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  #1141  
Old 09-02-2012, 09:48 PM
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Kate will not be more popular because she will not strive to be adored by a mob of strangers who can turn on you in a minute. I believe the Royal Family has learned that popularity is fleeting and the masses are bipolar. She has the love of her husband, her family, and gets along with her in laws; no need to get the the tabloids on her side and be a headline every week to validate her self worth.
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  #1142  
Old 09-03-2012, 12:39 AM
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The media is a hungry beast. Diana fed them, Catherine does not. IIRC there wasn't a day when there was no report on Diana. But I see several days when there is no news about Catherine. Because Catherine likes it that way, no doubt.
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  #1143  
Old 09-03-2012, 02:10 AM
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Perhaps the press are giving the young couple some privacy during their honeymoon period...

Anyway, I find Catherine very likable. Also, she has a good traditional name for a queen consort: better than if she'd been called Poppy or Baylee or whatever people are calling their girls these days. Heck, there were three Queen Catherines under Henry VIII alone.
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  #1144  
Old 09-03-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi
Kate will not be more popular because she will not strive to be adored by a mob of strangers who can turn on you in a minute. I believe the Royal Family has learned that popularity is fleeting and the masses are bipolar. She has the love of her husband, her family, and gets along with her in laws; no need to get the the tabloids on her side and be a headline every week to validate her self worth.
Lets just remember that what Diana did not have Catherine does have. Love and Support of those around her. When it boils down to it when you are happy at home you do not need the world you got it all at home. The way Catherine genuinely and in a real way gets along with those around her it is not like please like me it is relax and enjoy the moment. I love and always will both the ladies but Diana wins the popularity contest but Catherine wins the I got it all so I do not need to win in popularity contest. So Catherine truly wins it all.
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  #1145  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
Rubbish! Diana actually got quite a lot of help and guidance from the palace. (the Diana victim version is she didn't, that's not the truth) She might not have had guidance over a wedding dress but then Kate's was entirely her choice as well!

Lady Susan Hussay was assigned to Diana to help her with palace protocol. The Buckingham Palace press secretary Michael O'Shea later wrote about how Diana was coached by the press office, even to the extent that she anonymously manned the phones and answered queries. She
was given press briefings and they practised her early speeches with her.

Diana was given an adviser ( name escapes me) whose help she ignored, famously tossing aside a book on previous princesses of wales, she was given.

The Palace organized for her to meet with stylists from Vogue to help with selecting her wardrobe.

Diana had a dresser Evelyn who even went on her honeymoon cruise, she was given a lot of help.
Kate has more less navigated her own way through, she doesn't have a stylist or a dresser, her
advisors are William's and Harry's team and she wasn't given a ladyinwaiting to help with
protocol.

By Diana's own calculations she had 13 not 5 dates with Charles. ( Streeton tapes) not a lot but she was given time to think over Charles's proposal. He proposed early February, she went to Australia with her mother for 3 weeks, she returned after 2 weeks and said yes. The engagement was announced Feb 24th. For her own reasons Diana was determined to marry Charles, she could have said no, she was given time to consider it (probably had her mother counsel against it since she married young to a man a lot older than her) and still said yes.
To answer the question will she become more popular? Different era, different women, Kate is better at 'disappearing' between engagements. The press don't like that, Diana arrived at the time that Rupert Murdock bought into the UK papers and he needed a media 'star' and he was able to do that with Diana. Kate era is one of the 24hour news cycle, and she ( and William in particular) seem to be determined to claw back some of those hours as private ones. This doesn't sit well with journalists covering the royals ( what will they write about!?) so they aren't going to champion her the way they did Diana. (plus Diana was a goldmine for them as she fed them stories, so even more favorable press coverage)
Charlotte1: The name of the adviser (who was actually technically posted to Charles - which given the Camilla situation probably wasn't the best idea for a trustful relationship) was Oliver Everett. It was his second secondment from the Foreign Office to the Office of the POW and he was warned he would not be welcome back at the F.O. When he and Diana parted ways, Charles made sure he received a plum, plum job; archivist at the Royal Family's Windsor Castle Archives. Everett is the one who supposedly gave her a pile of biographies of Queens Mary and Alexandra to read that Diana purportedly threw on the floor. (At nineteen, I don't know how many people would want to read that enormous Pope-Hennessey official bio! - although Battiscombe's Queen Alexandra shouldn't have been too daunting, IMHO.) Personally, I believe Diana felt intimidated by this "assignment", and considering the heavier reading material she gravitated towards as she got older, I think at 25 or 30, she not only would've read them, but would've appreciated the insight. Queen Mary completely sublimated her personality to that of George V and it manifested itself in rather interesting ways .

