William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2005 - 2008

[Lady Ann]

Well I wish they would just get on with it all ready! For everyones sake! They will, they won't, my GOD how many years have the forums ready the same and believe me I have been a reader longer then a member. It has just gotten so old. IMO I love them as a couple and wish they would marry tomorrow if they could.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

My sentiments exactly. But slowly I tire of William. In the beginning I was a staunch supporter of the couple but my view on William is changing. I've started to believe he is a taker, not a giver and that he takes and takes from Catherine while condemning her to a purgatory of waiting, with no chance of an independant career but facing the ridicule of the media without any protection. I'll give them till St. Valentine's day 2009 for an engagement announcement but if this is not forthcoming, I'll wash my hands off them and start to have serious fears for the British monarchy under a king William.

 

[muriel]

Poor William. Not only must he contend with any ultimatums Kate might be throwing at him, he now has one from Jo. Oh dear, the poor chap. My sympathies with him for the quandry he is now in!

Jest aside, its a bit difficult to comment on whether "he is a taker, not a giver and that he takes and takes from Catherine while condemning her to a purgatory of waiting" -we really do not have a clue of the actual dynamic of their relationship. I do think he is doing the right thing isn getting his military career properly underway before marrying. He is not out of step with his generation - not many marry at 26. The difficulty is really because Kate is unable to build an independent career for herself becuase of media pressures - but I am reasonably sure they have an agreed position between themselves. I have said this previously, I think the correct time for them to marry will be the summer of 2010, after he has completed his 18 month SAR training, and before he starts his full time attachment. This will allow them to then have a few years of forces life (quite like the Queen and Prince Philip), before he enters full time royal life.

 

[Shaiya]

Why doesn't Kate just propose to him? I mean, who said it has to be the guy? =D

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

^Works for me
At least it would be original

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The difficulty is really because Kate is unable to build an independent career for herself becuase of media pressures - but I am reasonably sure they have an agreed position between themselves.

Of course I do think the same, that they have an agreed position. But still I wished Catherine would get more open support from him. She was not at his farewell party before the Africa trek and she probably was not at his father's birthday party at Highgrove (even though the Mail is claiming that she was) and they are not seen in public together. Okay, that could be because they don't want any more media speculation but I miss even those paparazzi pics that don't give enough material for an article but show that those two have something of a life together. Like William driving to Berkshire or the two of them sitting quietly in a pizzeria. Things that were seen before but have ceased to exist.

A lot of members here scan the picture agencies but didn't come up with any pics of them and in the era of mobile phone cameras, it can only mean that they are not meeting in any public place at all. And that is a bit odd if I am to believe in their lasting love for each other. There are lots and lots of explanations for this and I have felt for quite a long time that these could be correct but as I said: my gut feeling is changing and I don't think that the way Catherine is at the receiving end of that kind of relationship is good for her. I really like her, so I wish she would be put in a position that she can have her own life and fun even though she is connected with William.

For example: I doubt she is overly happy to be back at her parent's house in the wilderness of Berkshire. To bunk with Mom and Dad and working for them is okay for a time but it can't be what she wants for her future. I doubt she is happy to have to live in a way that she can keep a low profile. But I have the feeling that this is how William wants it to be. He does not want to be forced into a marriage like his father was, he abhorrs the media, he wants to select the moment when he proposes. IMHO, of course. But with this attitude he forces a sort of life on Catherine that can't be fulfilling. She probably agrees with it because she loves him and he is a prize for some women but it can't go on forever that way.

 

[Luv2Cruise]

My sentiments exactly...

Totally understand your sentiment. He's a ditherer like his father. And I sense a bit of selfishness as well. It would not kill any of them for him to clarify this situation with a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor: "we are a serious couple but we both are young, are trying to have some semblance of careers, and have no plans to marry for the next several years. You'll be the first to know when that changes." That simple statement I think would be most helpful to Kate. This self-imposed -- or not -- exile is silly. She can't go shopping or walk down the streets in London anymore for fear of upsetting the RF by attracting too many paparazzi and marriage speculation? As much as I would love to see them marry, she does need to think about and fear joining this dysfunction and taking a back seat to the extremely precious and fragile egos of her boyfriend and his "papa."

