William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2009

[Incas]

I don't get the "boozy nights" in association with Kate Middleton. I have never seen a photo of her looking remotely tipsy coming out of clubs. Wearing short dresses is not a character flaw since 1960's. The one time the girl tried her hand at charity, she is bashed for it.

The press is trying to get both ways with her: being out and about---"normal"---so new photos can feed daily allegations; and somehow appearing "royal" to satify the anticipated royal wedding/marriage.

It is entirely possible that Kate has grown out of the club scene. She hasn't been photographed near her Chelsea pad for many month as well. I have known a lot of people who go to the big city to experience the hussle and bustle. It was fun for awhile, but like all things, boredom soon follows any routine.

 

[Warren]

Kate is a pathetic woman who is afraid to be on her own, and Prince William is way too needy. I mean, what kind of man wants a woman who thinks he's a god...

How do you know Kate Middleton is "pathetic", "afraid to be on her own", and thinks Prince William is a god?
How do you know Prince William "is way too needy" and "wants a woman who thinks he's a god"?

Are you privy to their private thoughts or are you instead projecting your own jaundiced emotional outlook onto their relationship?
If you are going to make such extreme statements about people you obviously don't know then you are going to have to justfy them.

 

[Sonjapearl]

How do you know Kate Middleton is "pathetic", "afraid to be on her own", and thinks Prince William is a god?
How do you know Prince William "is way too needy" and "wants a woman who thinks he's a god"?

Are you privy to their private thoughts or are you instead projecting your own jaundiced emotional outlook onto their relationship?
If you are going to make such extreme statements about people you obviously don't know then you are going to have to justfy them.

Notice I said IF. I said if she is a man pleaser.

And my own outlook into their relationship is not jaundiced. As I said before, it is based on what I have seen in man-pleasing relationships. And I have seen a lot of them.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I don't get the "boozy nights" in association with Kate Middleton. I have never seen a photo of her looking remotely tipsy coming out of clubs. Wearing short dresses is not a character flaw since 1960's. The one time the girl tried her hand at charity, she is bashed for it.

ok call it "late nights out" it's basically coming out of a club at 3am in a short dress. it's only about the message such pictures are sending out, not whether it was "boozy" or not. yes millions of twens do the same every day but it does provoke controversy when it gets down to prince william's girlfried who already has the media image of living the carefree life, fun fun fun, shopping, holiday, party.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/15/article-0-024937E700000578-603_468x413.jpg

regarding the charity, especially the sisterhood project had written "amateurish" all over. charity is a good thing but should at least have a little bit of credibility. kate on a boat as cox, smiling, in full makeup and hair done (including hello! cover story) together with the other ugly duckling girls sweating and doing all the hard rowing work, well it was bound to go wrong.
http://www.royalanecdotes.com/wp-content/KateRowing468x587.jpg

same goes for the roller disco ... charity is a good thing but no need to procude such photos.
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/99/84/kate-middleton-dayglo-disco2.0.0.0x0.500x780.jpeg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/19/article-0-02B42A6500000578-657_468x286.jpg

again, pictures do send out a message and create an image in people's minds that is hard to erase, even though it is about a person who has hardly ever spoken in public, and kate made some poor choices in that respect in the past.

 

[zembla]

Andrew Morton discusses an upcoming wedding...

An Old-Fashioned Wedding? - The Daily Beast

 

[muriel]

Notice I said IF. I said if she is a man pleaser.

And my own outlook into their relationship is not jaundiced. As I said before, it is based on what I have seen in man-pleasing relationships. And I have seen a lot of them.

Perhaps you would like to correct your statement to read as And my "presumed" own outlook into their relationship is not jaundiced - as I presume you actually know very little about their actual relationship, but merely have a view on what it may be, based on the accounts of the tabloids

 

[muriel]

ok call it "late nights out" it's basically coming out of a club at 3am in a short dress. it's only about the message such pictures are sending out, not whether it was "boozy" or not. yes millions of twens do the same every day but it does provoke controversy when it gets down to prince william's girlfried who already has the media image of living the carefree life, fun fun fun, shopping, holiday, party.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/15/article-0-024937E700000578-603_468x413.jpg

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you here. In my book, there is nothing wrong with nights out (within reason), or being dressed the way Kate is. When she lived in London, for a period she was seen out regularly, but has hardly been seen out since. But my sense is that there is a self perpetuating circularity to the contention here. The same old pictures are circulated time and again to argue that she is "living the carefree life, fun fun fun, shopping, holiday, party", and the very same publications then take the holier than thou view that she spends too much time in clubs!

