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  #1901  
Old 05-09-2015, 06:08 PM
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The upper-classes and nobility have been marrying into the middle-class for years. The resentment against the Middletons comes from the people they 'left behind'.

Social mobility has been accepted by the nobility for a long time, its Carole's own middle-class peers that resent her success. For not knowing her place.
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  #1902  
Old 05-09-2015, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
Indeed, sadly Carole has been cast in a negative light for quite a while now, and I think it's easy for the media to just keep her as a punching bag.

If I were to look for any reason for it, I'd say it's just an attempt to tap into social class issues. The future king married someone from the middle class, which is bound to ruffle a few feathers and perhaps cause some jealousy (either from upper-class folks, who might think Kate isn't from the right background, or from other middle-class people, who might be jealous of the Middletons family's social mobility). And, rather than casting Kate in a bad light, the place the "blame" on Carole for intentionally setting up Kate to be in a position where she could meet and marry William. It's a typical easy, lazy caricature for the media to fall back on, especially as some people like a bit of negativity. (And, yes, I realize I'm making a lot of generalizations, but only because I think that's exactly what the media is doing. I have nothing against Carole. Frankly, I really don't know much about her other than the media's spin).
I just imagine being a member of the Middleton family and having to put up with the invented press. Imagine being her brother whose beard and dog walking invite speculation (and how very uninteresting beards and dog-walking a are). Imagine being her sister who pays a huge price for her suddenly famous bum She herself wrote about how surreal that was. And I think she is smart enough to know that people who love you for your bum will hate you for everything else.

I think post wedding Carole and Mike have worked very hard to NOT be the story. I think they have been very classy. In fact, Party Pieces is not getting much press at all.
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  #1903  
Old 05-09-2015, 06:15 PM
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According to an article I read I think it was in Hello Canada It was that kate mom is busy moving in and running the whole place like she is the queen mom Kate dad isn't very comfortable and want carole to leave the kids alone and let thme get on with there life with no help from her It sounds from the article that William and kate are afraid to tell her off .
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  #1904  
Old 05-09-2015, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The upper-classes and nobility have been marrying into the middle-class for years. The resentment against the Middletons comes from the people they 'left behind'.

Social mobility has been accepted by the nobility for a long time, its Carole's own middle-class peers that resent her success. For not knowing her place.
The Middleton's good fortune is what us Americans call The American Dream!
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  #1905  
Old 05-09-2015, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by janjan View Post
According to an article I read I think it was in Hello Canada It was that kate mom is busy moving in and running the whole place like she is the queen mom Kate dad isn't very comfortable and want carole to leave the kids alone and let thme get on with there life with no help from her It sounds from the article that William and kate are afraid to tell her off .
I wouldn't believe whatever is coming out of the gossip mags. If Carole was overstepping the mark, Kate and William would tell her so. They aren't young impressionable teenagers, they are in their 30's. The only reason why the mags are making up these stories is because the Middleton's are protecting their own. They provide William and Kate with support, stability and love.

