William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2009

[kimebear]

Or, do you view Kate as a starter wife?

The BRF can ill afford another messy divorce which is why I think they are taking all the time that they need to make sure they are right for each other. Their long courtship is a very good idea, IMO, and if they marry, it will help keep the marriage strong.

 

[Lumutqueen]

The BRF can ill afford another messy divorce which is why I think they are taking all the time that they need to make sure they are right for each other. Their long courtship is a very good idea, IMO, and if they marry, it will help keep the marriage strong.

Indeed that is my opinion aswell. They can not afford another uspet like Diana and Sarah. Their long courtship is a sign that their relationship can last a length of time, they will not break due to boredom. Kat has experienced Balmoral, Klosters and Clarence House she has expressed her interest in skiing and country sports. Except horseriding. Which is a good thing she is not going to dislike being at Balmoral for summer and Sandringham for winter.
x

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The BRF can ill afford another messy divorce which is why I think they are taking all the time that they need to make sure they are right for each other. Their long courtship is a very good idea, IMO, and if they marry, it will help keep the marriage strong.

don't think a long courtship has an advantage compared to a short courtship, the more common procedure in royalty. i see it more as a disadvantage because the partner cannot start the "new life" and cannot continue with the "old life" at the same time, and is left without protection from media etc what we can see in kate's case.

in "real life" long-term courtships often fail after a short time of marriage and so do short-term courtships but for different reasons. you never know, at the end of the day it's down to the personality / commitment of the people involved. again, i don't think william is in this relationship with a long term commitment, like "i will marry you in 5 years". it still happens to continue, and with time comes a feeling of belonging, but that doesn't mean it will end in marriage. william has any freedom to do a prince albert for the next 10, 15, even 20 years - if kate was the one he would have made a move some time ago to end her waity katie misery but he chose not to.

 

[kimebear]

Except for the fact that William has long said that he will not marry until he is older. It should not come as a suprise that he is still unmarried. While I agree that a long courtship does not always guarantee a successful marriage, it certainly helps. If Charles and Diana had dated for five years, it is unlikely that they would have married. Their differences appeared quite early.

 

[Vanesa]

I've never encouraged a so long courtship. I knew people who had short ones and their loved lasted for ever, and other whose courtship was quite long and divorced five years after their wedding. I can remember my cousin's wedding. She and her boyfriend had been dating exactly ten years. They divorced exactly six years after the wedding. And why? He was a womanizer. The fact he had been dating her for so long time wouldn't keep him from being a womanizer.

However, my granny had a very short courtship: three months. Her parents were very angry since she was young and was studying t be a teacher. She said that it wourldn't matter. She will marry and be a teacher at the same time. She married, and she became a teacher AFTER the wedding. She has 17; she wouldn't even know how to cook (but my father sure did know how to do it! ). Well...their love lasted until she died, some 50 years after their "yes", before a priest. And it was not a formal marriage, no. They love each other deeply. They were an example for their friends and family relationships.

I think that the trouble today is selfishness. Few people wants to share their life. They are used to live alone, doing what they wanted to, with anyone to cut their freedom.

I think that a person who will be the Heir of one of the more important monarchies of the world must think more seriously at the future. He is not anyone...He is Prince William of the United Kingdom.

Vanesa.

 

[Ella Kay]

I think it's a good sign in many ways that William and Kate are maintaining a relationship at their own pace. Apparently part of the problem with Charles and Diana's early days was that Charles felt he was being pressured by his family to marry (and to marry a specific kind of girl). William and Kate's relationship seems to me a sign that the family is more content now to let their heirs take their romances at their own pace and in their own time. I don't see a long relationship as a bad thing -- I see it as two people waiting to marry until they are really ready to make such a serious, lasting commitment.

 

[HRHofNothing]

The BRF can ill afford another messy divorce which is why I think they are taking all the time that they need to make sure they are right for each other. Their long courtship is a very good idea, IMO, and if they marry, it will help keep the marriage strong.