Often Kate's dresses are short, as is the fashion these days. However, I do not think Kate has ever been pictured in any dress or skirt that could be pushing the boundaries of decency nor has she ever appeared drunk in public, as is often implied.

same goes for the roller disco ... charity is a good thing but no need to procude such photos.
http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/99/84/kate-middleton-dayglo-disco2.0.0.0x0.500x780.jpeg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/19/article-0-02B42A6500000578-657_468x286.jpg

again, pictures do send out a message and create an image in people's minds that is hard to erase, even though it is about a person who has hardly ever spoken in public, and kate made some poor choices in that respect in the past.

There is nothing wroing with organising a charity event, and I do not think Kate intended to "no need to procude such photos". It just happened to be an unfortunate picture taken when she had taken a tumble whilst skating at a...... roller skating event (what a surprise). The reality is that it is indicative of the low standards of the tabloids that chose to run the pictures, and the people that read those newspapers.

 

[muriel]

Andrew Morton discusses an upcoming wedding...

An Old-Fashioned Wedding? - The Daily Beast

I think this is just old stuff being rehashed by Andrew Morton. He clearly realises he has run out of Diana stories, and seems to prefer to position himself against William rather than for him!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you here. In my book, there is nothing wrong with nights out (within reason), or being dressed the way Kate is. When she lived in London, for a period she was seen out regularly, but has hardly been seen out since. But my sense is that there is a self perpetuating circularity to the contention here. The same old pictures are circulated time and again to argue that she is "living the carefree life, fun fun fun, shopping, holiday, party", and the very same publications then take the holier than thou view that she spends too much time in clubs!

because i was responding to a response to my previous post i think it has gotten a bit out of context. i was actually referring to kate's past, to the time from when these pictures origin. we have not seen such pictures for a long time, "enforced" or not i don't know, but i think it is a good thing for kate because staying out of the limelight does help getting rid of the fun fun fun image. she should have realized much earlier that pictures can influence a public opinion, not in a only in a positive way.

There is nothing wroing with organising a charity event, and I do not think Kate intended to "no need to procude such photos". It just happened to be an unfortunate picture taken when she had taken a tumble whilst skating at a...... roller skating event (what a surprise). The reality is that it is indicative of the low standards of the tabloids that chose to run the pictures, and the people that read those newspapers.

yes it is no surprise that people fall flat on the face when they do rollerskating the only thing that surprises me is to consider hotpants and a tiny top as a suitable outfit for the occasion, well aware of the hordes of photographers out there only waiting for the one picture to happen. i don't deny that the standards have become very low but to provide such a golden ticket opportunity for the paps is something between careless and attention seeking. it was a certainty to happen, like 1 + 1 = 2.

 

[Sonjapearl]

Perhaps you would like to correct your statement to read as And my "presumed" own outlook into their relationship is not jaundiced - as I presume you actually know very little about their actual relationship, but merely have a view on what it may be, based on the accounts of the tabloids

Again, earlier I said IF Kate is a man-pleaser.

This argument we're having is over whether women should live for their men or not. It started over the article that accused Kate of being one of them. No, I don't know if Kate is a man-pleaser or not. I hope she isn't. If she is, and the keyword is IF, then I stand by what I said about her possibly being pathetic and all.

 

[kimebear]

yes it is no surprise that people fall flat on the face when they do rollerskating the only thing that surprises me is to consider hotpants and a tiny top as a suitable outfit for the occasion, well aware of the hordes of photographers out there only waiting for the one picture to happen. i don't deny that the standards have become very low but to provide such a golden ticket opportunity for the paps is something between careless and attention seeking. it was a certainty to happen, like 1 + 1 = 2.

Why wouldn't her clothes be suitable for the occasion? It was an 80's roller disco. She was in costume. I have seen many people dress as she did when skating during that time period. Many young women (and some men, scarily enough) during those years wore shorts like that, myself included.

 

[Lumutqueen]

This is a very interesting discussion.
I stand by what i say. However I believe that a woman should have the right to choose what she does in her marraige. If she wishes to devote her life to her husband and she is happy with this situation, that is fair enough. Myself i would never be able to do that. My life is my own and i couldn't "exsist to please a man". Even if I were married to a prince like william.
x

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Many young women (and some men, scarily enough) during those years wore shorts like that, myself included.

yes but you are not dating the future heir to the british throne therefore no photographers are waiting outside to take some unflattering pictures that would appear on countless front pages of the tabloids the next day.

it occurs to me that kate did not mind being photographed in hotpants / legs apart position on the floor because it was not a question of if but when it would happen on the day unless she is a professional rollerskater in her secret life.