Also, anyone believing Carole orchestrated Kate to marry William needs their head read!
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  #1906  
Old 05-09-2015, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The Middleton's good fortune is what us Americans call The American Dream!
Thats one of the reasons I don't like how Carole is treated And I wonder if its just a culture clash on my part. In America the Middleton's would be admired and someone to emulate; but in England there appears to be this idea that she doesn't know her place and if you are born middle class you stay there. I am not trying to criticize England and I don't know if this is thr majority or a very vocal minority who portrays this image. All I see is a very beautiful hard working woman with a good marriage and 3 well adjusted kids who all seem to love her.
On top of how Carole is painted, in documentaries and specials on Kate they always talk about her maternal ancestry and rarely discuss her paternal ancestry, continuously wanting to paint her as some working class girl descended from coal miners and ignoring she is also descended from lawyers and businessmen.
I have no idea if it's aristocrats who hate the Middleton's or fellow middle class folk like the rest of us. There are not many documentaries or books I can find on Mette Marit, Mary, Daniel or even Queen Silvia....so I don't know if other middle class royal partners have been treated the same way as Kate and her family.
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  #1907  
Old 05-09-2015, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Thats one of the reasons I don't like how Carole is treated And I wonder if its just a culture clash on my part. In America the Middleton's would be admired and someone to emulate; but in England there appears to be this idea that she doesn't know her place and if you are born middle class you stay there. I am not trying to criticize England and I don't know if this is thr majority or a very vocal minority who portrays this image. All I see is a very beautiful hard working woman with a good marriage and 3 well adjusted kids who all seem to love her.
On top of how Carole is painted, in documentaries and specials on Kate they always talk about her maternal ancestry and rarely discuss her paternal ancestry, continuously wanting to paint her as some working class girl descended from coal miners and ignoring she is also descended from lawyers and businessmen.
I have no idea if it's aristocrats who hate the Middleton's or fellow middle class folk like the rest of us. There are not many documentaries or books I can find on Mette Marit, Mary, Daniel or even Queen Silvia....so I don't know if other middle class royal partners have been treated the same way as Kate and her family.
Yes, social class and particularly social class mobility are certainly, on the whole, perceived differently in the UK than in the US (though, in both countries, it's an ever-evolving issue and is perceived differently by different people). I will say, though, that I think the media really stokes a lot of the class issues in the UK, because when I lived there, it wasn't really something that came up that often among people I actually knew (but I was at university, so maybe it just wasn't at the forefront of people's minds). It's when I'm reading articles in the press that I most note the way class is handled differently in the UK. That's just my experience, though.
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  #1908  
Old 05-09-2015, 08:34 PM
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My daughter did her "junior year abroad" when she was in University in the late 80s. She did it at an unnamed English University. At that time she was very much struck by the class issues. They were very much an issue among the students that she knew at that time. I think the newspapers have continued to use the class issues to sell papers. There will always be people who are not as successful as others and papers like the Daily Fail seem to cultivate the negative feelings that can go along with that. I also think historically political parties in the UK have played up the issue to their own advantage. Pure and simple it sells papers to keep people stirred up and also gets some politicians votes.

I recall early on that Carole Middleton was quoted (supposedly) as saying that she realized that she was the "weak link." I recall feeling so very sorry that she felt that way.
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  #1909  
Old 05-09-2015, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
My daughter did her "junior year abroad" when she was in University in the late 80s. She did it at an unnamed English University. At that time she was very much struck by the class issues. They were very much an issue among the students that she knew at that time. I think the newspapers have continued to use the class issues to sell papers. There will always be people who are not as successful as others and papers like the Daily Fail seem to cultivate the negative feelings that can go along with that. I also think historically political parties in the UK have played up the issue to their own advantage. Pure and simple it sells papers to keep people stirred up and also gets some politicians votes.

I recall early on that Carole Middleton was quoted (supposedly) as saying that she realized that she was the "weak link." I recall feeling so very sorry that she felt that way.
What you say makes a lot of sense to me. My time spent living in the UK was within the past few years and, as I said, class issues didn't really come up (which was interesting, because the student body at the English university I attended was much more socio-economically diverse than the university I attended in the US). However, I'm certainly under the impression that that's been something that's evolving in the UK, because there seems to be more acceptance of upward mobility now than there used to be. But yes, definitely I think the papers try to keep things divisive, and politics plays a role in that too (in large part because many of the UK papers - and especially the tabloids, which have the highest circulation among papers in Britain - are extremely, unabashedly partisan.) I don't find it totally surprising that class gets discussed in terms of the royals; in fact, that's where I'd expect to hear it the most. But certainly it's interesting to see how it manifests itself in politics, etc., and for me that's when I've noticed cultural divisions the most.
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  #1910  
Old 05-15-2015, 10:28 PM
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Two bi-monthly upmarket magazines - with a combined circulation of around two hundred thousand - will now be having contributions from Mrs Middleton.

Luxury magazines "Baby London" and "Little London" will feature articles written, without a fee, by Carole, who will be giving party-planning tips.

The first article, about having an outdoor party, has already been published and is in the current issue of "Little London".
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  #1911  
Old 05-15-2015, 11:58 PM
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So Carole has decided to offer her expertise in two magazines. Why? It wouldn't have anything to do with indirectly promoting Party Pieces, would it? This leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth, quite frankly, and I don't care whether she's being paid or not.
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  #1912  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:29 AM
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I don't see the harm with her writing articles about party planning. It is her business. Plus, why shouldn't she be allowed to promote Party Pieces?
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  #1913  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
So Carole has decided to offer her expertise in two magazines. Why? It wouldn't have anything to do with indirectly promoting Party Pieces, would it? This leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth, quite frankly, and I don't care whether she's being paid or not.