I was not able to say it as well as you. Its not that I think that William is not a suitable candidate for marriage (or Kate for that matter), its just that their actions (his in particular) prove that they have yet to completely mature. And for the marriage to survive the long-haul, they need to be completely mature and level headed. William's wife will have to live in the shadow of her late mother-in-law and that is not an easy task.

 

[Skydragon]

in "real life" long-term courtships often fail after a short time of marriage and so do short-term courtships but for different reasons. you never know, at the end of the day it's down to the personality / commitment of the people involved.

It is, as you say dependent on the individual couples. I have seen many marriages after a short courtship, end in divorce within a very short time and some after a long courtship & long marriage still end in divorce. There are still many successful marriages after a long courtship, but it is all down to the individual.

If Kate & William decide to marry, it will I hope be for life, if they divorce, they are just included in the 50% that fail.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

If Kate & William decide to marry, it will I hope be for life, if they divorce, they are just included in the 50% that fail.

that sounds very joe average doesn't it and leaves royals, especially william, under exteme pressure because they are supposed to be above such banal commoner problems.

but as kimebear said another messy divorce in the house of windsor and the institution will become an uncertainty, what leaves william in constant fear of having to live through his parents' nightmare himself. no matter how long a courtship goes, you can never be sure, not even under "normal" circumstances and especially not under "brf" circumstances, with an almost unbearable media presence caused by the unfortunate past associated to the (late) princes(s) of wales.

 

[Skydragon]

I think the way William and Kate are handling the media now, will ensure they will be less intrusive. They became used to it with Diana and many will have no option but to rethink their attitude.

Yes there is a great deal of pressure on William not to divorce, but mainly because he saw the misery of his parents marriage.

I don't see the monarchy falling if there is another divorce, what people would be pushed to forgive, is if it is played out in the media again.

 

[Incas]

I don't see the monarchy falling if there is another divorce, what people would be pushed to forgive, is if it is played out in the media again.

But isn't that another way say that the media and/or public is demanding William and his future wife (Kate or anyone else) to provide the "happily ever after" ending that Charles and Diana's wasn't. So is it really all for William's personal happiness that both pro- and anti-Kate posts were really about? Or a quest for fairytale according to children's books?

 

[Skydragon]

If they are happy with each other or others, it is all the same to me. Life tends to teach you that there is no such thing as a fairytale. Even in the happiest of marriages (after the ceremony or after 80+ years) there will have been troubles of some sort.

With regards to Kate and William and the fall of the monarchy, I was thinking that if they could handle it more along the lines of Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg, formally married to Prince Joachim, if a separation/divorce was decided upon. That was handled so discreetly, neither telling their troubles to the media. If that were to happen with Kate and William, the public would I believe, support them both, not shout and scream from opposite camps.

Not even engaged and we are talking of divorce!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

But isn't that another way say that the media and/or public is demanding William and his future wife (Kate or anyone else) to provide the "happily ever after" ending that Charles and Diana's wasn't.

it depends. people split, it happens, but if it happens again, this time it has to happen with dignity and not with both partners instrumentalizing the media and telling their side of the stories like soap stars.

skydragon With regards to Kate and William and the fall of the monarchy, I was thinking that if they could handle it more along the lines of Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg, formally married to Prince Joachim, if a separation/divorce was decided upon. That was handled so discreetly, neither telling their troubles to the media. If that were to happen with Kate and William, the public would I believe, support them both, not shout and scream from opposite camps.

well, the danish media is not the british media and we are not talking about the rather unimportant second son the the danish queen but about the future heir to the british crown ... and it would not be the first time but history repeating itself. but i agree, see above, it definitely helps not to behave like soap stars.

 

[Incas]

Yes, we are a morbid lot.

While I see your point on the specifics, ie Alexandra/Joachim, my questions were directed on the larger scheme over William's personal life, and the constant debate on Kate's suitability to be his wife and by extension, as future queen. I was wondering if the debates and speculations are masks for a deeper yearning by some hoping William's marriage will fulfill the ever-after fairytale that his parents' promised to be at the beginning.