 

[Ella Kay]

it occurs to me that kate did not mind being photographed in hotpants / legs apart position on the floor because it was not a question of if but when it would happen on the day unless she is a professional rollerskater in her secret life.

Good lord, talk about speculation and conjecture ... there's no way any of us could possibly know what she was thinking or how she felt about those pictures. I think it's just silly that people pay so much attention to an accidental fall at a charity event for which she was dressed in costume, as if it's some sort of proof that she's somehow unsuitable to be queen someday.

 

[NotAPretender]

I think this is just old stuff being rehashed by Andrew Morton. He clearly realises he has run out of Diana stories, and seems to prefer to position himself against William rather than for him!

Muriel, I really didn't see this as an anti-William piece. I read it more along the lines of "The Windsor family has been somewhat adept at remaining relevant. Ms. Middleton, in choosing to subsume her education and prospects to be part of the Windsors, appears to be ending her own relevance in any other possible arena. Should Ms. Middleton not be the bride of William Wales, whatever she accomplishes in life will be measured against what she is perceived as having "lost" in not having assimilated into the Windsor Firm. And much like Monica Lewinsky, she will never be able to overcome the tie between herself and the means by which she rose to name recognition."

I didn't read any criticism in there about what she is choosing or not choosing. Just that whatever her choice is, her entire life is being defined by this window of time.

YMMV.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I don't see Kate Middleton and Monica Lewinski in the same way at all. Lewinski was carrying on with a married man who had the highest office in the land.

Kate will be okay, whether or not she marries William.

Muriel, I really didn't see this as an anti-William piece. I read it more along the lines of "The Windsor family has been somewhat adept at remaining relevant. Ms. Middleton, in choosing to subsume her education and prospects to be part of the Windsors, appears to be ending her own relevance in any other possible arena. Should Ms. Middleton not be the bride of William Wales, whatever she accomplishes in life will be measured against what she is perceived as having "lost" in not having assimilated into the Windsor Firm. And much like Monica Lewinsky, she will never be able to overcome the tie between herself and the means by which she rose to name recognition."

I didn't read any criticism in there about what she is choosing or not choosing. Just that whatever her choice is, her entire life is being defined by this window of time.

YMMV.

 

[kimebear]

yes but you are not dating the future heir to the british throne therefore no photographers are waiting outside to take some unflattering pictures that would appear on countless front pages of the tabloids the next day.

it occurs to me that kate did not mind being photographed in hotpants / legs apart position on the floor because it was not a question of if but when it would happen on the day unless she is a professional rollerskater in her secret life.

It seems that you are really condemning her because she fell. Being photographed on the floor in a "legs apart position" would be an unflattering photo regardless of what she was wearing.

 

[iowabelle]

The other day, maybe Monday March 15, ABC News ran a piece predicting the imminent announcement of the engagement, based on PoV information and "an insider." I am pretty skeptical about this, given the timing.

My line of reasoning. If there's going to be a royal wedding, they will want to have it when the weather is good and there's going to be the maximum possible number of people on the streets. And most recent royal weddings have been during the spring or summer. It took about 5 1/2 months to get the show on for Charles and Diana, from the time of the announcement to the big day. If that is followed as a model for William (and I'm guessing it will be), if it were announced today we'd be looking at September. I don't think it leaves enough time for it to happen this year.

And next year they're going to want to avoid conflicts with CP Victoria, so that you don't have 2 major royal weddings in a week (remember Denmark and Spain?). So there's going to have to be discussions between Sweden and the UK, IF William asks Kate.

 

[NotAPretender]

I don't see Kate Middleton and Monica Lewinski in the same way at all. Lewinski was carrying on with a married man who had the highest office in the land.

Nor am/do I. The only similarity, in my opinion and I believe in Morton's opinion (remember that he also wrote a biography of Lewinski,) is that their name recognition and therefore any mention of their name in the future will always be linked to their relationship with one person/one man. Much like whenever someone mentions, for instance, Pat Nixon, the only person one connects her with is Richard Nixon, her husband.