Why? She owns a business and has been pretty careful about how she promotes it. Should she be barred from the kind of legal business promotion that others do simply because of who her daughter married?

I guarantee the articles will be incredibly innocuous.


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  #1914  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:46 AM
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Because pushing family commercial interests (selling party equipment etc) reflects on the Cambridges. It would be a bit like Diana's father Earl Spencer writing regular columns in a popular travel magazine about Althorp and its attractions, in an effort to bring in tourist dollars in the 1980's. I can just imagine Charles's reaction.
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  #1915  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Because pushing family commercial interests (selling party equipment etc) reflects on the Cambridges. It would be a bit like Diana's father Earl Spencer writing regular columns in a popular travel magazine about Althorp and its attractions, in an effort to bring in tourist dollars. I can just imagine Charles's reaction.
Um, except that Earl Spencer was a man of massive inherited wealth, not the proprietor of a successful commercial business interest.

This is how they make their living. It's their family business. Should they let their business fade away and not market it or promote it, simply because their daughter married into the royal family? What's their alternative?

There's no winning there. If they stopped running their business and depended on the royal family to support them, the press would be brutal.

What do you suggest these people do to support themselves financially that offends no one?
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  #1916  
Old 05-16-2015, 12:56 AM
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The Middletons have come in for some rough and unfair treatment over the last few years and I do think a lot of it is class related, (as well as more than a little plain old envy).

A member of the last generation of royal in laws stood up and publicly insulted his nephews' family AT THEIR MOTHER'S FUNERAL! So I guess the argument could be made there was nowhere to go but up, but IMO The Queen probably thanks god every day her grandson married into a stable family that worked hard and produced well brought up, non histrionic children. Even Uncle Gary must seem pretty harmless!
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  #1917  
Old 05-16-2015, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Because pushing family commercial interests (selling party equipment etc) reflects on the Cambridges. It would be a bit like Diana's father Earl Spencer writing regular columns in a popular travel magazine about Althorp and its attractions, in an effort to bring in tourist dollars in the 1980's. I can just imagine Charles's reaction.
I doubt Prince Charles will care. After all, he's selling royal baby items (cups and plates) on the Highgrove website. Not to mention, quite a few of his relatives have written books, or appeared on tv to promote their businesses. So taking the Middletons to task would be a bit hypocritical of him.
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  #1918  
Old 05-16-2015, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
The Middletons have come in for some rough and unfair treatment over the last few years and I do think a lot of it is class related, (as well as more than a little plain old envy).

A member of the last generation of royal in laws stood up and publicly insulted his nephews' family AT THEIR MOTHER'S FUNERAL! So I guess the argument could be made there was nowhere to go but up, but IMO The Queen probably thanks god every day her grandson married into a stable family that worked hard and produced well brought up, non histrionic children. Even Uncle Gary must seem pretty harmless!
Completely... especially when you factor in Barbara Cartland and Raine Spencer. There have long been people around the royal family with far more questionable taste than the Middletons, who have been incredibly discreet and have managed to avoid putting a foot wrong. They can't win over everyone- but they don't seem to need to. They stay discreet, they run their business, and they enjoy their family.
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  #1919  
Old 05-16-2015, 01:07 AM
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Writing articles in two magazines is hardly being discreet!

Plus, there are a lot of peers who inherited massive wealth who still promote their stately homes. Earl Spencer didn't.
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  #1920  
Old 05-16-2015, 01:16 AM
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Writing articles in two magazines is hardly being discreet!

Plus, there are a lot of peers who inherited massive wealth who still promote their stately homes. Earl Spencer didn't.
Earl Spencer didn't have to! He was born into a life of massive inherited wealth and had little to no obligation to support himself and his family- it was taken care of for him. Even still, he and his second wife controversially sold off a lot of family treasures to fund a restoration of Althorp that was not well received. There was bad press about it at the time, you can read about it. (And the current Earl has done a LOT of promotion based on his late sister.)

Carole's writing topical articles about her business for relevant publications. She's not sharing royal family gossip. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, and it's coming off as fairly classist.
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