Lady Susan Hussey was considered the eyes and ears of the Queen (after Bobo MacDonald) and it makes sense to me that Diana would've found it hard to relax with and trust Lady Susan, knowing HM would be hearing all about their "lessons". Diana, at this point, still referred to adults as, "the grown-ups" (!) which is not a positive for a future Queen Consort from an aristo family!

I've certainly read about Diana answering Michael Shea's phone and the aid he tried to give her, but never about them practicing speeches with her prior to the wedding.

It was the other Michael, Michael Colborne, Charles' personal secretary, to whom Diana grew attached and to whom she both listened and poured out her heart. Charles grew jealous of their relationship and Colborne quit circa '84 as he did not want to be part of an office at war with itself.

The Palace did not arrange for Diana to meet with Vogue, that was accomplished by her sister, who previously worked for Anna Harvey, a deputy editor at British Vogue, who would "rack" the best selections of British designers for the Princess, regularly. Frances Shand Kydd also helped considerably with the shopping necessary for Diana's trousseau. (She also paid for most of it, including the wedding dress.)

Diana herself hired Evelyn Dagley to be her dresser. Evelyn had been the maid assigned to the BP nursery suite where Diana lived before the wedding and had naturally "fallen into" the role as Diana's wardrobe grew so quickly. Both Charles' valet, Stephen Barry and Evelyn Dagley were invited on the honeymoon as a "thank you" for their hard work during the run-up to the wedding. (I bet Barry was still putting toothpaste on the PoW's toothbrush in the yacht, vacation or no, .)

When (and if) Kate has a working/family juggle to perform full time as Diana did from Day One, IMO, we will see a dresser and an L-i-W or two, even if they are known by more modern titles. (Rebecca Deacon's current role comes to mind as a template.)

I am not familiar at all with the "Streeton Tapes" you refer to; do you know where I could listen to them or where there is some material about them? I'd be most grateful .

I don't think Rupert Murdoch could have made a star the magnitude of Diana in her heyday if Diana did not already have photogenic beauty and pure, old-fashioned charisma by the spadefuls. But I do think you are SO correct about the combination of the Murdoch's brand of tabloid journalism and Diana's star-power being seismic.

I don't believe Kate will ever approach Diana in terms of world-wide popularity (and I don't think Kate and William want that, either).

When Diana was in her early twenties, any mall was full of clothes inspired by her choices and full of women copying her and making her style their own. I can't think of a single item of fashion Kate has personally popularized similar to Diana's pearl chokers, low heels, puffed sleeves and pie-crust collars (and that's just a partial list ) Even the copies of Kate's wedding dress have just sat on the shelf, whilst Diana's crumpled meringue set the style for well over a decade.

If Kate gets a chance to come into her own, I think her popularity will be more akin to the late Queen Elizabeth's
rather than Diana's.

Yet again, it's just IMHO, but I think it interesting that for all of William's clear love for his Mother, down to giving Kate her engagement ring - he chose a woman very, very unlike his Mum. And I mean that in the true sense of "different", neither positive or negative.

On a lighter note, she could've used lessons from Diana in how to enter and exit a car properly when wearing a short skirt!
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  #1146  
Old 09-04-2012, 02:04 PM
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I think Catherine will become popular in her own right. She's already popular in the eyes of the media and with the young generation. I'm not sure she or William will like to have the same popularity as the late Princess of Wales. Although reaching that kind of status is almost out of their hands because the media have advanced since the Diana days.