 

[Skydragon]

You are probably right. It seems quite clear that many only see William as an extension of his mother and not as an individual! I just hope, as I did for my own youngsters, that they find happiness in their lives, whether with each other, other partners or on their own.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Yes, we are a morbid lot.

While I see your point on the specifics, ie Alexandra/Joachim, my questions were directed on the larger scheme over William's personal life, and the content debate on Kate's suitability to be his wife and by extension, as future queen. I was wondering if the debates and speculations are masks for a deeper yearning by some hoping William's marriage will fulfill the ever-after fairytale that his parents' promised to be at the beginning.

if people learned one thing from the charles and diana desaster it would certainly be that there are hardly fairy tales out there, especially in royalty, and that pictures do not automatically tell the truth. i personally don't think that anybody expects william to live the fairy tale his parents' messed up but first and foremost to find a partner that is suitable for him and, inevitably, for the role she has to fill. if this is kate, so be it. i think it is already quite clear at this stage for the public, the media, even for royalists, that william is anything but the darling reincarnation of his mother.

skydragon I just hope, as I did for my own youngsters, that they find happiness in their lives, whether with each other, other partners or on their own.

not an option for william unless he will become another prince albert, refusing to settle down

 

[Skydragon]

not an option for william unless he will become another prince albert, refusing to settle down

Possibly not, but in 40 years time, it might not be an issue!

 

[Al_bina]

An Old-Fashioned Wedding? - The Daily Beast

Whatever becomes of Kate Middleton, she will always be marked by the man she knew rather than what she knows. If Michelle Obama seems the acme of social modernity and progress, the romance of Kate and William harks back to another arcane era.

I am not sure why it is necessary to drag Mrs. Obama into every discussion about women and make unfavourable comparisons. Undoubtedly Mrs. Obama is an accomplished lady, but the paragon she is not.

 

[Ella Kay]

I'm trying to figure out what Andrew Morton's point was in that blog entry. It just seemed like a rehashing of lots of things people have been discussing here and on other sites for weeks and months now. Nothing new under the sun here, it seems.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I'm sorry but "she exsists to please him"?
my my my and i thought we were in the 21st Century
x

 

[Iluvbertie]

I'm sorry but "she exsists to please him"?
my my my and i thought we were in the 21st Century
x

Exactly - a century in which a woman is free to choose how she wants to live her life. That includes being free to choose to live her life to please her man.

If that is what she wants to do she has every right to do so.

As a woman I wouldn't want to do that but I respect the right of any woman who does wish to live her life for her man.

That is what the woman's movement was all about - the right of woman to be able to live their lives the way they want to and not according to some preconceived idea of how a woman should live her life.

Unfortunately some people assume that the woman's movement meant that woman had to give up living their lives for their men as an option but actually it was that woman should be able to choose how to live their lives. They could work, stay at home or do a bit of both.

 

[Luv2Cruise]

Excellent post and I totally agree, Iluvbertie.

It's mostly those who are in their early 20s who weren't even around for the women's movement, who condemn others for not pursuing a career outside of the home. That is the same as condemning women for working outside of the home as was done in the middle part of the 20th century. My response then as now is get a life and stay out of mine.

Live and let live. A woman should be free to make her own choices about how she chooses to live her life -- be it married, single, employed outside of the home or not, to have children or not. These young girls who condemn people for not pursuing an education and/or professional career outside of the home need to just be quiet and live a few more years before they dare to dictate to a stranger or anyone else about life choices, which is jokeable on its face.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I agree as well, Iluvbertie and Luv2Cruise. I'm a 40-something woman who has six years of post-secondary education, yet what I do is help my husband in some of his work (for which I'm not paid), and do the housework and cooking. I also have a bit of self-employment at home. We don't have a huge income, but we do have a contented life. I imagine that there are probably some highly-paid career women who would switch roles with me any day.

 

[Sonjapearl]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with some of you. I think it is foolish for a woman to live solely for her man. The reason why I say this is because I have known women who have done this, and what sad stories they are. They're only source of identity is the man in their lives. All his interests are theirs, all his opinions are theirs, and so on. What happens when their man leaves them or dies? What then? What will they do with themselves? How will they think for themselves? A man is not going to be around forever, so it is best for a woman to have a life separate from a man.

