publicity due to being with William. If she was I would say she wasn't suitable but she is keeping a low profile.

Again.... after 2007

Kate no is wife nor mistress

 

[Iluvbertie]

I don't understand what is the significance of 2007.

She isn't doing things now that she wasn't doing then except that she did try to have a job outside the family but the press hounded her. She tried to get involved with public things like the boat race and the skating thing but again she got bad press so probably decided that she should not do anything in the public as a result.

I don't think she went looking for press coverage with these things but more that the press was there and was negative so she withdrew. She never really encouraged them but tried to live with them and they made it impossible for her.

At the moment Kate is a girlfriend. She isn't his wife and might never be his wife but the signs are that he will marry her but she also isn't his mistress and I doubt if she ever will be - wife or nothing is what she will be and I think she will be his wife and do a lovely job as she will be his helpmate and supporter - just what a wife of a British prince should be.

 

[Lumutqueen]

William is doing as HE wishes,an indecisive guy who can't stand being alone.

Kate is ... for me ...... Totally unsuitable to be a member of the Royal Family

I don't think William is indecisive, he knows what he wants and he'll get it.

She is educated. She is discreet. She is lovely to look at. She enjoys the outdoorsy life that the royals enjoy.

She isn't a publicity seeker. She isn't flashy. She isn't a show-poney.

She reminds me a lot of HRH The Countess of Wessex - a perfect type for a royal wife - quiet, unassuming.

All very true, she is the perfect royal wife as you say and I think that is why eventually he will end up marrying her. I can see Sophie and Kate getting on well.

I agree people here in the uk are so bored by the whole thing it's like they've been married ages ago. i think it's a bad idea to move in together..now he's really got no reason to step up his pace.

Not all of us are that "bored" with the whole thing. They have apparently moved in together, so why is it such a bad idea? He's got no real reason? What about if he wants to move in with her?

Hi Iluvbertie

because: keeping her mouth shut your live how "ghost"
sorry ,Her "adjectives" ,but for me look more mistress
and no wife the Prince
more how: Maria Walewska or Agnes Sorel and not Queen Mary or Maria Theresa...
for exemple.

I ask like IluvBertie, "Adjectives" I didn't know Kate had any.
Juts because your discreet does not mean you live like a ghost, it means you know your place when dating a prince.
Camilla was a mistress for Charles a long time, and they eventually married.

Keeping your mouth shut and being discreet are both good things but not the most important features for a future Queen.
I am a bit puzzled by what you think is the definition of a mistress.
If a woman is not engaged to a man,
She is sleeping with him, what do you call her, a girlfriend?
Well I am not that old but that wasn´t the definitiion of girlfriend in my day.
All this wouldn´t matter in the least except for one thing, the man in question is the heir to the heir of the throne, whatever the romantics on this forum think, he is of a different sphere and needs to act as the future Defender of Faith.
It would not matter at all if we were referring to any other young man in the UK, but Prince William is different, like it or not.

I understand what you mean that William is different, but what does that have to do with the mistress talk?
A girlfriend IMO is someone who is in a relationship with another person, not engaged nor married.
A mistress is someone who is sleeping with a man, who is married to someone else. Or vice versa.
But yes being discreet is something you have to learn to be a royal wife.

discreet? after 2007, and no before
Again.... after 2007

Kate no is wife nor mistress

Could you explain why things changed after 2007?
And why Kate appears like a mistress and not a wife.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

I think a more fitting description of Kate's present position is that of a "paramour." She can't be a "mistress" as William is not married to someone else. If he's footing all her financial needs, then she would be the "kept woman." Is she that???

 

[Lumutqueen]

I think a more fitting description of Kate's present position is that of a "paramour." She can't be a "mistress" as William is not married to someone else. If he's footing all her financial needs, then she would be the "kept woman." Is she that???

I researched the word Paramour and got "an illicit lover of a married person" is that what you meant?

IMO Kate is just the girlfriend of the prince.

 

[Russophile]

Well let's see how dictionary dot com defines "Mistress"

mis·tress

   /ˈmɪs

trɪs/ Show Spelled[mis-tris] Show IPA
–noun 1. a woman who has authority, control, or power, esp. the female head of a household, institution, or other establishment.

2. a woman employing, or in authority over, servants or attendants.

3. a female owner of an animal, or formerly, a slave.

4. a woman who has the power of controlling or disposing of something at her own pleasure: mistress of a great fortune.

5. ( sometimes initial capital letter

) something regarded as feminine that has control or supremacy: Great Britain, the mistress of the seas.

6. a women who is skilled in something, as an occupation or art.

7. a woman who has a continuing, extramarital sexual relationship with one man, esp. a man who, in return for an exclusive and continuing liaison, provides her with financial support.

8. British . a female schoolteacher; schoolmistress.

9. ( initial capital letter

) a term of address in former use and corresponding to Mrs., Miss, or Ms.

10. Archaic . sweetheart.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

LQueen, I didn't look it up. That's the term my family used for unmarried "intimates."

She can't be a paramour, then, and I've got to stop using it incorrectly!!!

Russo, #10 is how we used it. I didn't know it was archaic!!! LOL and no one knows for sure that she is #7.

Until proven otherwise, I will think of her as innocent -- as it's not my business.

Thx to both for the heads up.

 

[Russophile]

Well it looks to me like it's a "D": all of the above; sort of thing.

 

[Idriel]

She never really encouraged them but tried to live with them and they made it impossible for her.

I disagree about the 'never'.
In the weeks following her most serious split with William, Kate was definitely seeking attention. She was hitting parties after parties at high profile clubs where she was sure to have her picture taken, wearing more suggestive outfits than before, engaging the paparazzi enthusiastically (I don't mean smiling politely but actually engaging). I clearly remember these shots of her and her sisters laughing hysterically with the paps, and Kate even wiping out her mobile phone to take picture of them.
Anytime she pulls a Garbo I am reminded of her conduct post split and I quietly chuckle.
I agree with those saying her discretion is a strategy. If and when she becomes William's wife, she won't have any problem whatsoever with the attention.

Here's an article I completely agree with:

Why Kate Middleton is Prince William’s Only Option

To be a senior royal is not a VIP pass to an endless succession of glittering parties (although there are, of course, glittering parties aplenty). To the contrary: it means daily duty, a regimented schedule, no room for spontaneity, hundreds of charity appearances a year, mind-numbing small talk, a perma-paste smile, crushing responsibilities, 24/7 surveillance, zero privacy—and dwindling respect and appreciation from a public who doesn’t understand your immense contributions and increasingly views you as a tax burden.

“Well-bred, moneyed English beauties have learned from Princess Diana’s legacy, reportedly feeling like Jane Wellesley before them: give up an already-abundant life for stifling duty, no privacy and the chance to briefly wear a heavy crown in Westminster Abbey? No, thanks.”

Imo, William will 'settle' with Kate, not marry her because she is the love of his life. Please don't bombard me with the usual 'What proof do you have'?' and 'You don't know them' litany, this is just my personal opinion.

 

[Duchess]

As for William being the future Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England considering the previous holders of those titles he is perfectly acceptable as at least he is upfront about it.

being up front about it only makes him a hyprocite. if i'm not mistaken, the CoE doesn't condone living together outside marriage or sex outside marriage. just because others before him sowed their wild oats doesn't mean it was right then either. i may be wrong, if the CoE doesn't say anything, officially, about these things then more power to them.

 

[Donna Mia]

I think much of these royal relationships is hypocracy. Just trying to look good for the court of public opinion.