 

[muriel]

Of course I do think the same, that they have an agreed position...

I actually think it is a good thing that they are staying out of the media spotlight. Yes, it would be great for us to see photograhs of them out, but I do thnk it is probably better for "them" (as opposed to us, the public!) to escape the publicity. They probably go out just as often, but probably to places where they are less likely to be seen. There are enough places between Berkshire (where she lives) and Gloucestershire (Highgrove) where you are unlikely to find paparazzi photographers, so I really would not worry about her not getting enough pizza.

In terms of public support from William for her, I thought the clearest sign so far may have been that she was at the Garter ceremony and when he got his RAF wings. As you say, we don't actually know whether she was at the Highgrove party - she could just have arrived early and left the next day.

For example: I doubt she is overly happy to be back at her parent's house in the wilderness of Berkshire...

In our lives, because of specific situatios, we all have to make compromises, because that is what is best in the guiven set of circumstances - IMO that is exactly what is happening at the moment. Not ideal from Kate's perspective, but just something she has to work through.

I think they are both wise enough to know of the burdens that they will be subjected to the moment they announce their intention to marry, and if the current arrangement allows Kate to enjoy a degree of freedom, then that is great.

 

[muriel]

Totally understand your sentiment. He's a ditherer like his father...

I can't help but disgree. We really do no have any basis on refer to him either as a ditherer or as being selfish. We have absolutley no clue as to their relationship, and whether they have already made some sort of commitment to each other.

As regards engaging with the press and talking to them about future plans for their private lives, I think that is a big no no! I am afraid that is just not how things are done - be it communications from royal families, governments or corporates. Little to be gained, IMO. The last time a member engaged with the press in relation to her private lives, it all ended in tears, and a nasty car crash!

.....she does need to think about and fear joining this dysfunction and taking a back seat to the extremely precious and fragile egos of her boyfriend and his "papa."

What dysfunction might you be referring to?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I share those sentiments towards William but honestly, we cannot be surprised. I am not a psychologist but looking at what he went through during his childhood and growing up it makes perfectly sense that he is not anywhere near a commitment yet - at least towards Kate. Instead he committed himself to the RAF - a perfect opportunity to escape the pressure of moving on with Kate what is obviously not on his agenda. I can't imagine a more powerful gesture towards the public than that, saying: "Forget about me getting married in the next 7 years!" And rightly so - William has all the time in the world, he can still get married 10, 15 years from now and depending on how he decides to fill that timeslot (focussing on duty) nobody will even raise an eyebrow. But it leaves Kate standing out in the rain.

There have been enough "proofs" now that Kate obviously is not the one special person - in sugary terms "the love of his life" - otherwise he would be much more protective of her. It would be an easy thing to do but, no. I believe they do have an agreed position - William simply told her that he is not ready to commit and doesn't know when that will be and Kate accepts this position, maybe because she loves him and because she doesn't have a choice, it's like "sink or swim". I am dead sure if she enforced a decision she would get her leaving ticket, she knows that and therefore keeps quiet. William is determined not to make his father's mistakes, maybe he already had a glimpse on "true love" during previous relationships (Jecca?) without the option of a serious relationship. Maybe this is what he is missing in his serious but handy, comfortable and standstill relationship with Kate, knowing at the same time that it might not be enough for a life together. Kate could easily break under the pressure as his wife and William would find himself in the same position as Charles, failed having pursued "true love". William won't go for second best when chosing a wife, that's for sure, he can't afford to do so. Unfortunately for Kate, she doesn't have another 10-15 years, and the longer the non-decision-situation goes on the more she is being labelled "second class". This whole relationship has turned into a win-win situation for William but into a lose-lose situation for Kate.

