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  #881  
Old 12-06-2010, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
My point was that this time the ring is being given out of love. I didn't choose my engagement ring either, and I have only met a few women who have. I have known women that have received family engagement rings and although it was not their particular taste, they loved it due to the sentiment behind it and what it meant to their future husband's to have them wear it. Who knows...if they have a son, perhaps this will become a tradition.

Every woman I know has chosen their engagement ring, including myself, my mother, my mother-in-law and extended female relatives. If any man had expected me to wear someone else's engagement ring I would have thrown it at him and so would every woman I work with - we have discussed this very thing since the engagement and none of us would have said yes to him under those circumstances as we would see that as a lack of love for us and also, as one colleague put it, a sign that he really wants to marry his mother. We had a very extensive look at each other's rings and the reasons they were bought, given etc and only one person is wearing a hand-me-down ring although all of us have them. She is wearing it because of the tradition in her family that the first girl gets her great-great-grandmother's eternity ring on the birth of the first daughter.

I do have my mother-in-law's engagement ring (and my mother's) but they were not given to me as engagement rings and I don't wear them as I find that idea creepy. They are in a safe and will be reset into totally different rings at some time in the future. My daughters have told me they would run a mile rather than wear my engagement or wedding rings as such and my son has simply said - he loved his fiancee too much to consider not buying her a ring of her own. He could have given her a much more grand ring had he used one or more of my rings but he says that shows a lack of love.

Different perspectives obviously.
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  #882  
Old 12-06-2010, 02:39 AM
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All of the sentiments of yourself, your family & your work colleauges are all well and good but you are not in the blaze of publicity that William is. Great Britain is under serious financial constraints at the moment with the ordinary folk being asked to "go short" by the government. The message that would have been sent out had a brand new ring been purchased when that $75k rock was sitting in the vault was not the right one. It appears to me that William can't win!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Every woman I know has chosen their engagement ring, including myself, my mother, my mother-in-law and extended female relatives. If any man had expected me to wear someone else's engagement ring I would have thrown it at him and so would every woman I work with - we have discussed this very thing since the engagement and none of us would have said yes to him under those circumstances as we would see that as a lack of love for us and also, as one colleague put it, a sign that he really wants to marry his mother. We had a very extensive look at each other's rings and the reasons they were bought, given etc and only one person is wearing a hand-me-down ring although all of us have them. She is wearing it because of the tradition in her family that the first girl gets her great-great-grandmother's eternity ring on the birth of the first daughter.

I do have my mother-in-law's engagement ring (and my mother's) but they were not given to me as engagement rings and I don't wear them as I find that idea creepy. They are in a safe and will be reset into totally different rings at some time in the future. My daughters have told me they would run a mile rather than wear my engagement or wedding rings as such and my son has simply said - he loved his fiancee too much to consider not buying her a ring of her own. He could have given her a much more grand ring had he used one or more of my rings but he says that shows a lack of love.

Different perspectives obviously.
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  #883  
Old 12-06-2010, 03:10 AM
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I also thought about the economic situation when I saw that Kate was given Diana's ring. Had William purchased an engagement that worth so many thousands people would have seen it as the BRF being extravagant. The ring is beautiful and Kate seems to be happy with it. It isn't a bad way to recycle
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  #884  
Old 12-06-2010, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wymanda View Post
All of the sentiments of yourself, your family & your work colleauges are all well and good but you are not in the blaze of publicity that William is. Great Britain is under serious financial constraints at the moment with the ordinary folk being asked to "go short" by the government. The message that would have been sent out had a brand new ring been purchased when that $75k rock was sitting in the vault was not the right one. It appears to me that William can't win!

There are literally hundreds of other 'rocks' in the royal collection he could have had made into a nice ring for Kate that she could have designed herself.

As they are going to be costing the British economy billions (yes billions) of pounds in lost productivity on the day of the wedding the cost of a new ring is a drop in the ocean.

