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  #441  
Old 09-29-2009, 04:31 PM
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All posts regarding Kate Middleton's fashion choices should be posted http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...a-7409-18.html .

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  #442  
Old 09-29-2009, 04:31 PM
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You all are very kind with this woman (Carole Middleton) what you dont are with other people.

For my taste this woman with a resemblence to Angelica Huston in roles as witches looks terrible disgusting and ridiculous. Yes, she has good legs, but came nearly naked to this gala! I like Kate very much but her mother really looks like a pushy mum and social climber to me! My opinion, I don't need to discuss it. I always thought britain is the land of good taste, but such a lady as possible mother in law to a king drives me mad.
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  #443  
Old 09-29-2009, 04:46 PM
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Good point! I get more and more under the impression that Kate could be right for William, I mean after so many years there must be something what really unites them. But I asked myself too - is William right for King?

I watched this documentary about Wills and Kate a few weeks ago and "insiders" said, that Kate was only sent to Marlborough to make lots of new social contacts and to find an adaquate guy... I don't know.
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  #444  
Old 09-29-2009, 04:58 PM
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However I found it great to see Kate, she is a beautiful! I really think William and she will marry some day!
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  #445  
Old 09-29-2009, 05:00 PM
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Westminster, you don't think the Spencers were social climbers?? They made an industry out of sucking up to the Windsors for employment and advantages of all sorts.
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  #446  
Old 09-29-2009, 06:26 PM
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iowabelle. Tricky, but at least Diana's father was an Earl.
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  #447  
Old 09-29-2009, 06:55 PM
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So it's okay for an earl (and a countess) to be a social climber but not the common folk?

Pardon me for sounding antagonistic, don't mean to be, but I've become rather intrigued with the idea of class lately. (I discovered this when I told someone I didn't want a Kennedy family member to succeed Senator Kennedy... despite being interested in royals, I seem to have grown a distaste for inherited privilege lately, and I just don't know how to draw the line.)
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  #448  
Old 09-29-2009, 07:33 PM
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I would agree with you Iowabelle, I always had a distaste for inherited privilege (I know, inconsistent for a royal watcher). But what Westwister possible wanted to point out, is part of the silly rules of the old world, you know. People like the Middletons will be called more often parvenu, social climber or whatever names they will give it, than people with an aristocratic background. Its my supposition and how I've seen it. There are the social castes, people say that they are still very "popular" in England. As I don't live in this country I can't speak for it, but actually here in Germany they are still felt.
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  #449  
Old 09-29-2009, 07:41 PM
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I was talking to one of my friends about my inconsistent philosophies. Of course, being Americans we're going to have a prejudice toward self-achievement (hence, I can applaud the Middletons for accumulating wealth, running a business, etc.) But my friend lacks my interest in royals. He blames my year-long sojourn in Canada when I was 5-6 years old. And he finds it amusing that I'm pro-royalty... so long as they live in some other country. (Sort of like the line from Fiddler on the Roof... May the Lord bless and keep the Czar.... far away from us!)
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  #450  
Old 09-30-2009, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post

Misunderstanding. By Middletons being social climbers I meant the parents, more the wife than the husband.
How are the parents or the wife demonstrating themselves to be social climbers? They / she is a successful entrepreneur, and her wealth allows her access to all sorts of events / venues that she may not otherwise have. If that is social climbing, I am all for it. Why should she not enjoy the benefits of what she has earned?


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But these days anything can happen as we have seen in other places, but for some reason I have always felt that the BRF would not take an unequal marriage as complacently as some royal families have.
When was the last time the royal family had a not "unequal marriage"? Diana, Sarah, Sophie, Mark, Tim, Tony A-J, Philip, the QM,..... Mary of Teck?
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  #451  
Old 09-30-2009, 05:01 AM
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How are the parents or the wife demonstrating themselves to be social climbers? They / she is a successful entrepreneur, and her wealth allows her access to all sorts of events / venues that she may not otherwise have. If that is social climbing, I am all for it. Why should she not enjoy the benefits of what she has earned?




When was the last time the royal family had a not "unequal marriage"? Diana, Sarah, Sophie, Mark, Tim, Tony A-J, Philip, the QM,..... Mary of Teck?

Elizabeth and Philip would certainly be regarded as an equal marriage surely - he was about 4th or 5th in line to the Greek throne in his own right at the time of his marriage, was the grandson of a king and that king was the brother of Elizabeth's own great-grandmother.

To, as I am sure some will argue, that the Mountbatten line makes it unequal well then the Queen's own antecedents also include the line from British aristocracy to equal out the Mountbatten line.
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  #452  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:07 AM
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When was the last time the royal family had a not "unequal marriage"? Diana, Sarah, Sophie, Mark, Tim, Tony A-J, Philip, the QM,..... Mary of Teck?
Sarah, Sophie, Philip, the Queen mother and Mary of Teck were all from the aristocracy or descended from them and royalty. I won´t talk about Mark and Tim because I just don´t know. Tony Armstrong Jones? No, I dont know about him´, but from what I have read, just because Kate´s mother sells party products on the internet does not change her family background.
Has anyone actually heard her talk? Also has any mention been made of the Middleton senior´s social circle? Just interested that is all.
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  #453  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:25 AM
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I don't think you can compare the backgrounds of Sarah, Sophie and Carole Middleton with the Phillip, Queen Mother and Mary of Teck. Mary of Teck and Phillip were royal prior to their marriages.