 

[Idriel]

^Duke I must disagree with you.
William's romantic prospect are always vastly exaggerated, imo.
William is a man who could have as many one-night-stands as he pleases (sorry if I sound crude) but when it comes to a girlfriend, his 'most wanted' status is a media fabrication.
There are a lot of girls who would love to date him but in my opinion most of them are naive outsiders whose idea of royal life is a succession of glitzy party and who wants the fairytale. They love the idea of dating a handsome (???) Prince and the glamour associated with it but don't really understand what it entails. Such girls would break like a twig under the media pressure and wouldn't last a week as his gf, imo.
Then there are the posh girls. He dated a couple when he was young but it was when he was still protected by the press agreement and so they were anonymous and not subjected to media harassment. Would Arabella or Jecca date him again? I doubt so. What's in it for these girls? They already have the status, the money and the lifestyle. They also are insiders and have seen up-close how unappealing, dull and demanding royal life can be, not to mention brutal. Why would they want to burden themselves with that kind of drama? Not to be mean but judging from his fading looks and the very little amount of personality William has displayed so far in interviews (the latest- the Diana Concert one- being the worst to date) I can't see how he would be worth the trouble. I'm sure a lot of these posh totties would love to add him to their little black book but my take is he is very unlikely to find a posh girl to seriously date him now that he is fair game for the media.

Then there is Kate. She is pretty much the only girl outside his social circle he has ever let in. She was lucky to have met him at Uni where maybe he wasn't so guarded as he his now because if it were today I highly doubt he would even try to get to know her. His social circle is very small and he comes off as paranoid to me.
The way I see it, Kate will be the one because she pretty much his only prospect. In his position, he can't afford to be so picky. I doubt he would find another girl that is acceptable by his family and the public, that he can trust and more critically, that is willing to be in a committed relationship with him. Like you I don't believe Kate is The One. But I believe she is the only one.
Just my two cents.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The way I see it, Kate will be the one because she pretty much his only prospect. In his position, he can't afford to be so picky. I doubt he would find another girl that is acceptable by his family and the public, that he can trust and more critically, that is willing to be in a committed relationship with him. Like you I don't believe Kate is The One. But I believe she is the only one.

His father married a woman who wasn't "the one" and not only we, but especially William knows the desastrous outcome. I doubt he will marry Kate because she is the only prospect - he'd rather stay a bachelor and bring the monarchy to an end than getting married to someone because there is no other option. We've been here before.

 

[muriel]

^Duke I must disagree with you.
William's romantic prospect are always vastly exaggerated, imo...

I think that is a really interesting perspective, and you have raised some very interesting points. I am not sure that I am as defeatist in my outlook, but I do accept that it will be difficult for him to find a girl who he loves, trusts and respects, and a girl who is willing to take on the pressures and priviledges that come with it.

His relationship with Kate has stood the test of time, despite a lot of recent speculation, but it does need to be taken into account that he is still only 26. I don't know very many 26 years olds these days who get married. The other point is that the moment they marry, Kate will have to start working as a royal full time, and be expected to produce and heir fairly soon - I don't think the press will be very kind if they took 6-7 years to produce one. So in addition to being ready for marriag, they should be ready to have children - just an added consideration for Will & Kate when considering their future.

 

[Idriel]

His father married a woman who wasn't "the one" and not only we, but especially William knows the desastrous outcome.

His father married a woman he had nothing in common with and that he did not know. It is a vastly different situation than that of William.
William and Kate are undeniably good friends, with a common circle of friends, common interests and are comfortable in each other company. You cannot compare that to Charles and Diana.
Also, saying that William would be so stubborn as to bring the monarchy to an end is mis-evaluating his character. No everybody share this ultra romantic vision of love, especially men. I believe William would wait out to see if The One would come (and would be willing to be with him) and if she didn't, would settle for a trusted, loyal friend, even if he doesn't love her with all his heart.

 

[kimebear]

I would be more inclined to believe that William didn't care enough for Kate if they had not gotten back together after their breakup. William was free and clear. A little media bruised, but nothing that would not have faded with the next girl on his arm. Instead, they renewed their relationship and Kate has been seen more officially with him since then. That is telling, IMO. I also don't believe that there is not at least one posh girl in their circle who would be willing to step up to the position in a heartbeat.

 

[Idriel]

I would be more inclined to believe that William didn't care enough for Kate if they had not gotten back together after their breakup. William was free and clear.

Well if you believe she is The One you can read that as him realising he made a huge mistake. Or if like me you beleive she is just convenient you can read that as him realising that replacing her would be very arduous. What you call free I call lonely. All a question of perspective.