I think people just have to allow Catherine to be herself and allow her to grow as a future Princess of Wales/Queen. I think she's doing a beautiful job so far.
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  #1147  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Aliza View Post
Yet again, it's just IMHO, but I think it interesting that for all of William's clear love for his Mother, down to giving Kate her engagement ring - he chose a woman very, very unlike his Mum. And I mean that in the true sense of "different", neither positive or negative.
I don't think we can say that as noone here has known these two women. I too thought my sister-in-law to be as unlike my mother as possible, but only at first. When I got to know her better I realised she was very similar to my mother in many small ways - the way she smiles and greets people, the way she cares for (and is sometimes stern with) her family. Other things but obviously those who are important for my brother and those I can recognice from my own experiences with out Maman.

So I doubt we have the insight to judge if William chose a wife like or unlike his mother. And how much his mother actually meant to him. My brother grew up without a nanny, so his motherly experiences came through our mother but with William it was different from the beginning. So we have no way of knowing if he looked for the presence of his own "motherly" experiences in his own wife and if so if these experience were the once he made with Diana.
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  #1148  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:18 PM
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Kate does seem more in line with Camilla or the Queen rather than Diana. I admit I find that odd, I'm sure the RF doesn't want another Diana and are happy Kate appears to be the opposite of her. I will say I don't think William purposely went out searching for someone who wasn't like his mom.
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  #1149  
Old 09-05-2012, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Kate does seem more in line with Camilla or the Queen rather than Diana. I admit I find that odd, I'm sure the RF doesn't want another Diana and are happy Kate appears to be the opposite of her. I will say I don't think William purposely went out searching for someone who wasn't like his mom.
Just to clarify my previous post: I did not mean that William deliberately set out to choose to marry a woman different from his Mum - just that IMHO, that's what happened. I personally don't see very much in common between Kate and Diana, but as another poster, Kataryn, noted - only the people involved in these actual relationships understand the dynamics at play - and at best, we can all give nothing more than guess-work and intuition!
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  #1150  
Old 09-05-2012, 08:41 AM
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Diana will never be forgotten, at least not by we people in the UK. Fair enough she was flawed but she was thrown like a lamb to the slaughter, to produce heirs to the throne, she did her duty by producing two wonderful sons. She was cast aside like an old piece of rag so that Charles could return to his old love, Camilla.
I think her sons are the legacy she has left this country and for that we are grateful.
Catherine will be Queen one day, I am not so sure about Camilla being Queen, there is still a lot of antagonism in the UK to the ided.
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  #1151  
Old 09-05-2012, 09:46 AM
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The point is that while Diana was very popular with some there were many people who had doubts about her (to put it mildly!) Certainly it is contentious to say she was "cast aside like an old rag".
The marriage was likely doomed from the start ( which is not to say they might not have been able ot establish a way to lead seperate lives without hte horrendous fallout out that actually followed)but there were clearly major faults on both sides.

Camilla gets more and more acceptable I think.I think she should be Queen in due course.I certainly think of the 3 -she ,Charles and Diana -she is the most "normal".Outside these kind of forums Diana is retreating into history (which will always be fascinated by her-see also JFK, Marilyn Monroe, James Dean and all the others who died young)
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  #1152  
Old 09-05-2012, 09:57 AM
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Let's stay on topic...will Catherine become more popular than Diana. This thread isn't about Camilla. Additional off topic posts will be deleted without notice.
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  #1153  
Old 09-05-2012, 10:44 AM
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I think we have to realise that time moves on and legacies change. We're more objective about what Diana did and what role she played within the Royal Family thanks to more information being made avaliable once the initial hysteria was over. Over the last 15 years, we've seen the press supply information that isn't complimentary and which could never have been published in the early years following Diana's death. Exactly the same has happened with the legacy of the Queen Mother. In the past, it was seen as nasty and sacrilegious to publish anything that portrayed her in any other light than the nation's favourite granny. So with that in mind, you have to look at the public mood when it comes to the Royal Family and what we expect.