If he really cared he could have said that he wanted a quiet wedding that would cost the British taxpayers nothing - security for the day is estimated at about 30 million pounds and the lost productivity of another public holiday in Easter week is put at 6 billion pounds with 1 billion back due to the wedding. In other words his marriage will cost Britain a good part of 5 billion pounds as people take an extended few days off due to the timing - hardly the sign on someone who cares about the economy.

He then will spent more going overseas for his honeymoon (fine he and the Middletons will pay for that) but the first class air-fares and first class hotels etc of his and Kate's security will also have to be born by the British taxpayers - if he cared he would honeymoon in Britain so that the security people could go to their own homes when off-duty.

William doesn't care about the British taxpayers or economy - he cares about himself and that is all (as do the entire royal family with the possible exception of the Queen, who does vacation in Britain).
  #885  
Old 12-06-2010, 03:55 AM
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If you dislike them so much why are you on this forum? Leave it to those of us with constructive comment to make. A few points however:

1. I'm sure William & Catherine would prefer a quiet wedding at Windsor with their family and friends around them but the British public want a show.

2. The "Lost billions in productivity" will be offset by the tourist dollars, sales of tacky trinkets etc.

As I said to start; "If you dislike them so much, why are you on this forum"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There are literally hundreds of other 'rocks' in the royal collection he could have had made into a nice ring for Kate that she could have designed herself.

As they are going to be costing the British economy billions (yes billions) of pounds in lost productivity on the day of the wedding the cost of a new ring is a drop in the ocean.

If he really cared he could have said that he wanted a quiet wedding that would cost the British taxpayers nothing - security for the day is estimated at about 30 million pounds and the lost productivity of another public holiday in Easter week is put at 6 billion pounds with 1 billion back due to the wedding. In other words his marriage will cost Britain a good part of 5 billion pounds as people take an extended few days off due to the timing - hardly the sign on someone who cares about the economy.

He then will spent more going overseas for his honeymoon (fine he and the Middletons will pay for that) but the first class air-fares and first class hotels etc of his and Kate's security will also have to be born by the British taxpayers - if he cared he would honeymoon in Britain so that the security people could go to their own homes when off-duty.

William doesn't care about the British taxpayers or economy - he cares about himself and that is all (as do the entire royal family with the possible exception of the Queen, who does vacation in Britain).
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  #886  
Old 12-06-2010, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
In other words his marriage will cost Britain a good part of 5 billion pounds as people take an extended few days off due to the timing - hardly the sign on someone who cares about the economy.
Who is the "British economy"? Even if such sums are "lost", they are not lost for the ordinary people but for the owners and shareholders of the businesses - people who themselves fly first-class if they can afford it. So why care?

As for the cost of security: AFAIK Britain is a democracy where the people decide who gets to spend their taxes. In this case, they decided to keep their Royal family and the politicians allowed William and Catherine to marry in the style traditional for the BRF. That costs - but if people seriously have problems with that they should abolish the monarchy. Thus far the Royal wedding has not helped the cause of the republicans.

Who talks about the fact that this year's christmas and boxing days are a saturday and sunday? If the economy looses so much money due to a public holiday, surely they win in a constellation like this, when no public holidays are at week days? Why not ask the winners of this money to give a bit of it for the Royal wedding, which makes a lot of ordinary people happy with the chance to win some extra days off in a row without loosing too much of their holidays.
  #887  
Old 12-06-2010, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda View Post
If you dislike them so much why are you on this forum? Leave it to those of us with constructive comment to make. A few points however:

1. I'm sure William & Catherine would prefer a quiet wedding at Windsor with their family and friends around them but the British public want a show.

2. The "Lost billions in productivity" will be offset by the tourist dollars, sales of tacky trinkets etc.

As I said to start; "If you dislike them so much, why are you on this forum"
When I joined this board there was no mention that you had to like the royals to post. Please show me where it says that.

The 'lost billions in productivity' figures I am giving includes the income generated from the wedding - 1 billion in income from the wedding, 6 billion in total lost income to business due to two long weekends in successive weeks resulting in high absentism on the working days between Monday and Friday that week (3 working days in 11) gives a total of 5 billion pounds lost.

