The Family and Background of the Duchess of Cambridge, the Middletons 1, Until 2022

[Countessmeout]

Yes, they went to Trinity. No evidence they ever did more then sit in a crowded dining hall or lecture hall together, is the point some are making.

 

[tonyferen]

Yes - there is unfortunately evidence that the two men were together for three years. The Express article points out that they were at Trinity from 1910 - 1913.

"In a remarkable coincidence Lieutenant Lupton attended Trinity College, Cambridge at the same time as Princess Diana's grandfather Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer, where both men studied the same subject.

After studying together between 1910 and 1913 the two men enrolled at the same time to play their part in the war effort."

Lionel Lupton actually did graduate in 1913 - I checked.

The two college mates would have been in the same dining hall - eating together morning, noon and night for 3 years.

And they did a subject together they were both enrolled in Bachelor of Arts.

We just have to accept that Kate's family were allowed to attend VERY expensive college/university with the POSH Spencers.

It's very sad. Cheerio

 

[Countessmeout]

Just because they ate in the same dining hall and took some classes doesn't mean they knew each other than in passing. I certainly went to an University the same size as their classes for my BA. While there maybe 30 English majors, I couldn't claim to even know half more than in passing. There is no evidence that these men remotely knew each other.

 

[tonyferen]

Lets look at the facts

You misunderstand the UK Express article.

It is not saying that they were great friends.

It is saying that they were at college together - which had well under 100 students in it at that time (1910-1913) - we have established that (read the earlier posts).

These two toffs were in a dining hall every day for 3 years morning, noon and night.

They most likely did sports together, music, balls etc etc etc

Also, as the paper states (and you can check up the Cambridge alumni website) they were taking a tutorial in the same subject.


When you enrolled in a subject at Cambridge - both during WW1 and today - you attend lectures AND tutorials AT THE COLLEGE (in this case the richest college - Trinity)

Tutorials at Cambridge before WW1 were of a small size and held in the tutors room THIS IS A FACT.

The two men knew each other. We must accept the facts.

These two fellows would have done chapel together too.

I was, like you, devastated to read this terrible information - it is in the Cambridge Times newspaper/website too.

I hate to think of Kate's family as associating with the Spencers in any way at all.

All the best
Ant.

 

[Curryong]

I don't think the media has ever published articles sneering at the ancestry and family of Michael Middleton, have they? There have been various news items over the years since Kate's engagement that have pointed to facets of the Middletons' middleclass past, and the general public have accepted it and not (in general) negatively commented on it. That would be the same with the Lupton connection. In other words, it's known that Mike Middleton's family were successful industrialists who led a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle.

It's been Carole Goldsmith's working class family background and her perceived social climbing that has drawn criticism, a sort of 'know your place and don't move upwards' view. I think, since the engagement, the tabloid media has concentrated more on stories of Carole (with the possible exception of Pippa) and various unfavourable reports of her brother Gary for example, inferring as clearly as they can, without breaking libel laws, that 'this family' (Carole's family) is 'as common as muck,' to use a working class English expression.

In other words, I don't think Lionel Lupton going to university with Albert Spencer would raise anybody's ire among the British public, but any stories of Carole's grandfather acting in an upperclass manner would.

In many ways the British media has played it both ways, with tales of Kate's coal mining ancestors to pacify readers who feel that the Royals are too remote, too posh, but also featuring stories of mill owners living country gentry lifestyles from Mike's side to placate readers who think the Goldsmiths were just too downmarket to be family to royals. (Remember James Whittaker's remarks before the engagement?)

 

[Countessmeout]

Some of James less than flattering comments. The Middletons were in good company, he took swipes at royals and commoners alike.

James Whitaker: Listen to his frank insight on Kate Middleton, Pippa Middleton, Prince William, Prince Charles and Princess Diana - Mirror Online

I honestly think it was knowing that no one really wants the Cinderella any more. The Cinderella looks like a gold digger now a days, a social climber out for a man for his money. But they didn't want her painted as a snobby socialite. So they show both sides. Her mother's working class roots, and her father's landed gentry (Lupton) and solicitor (Middleton) roots. And of course emphasizing the airline workers who built a huge company. Teamed with Kate having an education and some work history, was an attempt at a more modern middle class Cinderella.

 

[Rudolph]

As the French say 'tout le monde descend d'un roi et d'un pendu'

It applies to the Queen's family as much as it does to the Middletons, the Rhys-Jones, Chelsy Davy's family or Cressida's family.

 

[Lady Nimue]

The tabloids weren't trying to sell Kate has a simple girl, they were trying to shame Carole from being descendant of miners, being born or living in council house but yet not knowing her place in society by having the nerve to have a successful business. They never went after Michael side of the family.