As for the men in these types of relationships, I've noticed they are controlling, domineering, overly needy and often rude towards their women because they know they can get away with it. That's because they know their women can't live without a man in their lives. Men like that will always use that knowledge against their women.

Getting back to Prince William and Kate Middleton, if she is a "man pleaser", then I see that a character flaw for both of them. Kate is a pathetic woman who is afraid to be on her own, and Prince William is way too needy. I mean, what kind of man wants a woman who thinks he's a god, just because he so happens to be a man? Sounds like a severely insecure man who seriously lacks of confidence.

I know I'm going to be flamed for what I just said, but I had to say it. I based my opinion on what I have seen in life. For me, the point of the woman's movement was for women to have their own lives away from men, and for men not to be domineering towards women. Any woman, to me, who allows a man to dominate them, is setting the woman's movement back 50 years.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The point of the women's movement was to give women a choice about how they wanted to live their lives.

If, as you say, it was to have their own lives away from men then that is just as bad as saying that they had to have their lives dependent on men. It isn't giving women the choice that they fought to have.

If a woman chooses to have their life lived dependent on a man that is her right and her choice. The woman's movement gave women that right, the same right that men had had for generations.

However, some women wish to condemn other women, and claim they are setting the women's movement back a number of years, simply because that woman decides to live their life for a man. That is NOT the case. The woman's movement was to give woman the choice to live their lives the way they wanted - either dependent on a man, independent of men or some compromise between the two.

No woman should be made to feel that they have to have a career just because women fought to be recognised as equals. A woman who chooses to be a homemaker should be respected for that choice and not condemned. That is what the woman's movement was about - choice - not to change the dominance from men to career.

I know many woman, in their 40s and over who chose to live their lives for their men, and who are now widowed or divorced and who have not regreted their decision but are making a life for themselves different to what they originally had. I know many men whose wives live just for them and none are controlling or domineering but rather supportive and appreciative of the homes their wives have made for them. From my experience woman are happiest when they choose their life's path and young woman today are thankful that the woman's movement gave them that choice. Many of my friends worked for a couple of years after finishing uni and then married, had their families, who are now at uni or in the workforce themselves but the women simply don't want to return to work as they love being homemakers and taking care of just their man.

The fact that William is insecure is not a surprise. His parents were both very needy people. He saw the complete disaster his parents marriage turned into and is scared the same thing will happen to him. He knows that the press will want to make a 'new Diana' of his wife and he knows that he needs a woman who will understand all of that and will help him - that will require a special woman and one who will be able to devote herself to his needs (just as his father needed a wife who would do that but instead married the wrong woman as a first wife - one who was equally needy). William may have found that woman in Kate and regardless of what else she may or may not do in her life - if William is to be her husband then her first and primary duty is supporting William in everything he does. Anything she may achieve on her own has to complement William and not compete with William. Kate seems eminently suitable for that.

 

[Ella Kay]

In the end, if Kate is in some ways adapting her life to accommodate William, I hope that he is also making as many changes as he possibly can to his own life in order to accommodate her. While a royal life is not so easy to self-organize as the regular life of a commoner, I can only hope that he is thoughtful and respectful to a woman who may be arranging some of her life to make his life easier and happier, and that he is also endeavoring to make her life easier and happier as well.

 

[Skydragon]

Getting back to Prince William and Kate Middleton, if she is a "man pleaser", then I see that a character flaw for both of them. Kate is a pathetic woman who is afraid to be on her own, and Prince William is way too needy.

IF being the operative word here. I do not consider myself a man pleaser, in any way shape or form, but I have never been in paid employment, chose not to make use of my university education, dated for as long as I wanted and altered, (if necessary) my arrangements to fit in with my future husband. What is wrong with that? Marriage is about compromise, fitting in with each other, making the effort to make each other happy, whether that involves women staying home to look after their man/home/children or joining the daily grind! As the wife of an officer (twice), I had no problems with being 'on my own' while they were away, it is the women who need to be shown 'consideration', every moment of every day I feel sorry for, or those that feel the need to be seen as independant, career women!