I must say this - the most aggressive posts I have seen on this board have come about from people who won't allow any criticism of William and Kate.
  #888  
Old 12-06-2010, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Who is the "British economy"? Even if such sums are "lost", they are not lost for the ordinary people but for the owners and shareholders of the businesses - people who themselves fly first-class if they can afford it. So why care?

As for the cost of security: AFAIK Britain is a democracy where the people decide who gets to spend their taxes. In this case, they decided to keep their Royal family and the politicians allowed William and Catherine to marry in the style traditional for the BRF. That costs - but if people seriously have problems with that they should abolish the monarchy. Thus far the Royal wedding has not helped the cause of the republicans.

Who talks about the fact that this year's christmas and boxing days are a saturday and sunday? If the economy looses so much money due to a public holiday, surely they win in a constellation like this, when no public holidays are at week days? Why not ask the winners of this money to give a bit of it for the Royal wedding, which makes a lot of ordinary people happy with the chance to win some extra days off in a row without loosing too much of their holidays.

The cost to an economy like Britain's at the moment of 3 working days in 11 is going to be enormous - Good Friday, weekend, Easter Monday, three working days, Wedding, Weekend and May Day Monday - businesses in Britain can't afford to lose that sort of money - and the ordinary people will lose in the end - some of them possibly sooner rather than later. Business knows that a number of people will take those extra three days off, sick, and that is where the cost is coming from. No one will be making money as business will be losing it.

As for Britain being a democracy - I am not so sure - they didn't get to decide to give away their sovreignty to Brussels, as promised by their politicians, they have no say in their Head of State etc.
  #889  
Old 12-06-2010, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
When I joined this board there was no mention that you had to like the royals to post. Please show me where it says that.

The 'lost billions in productivity' figures I am giving includes the income generated from the wedding - 1 billion in income from the wedding, 6 billion in total lost income to business due to two long weekends in successive weeks resulting in high absentism on the working days between Monday and Friday that week (3 working days in 11) gives a total of 5 billion pounds lost.

I must say this - the most aggressive posts I have seen on this board have come about from people who won't allow any criticism of William and Kate.
Lets just put this in context. There will be 5 bank holidays in the April / May period in 2011, instead of the usual 4. Thats hardly going to materially shoft the balance, or create 6 billion of lost productivity.


Its easy to cook up these statistics without basis (or on spurious information) to push ones republican or other agendas, but IMO, any modicum of impartiality being applied to these facts might lead to conclusions other than those being espoused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
William doesn't care about the British taxpayers or economy - he cares about himself and that is all (as do the entire royal family with the possible exception of the Queen, who does vacation in Britain).
Pray how might you have come to this conclusion in the context of Williams wedding? William did not ask for the day to be declared a holiday, it was a decision taken by the Prime Minister and the coalition government. You can have a view about what William cares about or not, but if you set forth a position, you ought to be willing to defend it.
  #890  
Old 12-06-2010, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Lets just put this in context. There will be 5 bank holidays in the April / May period in 2011, instead of the usual 4. Thats hardly going to materially shoft the balance, or create 6 billion of lost productivity.

Its easy to cook up these statistics without basis (or on spurious information) to push ones republican or other agendas, but IMO, any modicum of impartiality being applied to these facts might lead to conclusions other than those being espoused.
I am using the figures that were put out by British business leaders over the last couple of weeks due to the fact that there are only three working days in an 11 day period - that is not normal and they expect many people to effectively take the three days off as well. Easter is late this year and thus falls the weekend before the May Day public holiday.

Had the wedding been a couple of weeks later there would still be the same number of holidays but most people would still go to work for the 4 days after Easter and before the May Day holiday but now they expect quite a number not to do so.
  #891  
Old 12-06-2010, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The cost to an economy like Britain's at the moment of 3 working days in 11 is going to be enormous - Good Friday, weekend, Easter Monday, three working days, Wedding, Weekend and May Day Monday - businesses in Britain can't afford to lose that sort of money - and the ordinary people will lose in the end - some of them possibly sooner rather than later. Business knows that a number of people will take those extra three days off, sick, and that is where the cost is coming from. No one will be making money as business will be losing it.