Olive is Michael Middleton's side of the family. His side was business type people with some money. It's Carole's side that was the coal miners from Durham working class side. Both her sides of the family were lower income working class.

It's been Carole Goldsmith's working class family background and her perceived social climbing that has drawn criticism, a sort of 'know your place and don't move upwards' view. I think, since the engagement, the tabloid media has concentrated more on stories of Carole (with the possible exception of Pippa) and various unfavourable reports of her brother Gary for example, inferring as clearly as they can, without breaking libel laws, that 'this family' (Carole's family) is 'as common as muck,' to use a working class English expression.

Explains a lot. I have witnessed some really vicious posting about Carole.

 

[hel]

Explains a lot. I have witnessed some really vicious posting about Carole.

True that. The level of viciousness I regularly see about Catherine and her family tends to make me think better of them; the people who criticize them so crudely, meanly, and relentlessly undermine their own criticism by doing so.

 

[TLLK]

Explains a lot. I have witnessed some really vicious posting about Carole.

I've seen similar remarks regarding Queen Letizia's background.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

What is the opinion about who really is attackinf Carole? Is it the British media or is it everyday people? Is it upper class people who work in journalism?
Like every one else I see that Carole is the only one who is attacked and it has really given me a skewed view of class systems in GB. But I really am interested in knowing who exactly are the people who have a problem with Carole "not knowing her place".

 

[Rudolph]

It's inverse snobbery, plain and simple. The Middletons move freely with the upper classes. While at university, Pippa was roommates with Earl Percy and Lord Innes-Ker.

This is 2016, the traditional class system doesn't exist.

We must remember, 'posh' Cressida Bonas' father comes from a line of South Battersea butchers.

Carole is at Wimbledon today, enjoying life, while the haters stick pins in their Middleton dolls.

 

[HRHHermione]

How Carole Middleton was 'mastermind' behind daughter Pippa's engagement to James Matthews

If Carole Middleton was half as good at arranging outcomes and plotting as the tabloids seem to think she is, she'd be prime minister by now.



Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[hernameispekka]

If Carole Middleton was half as good at arranging outcomes and plotting as the tabloids seem to think she is, she'd be prime minister by now.



Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

Hahah, how very true. So pathetic. Not gonna warrant a click, that one! I mean, is it so hard to belive that 2 rich girls going to fancy schools would happen to meet and date rich guys hanging out with their rich friends? I mean... ofc they could have met someone totally different, but the odds that you get together with someone from similar circumstances who have mutual friends or interest etc is how it usually works. I mean, you cant get together with people you dont meet and hang out with.

 

[Osipi]

Over the years of watching and observing the Middleton family, their closeness and their success in their business and watching how their three children conduct themselves and what they do with their lives, the *last* thing I would be able to say is that they've used their children as pawns on a chessboard.

 

[Roslyn]

If Carole Middleton was half as good at arranging outcomes and plotting as the tabloids seem to think she is, she'd be prime minister by now.

Yes, I think that calling her a mastermind might be a bit of an exaggeration, but she has only had three people to focus on: her children, particularly her two daughters. She hasn't had to make and sell policies to solve the nation's unemployment problem, just create opportunities for her two daughters to be in the right place at the right time and provide them with the skills they needed to take advantage of the opportunities that presented themselves. Ultimately it was up to her girls to seal the deals though. If she was a real mastermind, the three children would be running multi-million dollar enterprises themselves and not just marrying well or making printed marshmallows.

 

[Dee Anna]

If Carole Middleton was half as good at arranging outcomes and plotting as the tabloids seem to think she is, she'd be prime minister by now.

Guessing this Exclusive stems back to the other mastermind plot in 2007 when she plotted to bring William and Kate back together at some family BBQ in Bucklebury or some such thing.

I'm not doubting the event did occur - but the fact that William was at it in the first place would suggest Kate and himself were working things out by themselves.

Carole gets a lot of bad press, even her own family have dissed her to the press! But masterminding her daughters marriages is a stretch too far..... accomodating them maybe!

 

[miche]

I wouldn't call a distant cousin that she has never met a family member. Nor "family sources" anything

 

[Dman]

The media gave Mrs. Middleton a bad rep many years ago. Now that Pippa is getting married, of course the media would come up with another story about how Carole was behind all this.

All Mr. and Mrs. Middleton did was provide well for their family, the rest was up to the kids. Destiny will take you down some very interesting paths.

 

[Winnie]

If Carole Middleton was half as good at arranging outcomes and plotting as the tabloids seem to think she is, she'd be prime minister by now.

Brilliant statement. You are so correct. Media just doesn't care for the Middletons as they really haven't put a bad foot forwards to embarrass the Queen which really upsets them. Any story that they yelled about {saying toilet at Palace} was proven to be a lie and that reporter fired when proven it was made up for fun. Actually Carole and husband just go along with their personal lives with a smile and could care less about the media. Good for them. They have more class than the ones writing about their every move. Plus the Middletons have made their own money properly.