The days of the warring Windsors are over. The public expect more from their monarchy and the major concern isn't how glamorous they are or how entertaining they can be, instead it's all about cost effectiveness. The affection for different members of the family aside, there's a reason why the majority of Brits will say that Princess Anne is their favourite member of the family. She works hard. The change in the attitude to Camilla has been because she's upped her workload. Our respect for the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh is largely based on the fact that at their advanced age, they continue to work a full year of engagements. When the Duchess of Cambridge came onto the scene, I suspect some people wanted a new Diana or thought we'd get one but they've been proved wrong. It's clear that whilst the Duchess has given the odd nod to Diana's work, she wants to be her own person within the firm and surely we should want nothing else? Why would we condemn a young woman to live out her life pretending to be someone she never met?

It's true that Diana's presence in the media has become sparse in recent years and that's no surprise. It's 2012, there's actually alot more things affecting the general population (who don't have a keen interest in royalty) which means that they couldn't care less about things that went on 20 years ago. In that mindset, it's what's happening today that counts and the Duchess of Cambridge is the newest member of the family who's been in the public eye alot and therefore is featured in our daily news. And yes, she's popular. I think the issue here is that people seem to be of the opinion that Diana made the Royal Family popular (which is debatable) and they expect the same of the Duchess of Cambridge. Again, times have changed and if anything, Katherine is just one factor in several changes to the Windsor family that has seen the Royal Family's approval ratings increase rather dramatically. Alot of it is down to the Queen's management of her dynasty. Charles is married and his wife is now a well liked member of the family. William is now married and his wife is a well liked member of the family. The Queen has taken that, made it the core of the family with herself and the Duke of Edinburgh at the top.

Where exactly would Diana feature in any of that 15 years after her death? In my opinion, it's apples and oranges and it's not helped by the fact that the public mood has changed dramatically just as it was when Diana married into the Royal Family. Anyone who thought she'd forever be glorified as part of the dynasty was always going to be disappointed I'm afraid. Monarchy is a thing of history but it depends on it's future and it's future can't be modelled around a dead woman - whether that be Diana or the Queen Mother who both influenced the Windsors in their own ways.
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  #1154  
Old 09-06-2012, 07:16 AM
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An excellent post BeatrixFan, well balanced, to answer the question, in her own way, Catherine will be as popular as Diana.
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  #1155  
Old 09-06-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Aliza View Post
Charlotte
When Diana was in her early twenties, any mall was full of clothes inspired by her choices and full of women copying her and making her style their own. I can't think of a single item of fashion Kate has personally popularized similar to Diana's pearl chokers, low heels, puffed sleeves and pie-crust collars (and that's just a partial list ) Even the copies of Kate's wedding dress have just sat on the shelf, whilst Diana's crumpled meringue set the style for well over a decade.
There's lots I disagree with in your post, but I simply wanted to highlight this part. You've really not seen Kate popularise any fashion? Honestly? Most of the girls my age devour the pictures of Kate in newspapers and magazines to see what she's wearing. On several occasions I've seen them buy the same or similar items to those Kate has worn; there's even a nickname for them - 'copykates'.

One example of her impact has been that she's made nude tights popular again. Until she started wearing them, they were only worn by grannies. She wore those pink jeans and since then I've seen countless women wearing really loud skinny jeans. We've seen a few high profile brides wear wedding dresses that bare more than a passing resemblance to Kate's.

Most fashionistas in the UK would vouch for the fact that she's popularised a more conservative, elegant look than the mini-dress and platform heels that the TOWIE girls have come to symbolise.