Or, as I summarized earlier, defined by this window in time.

 

[iowabelle]

Andrew Morton discusses an upcoming wedding...

An Old-Fashioned Wedding? - The Daily Beast

What an odd article. IF William and Kate break up again, I don't think she's going to be remembered as his old girlfriend forever. Remember Eva Sannum? I bet most youngsters at RF don't know that name!

And what about Sarah Spencer (aside from being Diana's sister), Janet Watkins, Lucia Santa Cruz, David Sheffield, Amanda Knatchbull and Jane Wellesley?? Aside from fossils like me , they're not remembered by the masses. And once YOU break up with a prince, I think you can go on to have a decent life, just ask Jane! (IMO she would have been a great PoW.)

 

[Sister Morphine]

I cannot for the life of me understand how someone can lambast Kate for having fallen on the floor. Have you ever fallen before? Tripping or falling down is not something that happens to everyone else but her, just because she's dating the future King of England.


It's stuff like this that makes me geuninely feel sorry for her, because it seems that no matter what she can't win. This was hardly comperable to Britney Spears or Paris Hilton flashing their business getting out of a car. Those were purposeful attempts to get paparazzi attention. This was a complete accident. Lay off her already.

 

[NotAPretender]

And what about Sarah Spencer (aside from being Diana's sister), Janet Watkins, Lucia Santa Cruz, David Sheffield, Amanda Knatchbull and Jane Wellesley?? Aside from fossils like me , they're not remembered by the masses. And once YOU break up with a prince, I think you can go on to have a decent life, just ask Jane! (IMO she would have been a great PoW.)

Wow! The PoW was very open-minded!

(sorry IowaBelle - had to laugh. Of course you and I and the other oldsters know you meant Davina Sheffield.)

I agree with you completely about Jane Wellesley.

 

[Ella Kay]

I cannot for the life of me understand how someone can lambast Kate for having fallen on the floor. Have you ever fallen before? Tripping or falling down is not something that happens to everyone else but her, just because she's dating the future King of England.


It's stuff like this that makes me geuninely feel sorry for her, because it seems that no matter what she can't win. This was hardly comperable to Britney Spears or Paris Hilton flashing their business getting out of a car. Those were purposeful attempts to get paparazzi attention. This was a complete accident. Lay off her already.

Agreed, Sister Morphine -- it should be a non-issue, but some seemed to have picked up on tabloid criticisms. I think that's a shame.

 

[iowabelle]

Ouch, NotAPretender. I meant Davina, although you've heard the rumors...

About unbecoming photos of Kate... I think the fault/blame should go more to the photographers. Haven't they learned anything from their constant need for exploitative photos? The girl deserves to have a life and some fun.

 

[Incas]

it occurs to me that kate did not mind being photographed in hotpants / legs apart position on the floor because it was not a question of if but when it would happen on the day unless she is a professional rollerskater in her secret life.

OMG....I hesitate to ask what you think of the young lady having the nerve to wear bikinis, and Heavens, been photographed several times in them over the years?

 

[Lady Ann]

Not to be rude but here we have a TV show called what not to wear!!! Maybe some people would like Miss Middleton to get fashion tips from the York sisters then we can say how over the top she is in some odd sense. I think IMO that Miss Middleton's dress has grown into a younger style in the last couple of years and has a good out look on how she wants to be see or not seen she does rather well for all the bad press she puts up with ......I have seen more fashion do's then don'ts...of course no one has to agree with me ...

 

[Mermaid1962]

I've always liked Kate's clothes. I don't ever remember seeing her in an outfit that was truly awful.

Not to be rude but here we have a TV show called what not to wear!!! Maybe some people would like Miss Middleton to get fashion tips from the York sisters then we can say how over the top she is in some odd sense. I think IMO that Miss Middleton's dress has grown into a younger style in the last couple of years and has a good out look on how she wants to be see or not seen she does rather well for all the bad press she puts up with ......I have seen more fashion do's then don'ts...of course no one has to agree with me ...

 

[georgiea]

I've always liked Kate's clothes. I don't ever remember seeing her in an outfit that was truly awful.

She really does have a fashion sense of an artistic personality-black and sophisticated.

 

[Lady Ann]

I was defending her!!! lol I was beeing sarcastic ............

 

[Skydragon]

CONGRATULATIONS to the French magazine Point de Vue, which has produced a world exclusive revealing that Prince William and Kate Middleton are to get engaged this month and will be married in the summer

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