 

[lady of hay]

I think a lot of it is what was once described to me as "Tall Poppy " syndrome. People who rise above everyone else are put down by those who have not risen that far. As Deman says, the Middleton's have worked hard, and provided all their children with a good education and the chances they may not have had otherwise.
Instead of people, and not anyone here, critcising them for what they have done, they should be thinking " Okay my daughter can't become Queen of England , but I can try to make sure her life is better than mine".

Too much of the "green - eyed " monster at times from the popular press !!!

Okay , rant over.

 

[Countessmeout]

I love when ever someone is critical they are jealous One doesn't need to be jealous cat ladies to think they are not good examples.

Michael and Carole what did they teach their kids???? Yes they got top educations, paid for by a family trust, but then??? Did they encourage them to get jobs? Continue education? Anything? No. They provided Kate a home and income for 8 years, when her 1 part time job lasted less than a year. Did they encourage her to volunteer, do more school, get a job? If they did, she didn't listen. Now Pippa has bounced between jobs, and lives in a parent provided flat while she plays socialite for charity.

I find it funny, aristocrats born into money expect their kids to work. I would think people who are self-made would want more for their kids.

I have no doubt if Carole put any importance on career, her daughters could likely have gone far.

I find it funny Bea gets criticized for leaving another job, and yet same people praise Pippa for the very same life.

 

[Princess of Durham]

There are a lot of aristocrats "born into money" that require absolutely nothing of their children. There are some very well known ones who do nothing but travel from glamorous place to place and loll about on yachts and go to expensive ski resorts in the winter. Not going to mention any names here but I think we can all name a few.

 

[Rudolph]

I find it funny, aristocrats born into money expect their kids to work. I would think people who are self-made would want more for their kids.

I have no doubt if Carole put any importance on career, her daughters could likely have gone far.

I find it funny Bea gets criticized for leaving another job, and yet same people praise Pippa for the very same life.

Many children of aristocrats don't work, have a look in Tatler some time. Pippa isn't hurting anyone, she doesn't live off the state.

You give a Bea a pass (along with all of Harry's exes) and choose to criticise Pippa and the Middleton at every turn.

Your prerogative, but what you're doing is no different from the people you call out for having a go at the Yorks.

 

[Dee Anna]

I wouldn't call a distant cousin that she has never met a family member. Nor "family sources" anything

In the article I saw the family member involved (cousin) wasn't distant or unknown and quite happy to include a photograph (Kate looked about 14 or 15) sitting with Carole and relatives on a couch.

 

[Dee Anna]

I wouldn't call a distant cousin that she has never met a family member. Nor "family sources" anything

It was a definite dig at Carole, she is the target, not Michael; in response to earlier post about Michael (or family) coming under the same fire as Carole (who apparently in some eyes married "up")

 

[Denville]

I think that Carole is seen as the chief offender in the "Trying to push the children into a higher social class" and I suspect it is true. I don't think she's TOO bad, but I'm not keen on the Middleton match as a whole..

 

[Osipi]

I think exactly the opposite. The class system in the UK is becoming less and less structured and the days of the bon ton and the hoi polloi are long gone. Its been proven time and time again that marriage for status and titles and keeping a bloodline pure doesn't work in modern times.

The Middletons are a well respected family that have provided a safe, secure and loving home and life for their children and, by example, have shown how a marriage born out of love, teamwork and family first works. They would want no less for their children should they be a future king or a garbage collector or day laborer.

 

[Rudolph]

I've always wondered, who are these guardians of the class system?

It's not the nobility, who have been marrying 'commoners' for generations.

Winston Churchill, son of Lord Randolph Churchill, grandson of the Duke of Marlborough, Churchill's mother was an American. Just one of dozens of examples.

The last time a princess married into the BRF was like 85 years ago. British royals marrying commoners has been the norm for years.

Look around Europe, we have Mary, Daniel, Maxima, et al all marrying into royalty.

Imo, anyone crowing about the class system is watching too much Downton Abbey.

 

[Dman]

I think that Carole is seen as the chief offender in the "Trying to push the children into a higher social class" and I suspect it is true. I don't think she's TOO bad, but I'm not keen on the Middleton match as a whole..

I don't think Carole is pushing her children into anything. Carole was a full time mom, who worked hard to provide for her kids. If anything, she has given them the love and support they need.

The media have a way of being snobs in their own right. The media spent years trying to match the future King with every eligible princess and heiress known to man. His father married an earls daughter, so they just knew his son would marry in his own class system. They had no clue the future King would go off to university and come home with a middle class girl. In their minds, that couldn't have been his doing, someone must've pushed her on him. That's where Carole comes in.

The media has given Carole the role of a madam.