LK Bennett are expanding into the US, Rebecca Taylor is opening up in the UK, Reiss are expanding into the US, having been in pretty grave difficulty a few years ago Temperley is now expanding again too. All these brands credit Kate as the main reason that they're doing so well. Links of London are also benefitting from Kate's wearing their products:


Quote:
"She first wore our White Topaz Hope Egg Earrings - which we believe were a gift from Prince William - for the official engagement photo, and then wore them at several other events: from the races, to the day before the wedding," a spokesperson for Links of London told us. "After the wedding she wore another pair of our earrings The Effervescence Stiletto Earrings - she first wore these at the Ark Gala with a Jenny Packham dress - and then wore them again on her recent tour to Canada. When she wore the first pair, sales of the earrings doubled and we quickly sold out worldwide so we had to create international waiting lists. In New York and Japan in particular people really went crazy for them. When she wore the second pair of earrings, sales immediately spiked on our website and we constantly have to restock the website and the stock of these earrings just flies out. As we speak I have just asked the web team to transfer more stock of these earrings to the site because they never last long on the website!"
Kate Middleton Latest Fashion, Dress, Shopping Influence (Vogue.com UK)

I was 12 when Diana died and to be honest, apart from that utterly horrific wedding dress, none of her clothes really sticks out for me. I believe it tended to pretty much always be very high-end expensive stuff.

We can argue about whether Kate will be more 'popular' than Diana, but it's wrong to try and argue that Kate's had no influence on fashion.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:02 PM
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I don't think she has had any influence on fashion. She is wearing what everyone else is wearing. Sure, she has cast a glorious halo around some dead or dying shops, but I've not seen any trendsetting going on.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:11 PM
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Who of the royal princesses ARE trendsetters? Diana wore the clothes popular during the 80's ala Dallas. Her frilly collared blouses were quite common here in the states even before she was engaged. I think maybe she popularized the "black sheep" sweater.

Point being I don't see any of them as trend setters for the most part. She HAS brought back a more conservative, tasteful, elegant look in day time dressing and she always looks very elegant in evening wear. I do think Diana set a few trends with the way she chose to wear some of her jewelry but that is about it. Royal Princesses are just not into Vivian Westwood ... THANK HEAVENS!!!!! She "may" be "trendy" but she is downright spooky. I think she appeals to actresses who want to show off their individuality.
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  #1158  
Old 09-06-2012, 08:41 PM
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I don't think she has had any influence on fashion. She is wearing what everyone else is wearing. Sure, she has cast a glorious halo around some dead or dying shops, but I've not seen any trendsetting going on.
You are obviously so lucky that you are seeing what Catherine is wearing on 'everyone'. For me, all I seem to see is celebrities, wannabes and 'anyones' wearing trashy clothes, half naked attire and just complete and utter rubbish. Please let me know where I need to go so I can see all these people that are wearing classy and elegant attire as I'd much rather be there!!
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:11 PM
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You are obviously so lucky that you are seeing what Catherine is wearing on 'everyone'. For me, all I seem to see is celebrities, wannabes and 'anyones' wearing trashy clothes, half naked attire and just complete and utter rubbish. Please let me know where I need to go so I can see all these people that are wearing classy and elegant attire as I'd much rather be there!!
That's what I see too, even among people that are supposed to be 'professional'. I have nothing against wearing jeans if you're a teacher (I teach preschool and have kids with special needs in my room, so I'd much rather wear jeans than dress slacks), but I do have an issue with a teacher coming in and looking like a slob, dressed in a ratty track suit (and this wasn't a preschool teacher, but a secondary school math teacher). People have lost the sense of class and elegance (especially women), and if I could see more of the said women take after Catherine, I would be extremely happy, When I go outside pretty much all I see are people dressed as if they're constantly going to the beach, the nightclub, or to visit their pimp it's refreshing to see someone who can carry herself with natural elegance, poise and class, not to mention dress to match. However, as has been stated, Catherine is not a clothes horse, and doesn't go out of her way to be a 'fashion icon', though she may be just as popular as Diana was (or more, if the press continues to constantly bring attention to her attire) in this area.
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  #1160  
Old 09-06-2012, 09:35 PM
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Never will Kate Middleton be more popular the Diana. It's to hard to judge Kate Middleton right now since she hasn't made any real appearance with the press or run an organization I say 10 year from now they I will be able to judge
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