Sarah and the Queen Mother were/are descended from members of the aristrocracy. (the QM more than Sarah).

Sophie and Carole Middleton are from the same social beginnings.
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  #454  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:31 AM
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Sophie and Carole Middleton are from the same social beginnings.
Sorry Zonk but you are absolutely wrong. Sophie is a distant cousin of her husband, Sarah, Diana etc etc.
Carole is absolutely not, she is from a coal mining family, and there is no shame in that, hardworking people doing what I consider the worst and most dangerous job in the world but aristocracy and royalty - no way.
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  #455  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:46 AM
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Well, I need to check out the Sophie forum because Wikipedia (which I acknowledge is not a reliable site) does not give Sophie's beginnings.

I am fully aware that both Sarah and Diana are/were descended from the wrong side of the blanket.

But if we are going to do uneven comparisons, and we are talking about perceived social climbers we can certainly talk about Mary of Tech and Lord Louis Mountbatten, who definitely saw the advantages of their daughter/nephew dating and then marrying into the royal family.

Carole Middleton does appear to have some issues per se and you can definitely tell that she is not from a certain class but I would hardly call her a social climber. As most have mentioned, she and her husband have earned their money the old fashioned way...they earned it. Now we can all denigrate Party pieces if we want...but it has certainly been a good and profitable business that it enabled them to send each of their children to good schools, provide them with a nice home and great vacations. Anyone can become a millionaire if you have a good idea and market it. Look at the people who created white out and post-its!
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  #456  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:59 AM
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Here you are:-

GeneAll.net - Edward, Earl of Wessex

The red dots next to both Prince Edward´s and Sophies names signifies that they are both descended from King William the Conqueror 1066.

Both Louis Mountbatten and Mary of Teck were from royalty but unfortunately impoverished, so naturally it was an advantage to marry well and have money, but they were not as far as bloodline is concerned (remember Kate´s uncle Gary´s words?) unequal.
These days money seems to be the key to everything but it cannot buy a royal or aristocratic background, not an authentic one at least.
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  #457  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:12 AM
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Thanks Wisteria! I will check it out.

So you can be royal, impoverished but if you want to better your chances by marrying up its okay? But not okay for those who are hard working? A bit of double standard isn't it?

And not to get too off topic, but all those members of the aristcracy who in the early part of the 20th century had the bloodlines, the stately homes and not the money, so they married the new nouvea riche American and Spanish girls? But the new money is looked down on....still a double standard.

Still, I am not sure if the question has been answered on what definitely makes Carole Middleton a social climber?

Let's face it...it would be nice if William married a girl from the right side of the social scene but then what the Daily Mail do?!
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  #458  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:46 AM
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Sorry Zonk but you are absolutely wrong. Sophie is a distant cousin of her husband, Sarah, Diana etc etc.
Carole is absolutely not, she is from a coal mining family, and there is no shame in that, hardworking people doing what I consider the worst and most dangerous job in the world but aristocracy and royalty - no way.
I think this depends on what you mean by social beginnings (as opposed to genealogical ones). The fact that one or another commoner marrying into the royal family descended from a king several hundred years ago is a bit irrelevant if the family itself has been in the lower middle class for the last few generations. I'm sure there are descendants of William the Conqueror and even Charles II living working-class lives at the moment, and without any of the advantages that Kate Middleton has had from her family's money. I mean, really, would people be holding back from the social-climber label if it was found that Mrs Middleton was descended from Alfred the Great or something? These royal connections are so far-distant as to be meaningless in the 21st century. In the 1970s, Diana was considered a suitable bride for Charles because (among other things) her father was an earl, not because she descended from Charles II. Sarah also descended from Charles II, and she wouldn't have been considered suitable. Camilla was solidly in the upper classes (albeit not an aristocrat), and she also wasn't considered suitable, for much the same reasons that Sarah wouldn't have been. Sophie's immediate family was also self-made and middle-class - and I believe her father gave himself that double-barrelled surname because it was more impressive, which strikes me as the sort of thing a social climber would do - and I doubt that some long-ago connection to an ancient monarch would have made any difference.
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  #459  
Old 09-30-2009, 11:05 AM
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and I doubt that some long-ago connection to an ancient monarch would have made any difference.
Well Kate hasn´t even got that.
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  #460  
Old 09-30-2009, 11:29 AM
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These royal connections are so far-distant as to be meaningless in the 21st century.
I quite agree, they mean nothing in this day and age.


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Sophie's immediate family was also self-made and middle-class - and I believe her father gave himself that double-barrelled surname because it was more impressive, which strikes me as the sort of thing a social climber would do - and I doubt that some long-ago connection to an ancient monarch would have made any difference.
Certainly sounds like something a social climber might do, but Sophie herself does not seem the type like that. I agree with some earlier posts that Mary of Teck and Lord Louis Mountbatten were extrem social climbers, just because they had a title doesn't make it any excuse.


I personally do not believe Carole Middleton is a social climber, if what she has done over the years has got her associated with a certain class of people thats not her fault, good on her I say.
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