As for Britain being a democracy - I am not so sure - they didn't get to decide to give away their sovreignty to Brussels, as promised by their politicians, they have no say in their Head of State etc.

Any economic gain from tourism during this royal wedding will be a gain to London only. Hotels, restaurants and other companies in London, not in the rest of an already impoverished country.

I totally agree with you on the democracy issue. Evidence suggests more and more that Britain is lurching towards being a police state and its masters are in Brussels, but also the US government.

I am happy Wills has chosen Kate. But I think it would be much more sensitive of them to have a quiet wedding.
  #892  
Old 12-06-2010, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I am using the figures that were put out by the business people over the last couple of weeks due to the fact that there are only three working days in an 11 day period - that is not normal and they expect many people to effectively take the three days off as well.

Had the wedding been a couple of weeks later there would still be the same number of holidays but most people would still go to work for the 4 days after Easter and before the May Day holiday but now they expect quite a number not to do so.
It is very common for most people in Britain to take holidays around the Easter period and go away, often skiing, but sometime further afield. Another day is really not going to make any material difference - all that will do is give people some choice as to when they want to take time off. For example, most years we take between 1-2 weeks off around Easter because of the way that Good Friday / Easter Monday fall. Often we spend that time with friends and family in the US. That is not really going to change for us, though we may find we have visitors over this year around the time of the wedding.

Britain is largely a service economy, not a manufacturing one. There may be one-off short term spikes in consumption / demand, but these things always even themselves out over the course of the year. For example, retail sales will not drop as onb ost bank holidays, shops are open for up to 6 hours. Net based etailers will also not be suffering.
  #893  
Old 12-06-2010, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Pray how might you have come to this conclusion in the context of Williams wedding? William did not ask for the day to be declared a holiday, it was a decision taken by the Prime Minister and the coalition government. You can have a view about what William cares about or not, but if you set forth a position, you ought to be willing to defend it.

He could have chosen a venue that precluded that option. He could have had the wedding on a weekend. There are lots of things he could have done but of course he didn't. He chose a large venue in the capital on a weekday knowing that people would want to come and thus virtually forcing the government to declare a public holiday - as they know people would be taking the day off.
  #894  
Old 12-06-2010, 06:45 AM
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Kate and William have been together for eight years and discussing marriage for a long time now. I'm sure they must have discussed the ring and she had a choice no one I don't care who they are is going to wear a ring they don't want. Are there people in Britain that are complaining about having a day off I would think they would be happy to have one more day off.
  #895  
Old 12-06-2010, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
He could have chosen a venue that precluded that option. He could have had the wedding on a weekend. There are lots of things he could have done but of course he didn't. He chose a large venue in the capital on a weekday knowing that people would want to come and thus virtually forcing the government to declare a public holiday - as they know people would be taking the day off.
As you rightly say, many people want to attend the wedding, and if that is what the British people want, why moan about it?

If William had chosen to marry at a private ceremony, there would have been very severe criticism for them not sharing their day with the nation.
  #896  
Old 12-06-2010, 07:05 AM
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As you rightly say, many people want to attend the wedding, and if that is what the British people want, why moan about it?

If William had chosen to marry at a private ceremony, there would have been very severe criticism for them not sharing their day with the nation.

I am not moaning - British business leaders are. They know that they won't be making the contribution to the government coffers they would normally make over those days and thus the British people will have to tighten their belts even more but that is their loss so be it.


I give the point of view of the British business leaders and so it is supposed to be mine - well it isn't.
  #897  
Old 12-06-2010, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by princess carmen View Post
Kate and William have been together for eight years and discussing marriage for a long time now. I'm sure they must have discussed the ring and she had a choice no one I don't care who they are is going to wear a ring they don't want. Are there people in Britain that are complaining about having a day off I would think they would be happy to have one more day off.

The British business leaders are complaining - not about the day off but about the fact that there are four public holidays and four weekend days in an 11 day period.