For me, the point of the woman's movement was for women to have their own lives away from men, and for men not to be domineering towards women. Any woman, to me, who allows a man to dominate them, is setting the woman's movement back 50 years.

You don't know that William is dominating Kate though! I'm afraid it is that very attitude that sets the womens movement back. The point of the WM was all about having the right to decide how to live your life, without the condemnation of those that choose to live their lives in a different way!

 

[Luv2Cruise]

Iluvbertie and Skydragon, and when the end of your lives are near, and we're rounding the bases at a steady clip I think, I really don't think you'll regret on your deathbeds not having written one more legal brief for your clients, or received one more bonus, or received one more commendation. On the other hand, some might regret not having had enough time for more long walks after dinner with husband, daughter, son, sister, mother, father, brother, grandkid, take your pick.

If Kate Middleton wants to stay home or put first the needs of her future husband, the future king, I applaud her. And her choice was not mine. Yet I don't fault her, I applaud her for being fortunate enough to have a choice that most do not. And THAT I think is the source of much of the sour grapes.

The 20s.....another phase...young enough to think you know it all when in fact you know ZILCH. And for those of us who've been around and worked things out long ago, listening to people less than half your age condemn another woman who's never uttered one word publicly for her ALLEGED life choices is equivalent to hearing background static on the radio or nails on a blackboard. Again, take your pick.

 

[Duchess]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with some of you. I think it is foolish for a woman to live solely for her man. The reason why I say this is because I have known women who have done this, and what sad stories they are. They're only source of identity is the man in their lives. All his interests are theirs, all his opinions are theirs, and so on. What happens when their man leaves them or dies? What then? What will they do with themselves? How will they think for themselves? A man is not going to be around forever, so it is best for a woman to have a life separate from a man.

As for the men in these types of relationships, I've noticed they are controlling, domineering, overly needy and often rude towards their women because they know they can get away with it. That's because they know their women can't live without a man in their lives. Men like that will always use that knowledge against their women.

Getting back to Prince William and Kate Middleton, if she is a "man pleaser", then I see that a character flaw for both of them. Kate is a pathetic woman who is afraid to be on her own, and Prince William is way too needy. I mean, what kind of man wants a woman who thinks he's a god, just because he so happens to be a man? Sounds like a severely insecure man who seriously lacks of confidence.

I know I'm going to be flamed for what I just said, but I had to say it. I based my opinion on what I have seen in life. For me, the point of the woman's movement was for women to have their own lives away from men, and for men not to be domineering towards women. Any woman, to me, who allows a man to dominate them, is setting the woman's movement back 50 years.

but these women chose to allow this to happen. if a person doesn't have interests or hobbies outside their marriage then that's because they've chosen not to persue any. if they've allowed their husband to dominate them it's because they've allowed him to do it. i'm sure that catherine has her own friends, whether she's met them through william or on her own. she probably has her own interests and hobbies as well...just because we don't hear about them doesn't mean she doesn't have them. i can tell you that i have almost no interests outside my marriage and i'm quite happy. most of the interests that i do have, my husband shares with me. he is not domineering and i am free to do as i please. i do work outside the home but would give it up in a heartbeat to be able to stay home and do the housework and the cooking and the laundry. it's an individual choice, obviously not for everyone but some people like it.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

actually, the more i don't hear from kate the more i like her

however, i don't believe that the recent "no show" comes naturally but has partly been enforced by the media coverage, resulting in some serious consultations by whoever advises her. my guess is that if kate had lived as a "no show" in the past, if all these events like roller disco, sisterhood project and some boozy nights out in short dresses hadn't happened, there would have been no need for an image correction that is obviously on the way for some time now.

i am not sure much has changed in kate's life, she may work or not, shop or not, be on holiday or not but the difference is that most of it now happens outside the public eye now. her much discussed past lifestyle was bound to cause controversy - somebody must have told her to stay out of the kitchen if she felt it was getting too hot, what she is doing now.