I also don't believe that there is not at least one posh girl in their circle who would be willing to step up to the position in a heartbeat.

Yes, there might be a couple willing (I was generalising to make a point, not being extra literal), but there is no guaranty Will would be attracted or would love them more than Kate. But really my point was that his prospects are quite narrow. That idea that there are rows of girls lining up to be his girlfriend... those in his social circle are not lining up and he isn't adventurous enough to look beyond that (Kate being the one and only exception, and that was years ago). Imo, of course

 

[Menarue]

Aren´t there any eligible princesses around these days?
I agree with the fading looks though, he is looking more and more like his Uncle Spencer every day. But then these years have taken a toll as far as Kate is concerned too, she doesn´t look as good as she did a few years ago.....IMHO.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Aren´t there any eligible princesses around these days?

To be honest - no. I know of one German "princess" (as we don't have princesses anymore, but if the old regime still worked, she would be a "real" princess) who was introduced to Harry and said: no way! And I understand that suitable ladies of today have much better prospects - times changed..

 

[qui mal y pense]

IMO We know nothing about what is really going on but one thing- that Kate is discreet. I'm sure that to William that is the most important thing, given his distaste for the paparazzi. If you have someone you can trust and respect, that is the most important thing.

 

[kimebear]

Yes, there might be a couple willing (I was generalising to make a point, not being extra literal), but there is no guaranty Will would be attracted or would love them more than Kate...

But it was always going to be like that for William. For all the talk about how he should be free to marry whomever he chooses, in reality he isn't. If he is to do his part to preserve the monarchy he was always going to have to choose a woman that understands the "job" and the discretion that must come with it whether with a woman from inside his circle or out of it.

While it is very easy to say that many women outside of his circle could rise to the occasion, a far greater percentage could not do it successfully and he would have to weed his way through them until he found his "true love". So, I see it not so much as an unwillingness on his part to take a chance on an unknown quanity, but rather an unwillingness to knowingly spend countless years searching through bad prospects. Of course he could look to Frederick of Denmark, Willem-Alexander of The Netherlands, Felipe of Spain and even Haakon of Norway to see successful marriages with women outside of the royal circles. Then again, I think it could be argued that the British throne carries a bit more expectation with it. Perhaps an unfair assumption, but there it is.

Kate has already proven to be discrete and loyal and, perhaps, those are qualities he is unwilling to cast aside for the unknown.

 

[Menarue]

That is the question, is it all settled? If they are going to get engaged it will probably be announced near Christmas, if it is off will they say anything or just let the whole business fade away, because if Kate isn´t William´s girlfriend or fiancee or whatever she will be of no interest to newspapers or paps.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I don't think so; not yet. We'll just have to wait and see. ]

 

[Menarue]

We´ll all have to be Waity Katies in fact.

 

[contessa]

Who knows he may do as Prince Albert of Monaco, Not get married until later in life......

 

[Mermaid1962]

Good thing that I'm in no rush.

We´ll all have to be Waity Katies in fact.

 

[blondie28]

If they get married it won't be within the next few years. I don't think William wants to get married now. I don't think he even wants to marry Kate.

 

[Menarue]

Good thing that I'm in no rush.

Give us all time to buy some really stunning outfits to wear to the wedding!

 

[kimebear]

This thread is being re-opened with the hope that we can be more on topic and less hostile. This is a reminder to posters to please respect the other posters opinions whether you agree with them or not.

Since there has been no real mention of Kate in the press of late, the temptation to over-speculate has run wild. Could we please try to keep this in check?

Also, please remember that this thread is for William and Kate so posts about Chelsy have been removed.

For the second time, you are reminded that this is not a thread about William and Jecca or William and any other girlfriend. These posts will be deleted.

kimebear
For the British Forum Moderators

 

[muriel]

But it was always going to be like that for William...

Very well said. I think the choice was never going to be an easy one for somebody in William's position.

 

[muriel]

If they get married it won't be within the next few years. I don't think William wants to get married now. I don't think he even wants to marry Kate.

Thats certainly a thought. I would love to hear your reaons for for your thinking on the topic.