Friday 22nd - Good Friday - public holiday
Saturday 23rd - Easter Satruday
Sunday 24th - Easter Day
Monday 25th - Easter Monday
Tuesday 26th - working day
Wednesday 27th - working day
Thursday 28th - working day
Friday 29th - royal wedding - public holiday
Saturday 30th - weekend
Sunday 1st - weekend
Monday 2nd - May Day public holiday

It is the fact that there is a three day week between two four day weekends that the business leaders are complaining about as they know that people will take the extra three days off and thus will cost the country billions of pounds.
  #898  
Old 12-06-2010, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
As for Britain being a democracy - I am not so sure - they didn't get to decide to give away their sovreignty to Brussels, as promised by their politicians, they have no say in their Head of State etc.
There are several types of democracies. What you mean is the direct democracy and yes, Britain does not have a direct democracy.

But Britain has a parliamentarian democracy: The people had decided who was to represent them on making the decision at the time of the EU-entry.

They could eg vote for a parliament whose order is to abolish the monarchy. If all Britons (except the RF) or most of them (depending on the rules in the UK) decided to abolish the monarchy, it could be abolished. They then could ask The Prince of Wales (or Charles Windsor, Duke of Cornwall, as he would probably be known then, as abolishing the monarchy would not necessarily mean abolishing the aristocratical way to name people) to become their president or king or however the head of state would be called then. Or they could decide not to offer him the job but somebody else. All things are possible in a democracy as long as enough people go for it and find politicians to represent their wishes in parliament.
  #899  
Old 12-06-2010, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The British business leaders are complaining - not about the day off but about the fact that there are four public holidays and four weekend days in an 11 day period.

Friday 22nd - Good Friday - public holiday
Saturday 23rd - Easter Satruday
Sunday 24th - Easter Day
Monday 25th - Easter Monday
Tuesday 26th - working day
Wednesday 27th - working day
Thursday 28th - working day
Friday 29th - royal wedding - public holiday
Saturday 30th - weekend
Sunday 1st - weekend
Monday 2nd - May Day public holiday

It is the fact that there is a three day week between two four day weekends that the business leaders are complaining about as they know that people will take the extra three days off and thus will cost the country billions of pounds.
It's not William's decison to declare his wedding day a national holiday - why anyway, he is not the heir to the throne himself, is he? And why have May Day as a public holiday when the 1st of May actually is a sunday? Here in Germany, that's that. Bad timing that May Day is a sunday but work goes on as usual on the next monday. So the reason is more hte Brtish system of public holidays than William's decision to marry in April.

It could be read that Catherine and William actually would have preferred a March wedding but due to "public" wishes they had to go for late April.
  #900  
Old 12-06-2010, 07:35 AM
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The message that would have been sent out had a brand new ring been purchased when that $75k rock was sitting in the vault was not the right one. It appears to me that William can't win!
Being a member of the british public, I can safely say that a lot of people would have loved to see a new ring rather than an old one. This marraige is supposed to revitalise the monarchy, so far with the help of that ring, all it's done is bring back memories of the past. Fresh Start, New Ring.
I have no doubt that the ring was for sentimental purposes, and William didn't have the "sufferings of the poor" in mind when he decided to use it. Purchasing a new ring, would probably have done William's image better than using the old one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Pam View Post
Had William purchased an engagement that worth so many thousands people would have seen it as the BRF being extravagant. The ring is beautiful and Kate seems to be happy with it. It isn't a bad way to recycle
If William is the gentleman he seems, he would have paid for the ring himself. Therfore encuring no cost to the british public. Spending your own money can hardly be called extravagant when millions of people do it every single day. It is the government that is imposing restrictions on the general public not William and the Monarchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda View Post
1. I'm sure William & Catherine would prefer a quiet wedding at Windsor with their family and friends around them but the British public want a show.

2. The "Lost billions in productivity" will be offset by the tourist dollars, sales of tacky trinkets etc.
1; If they wanted a quiet life then give up their titles. The British public want the monarchy to show they are worth it. But if William wasn't an HRH then he could have a quiet wedding. I'm sure William and Kate are quite ready to show off.

2; The business' will loose more than they gain thanks to this wedding.
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