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  #2481  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:32 AM
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How sad is it that all three brothers were killed in the war, like many families I assume. What a senseless waste
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  #2482  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:39 AM
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"Both her sides (Mum and Dad) of the (Kate's) family were lower income working class".




This is what "Queen Camilla" told me this morning.


This is just NOT TRUE.


I almost give up. Thank God the other commentators are more realistic. Can I ask also WHY "Skippyboo" started up a thread doubting that Mike Middleton's grt. uncle would NOT know Princess Diana's grandad at Cambridge - in the same college. Of course these 2 posh young men would know each other.


They joined up together!

The article states that the Lupton fellow "drove around Cambridge in a Rolls Royce".
as the journalist says, they were arisocrats. We must accept this.
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  #2483  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:53 AM
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The Duchess of Cambridge: Family, Wealth and Background

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Olive is Michael Middleton's side of the family. His side was business type people with some money. It's Carole's side that was the coal miners from Durham working class side. Both her sides of the family were lower income working class.


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That's my earlier post since I am being slandered. Both sides of her family being lower income working class is referring to Carole Middleton. Not Kate.

I didn't even mention anything whether Lionel Lupton knew Albert Spencer.


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  #2484  
Old 07-03-2016, 11:08 AM
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A college of 300 students (Trinity) within a bigger University of thousands (Cambridge), how are you so sure that they knew each other?
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  #2485  
Old 07-03-2016, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyferen View Post
It is great to have these chats again.

I recall now that some people on this site seem to be determined to categorize the Middleton family as "normal and just-like-us". ...like the early UK Daily Mail reports described them.

We have discovered in more recent years that Michael Middleton's family are EXACTLY what the UK Telegraph and UK Daily Express have revealed them to be. wealthy snobs with generations that went to Trinity College, magnificent country estates and MONEY.

Kate's great great uncle - the brother of Olive Middleton of course! - was even a chum with Princess Diana's grandad. Read about it on the UK Daily express web-site this morning!

In short, I agree even MORE with reference in the October 2013 edition of Majesty magazine (yes I have a copy!!) - that Olive Middleton's family were "landed Gentry" and that she was an "heiress" as Joe described her.

I will not be arguing with Jo Little - the editor of Majesty either - nor the other more truthful broadsheet editors. Cheers again
So what is your point? You seem to be as bad about Michael Middleton as the DM is about Carole. Suck it up buttercup
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  #2486  
Old 07-03-2016, 01:16 PM
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Y'know, all this sins of the father and pedigree debates which should really take place on websites that have extensive debates, papers and proof of the bloodlines of dogs makes me wonder just what would have happened should Kate's lineage be like mine is and started with her as she would have been adopted by the Middletons with her birth records sealed for all eternity?

The Middleton family, in the here and the now, really haven't put one foot wrong since they've come to the attention of the public by having a daughter that met, married and are now grandparents, aunts and uncle of the heir and the spare to the royal throne of the UK.

Sometimes I think the tabloids and people just can't get through life without finding something wrong about someone else. Go figure.
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  #2487  
Old 07-03-2016, 01:24 PM
hel hel is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miche View Post
A college of 300 students (Trinity) within a bigger University of thousands (Cambridge), how are you so sure that they knew each other?
Miche, could I ask (because I've been looking for the numbers and can't find them) where the figure of 300 students at Trinity in 1910 comes from? It's so frustrating when one's Google-fu fails one!
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  #2488  
Old 07-03-2016, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hel View Post
Miche, could I ask (because I've been looking for the numbers and can't find them) where the figure of 300 students at Trinity in 1910 comes from? It's so frustrating when one's Google-fu fails one!
I'm sorry I'm using today's number.

This cambridge site said there were 1,191 students at Cambridge in 1910
https://www.cam.ac.uk/about-the-univ...ieth-centuries
from the same site (University of Cambridge)
Quote:
In the First World War (1914-19), 13,878 members of the University served and 2,470 were killed.
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  #2489  
Old 07-03-2016, 04:17 PM
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The Duchess of Cambridge: Family, Wealth and Background

The 13K would have been more than just students. Almost every able body man from their late teens to their early 40s could volunteer or later be drafted. From Claudia Joseph's book Lionel Lupton was in the Royal Field Artillery and Albert Spencer in the Life Guards per Wikipedia. They didn't join the same regiment together.


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  #2490  
Old 07-03-2016, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyferen View Post
"Both her sides (Mum and Dad) of the (Kate's) family were lower income working class".

This is what "Queen Camilla" told me this morning.
When and where?
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  #2491  
Old 07-03-2016, 04:45 PM
hel hel is online now
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Thank you very much, miche. Those numbers, to me, tend to support the idea that they knew each other.

With 1191 students across Cambridge, one can probably estimate that there were probably between 60 and 110 at Trinity proper (right now, Trinity has 5 or 6% of the undergrad population, but there were 8 fewer colleges then, so it may have had a higher proportion, but probably not more than 10%).

Those students would have been split across 3 or 4 years, giving an entering class size of 20 at the minimum to 37 at the maximum.


Two people who entered the college in the same year could hardly avoid knowing each other, given that the colleges provide accommodation and a dining hall.

Edited to add:
And my math is totally off since when I looked, it's actually 1191 matriculating students. So it would actually be between 60 and 110 students entering each year (5-10% of the 1191) with no further division by class size.

I suppose it's possible to have no contact with one person amongst 110 whom one lives in the same building with, but it frankly seems unlikely. While there's no definitive evidence that they knew each other, I'd be very surprised indeed if they didn't. There are about the same number of grade 1 students at my child's school, spread across 6 classrooms, and she has a pretty good handle on who most of them are after a single year.
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  #2492  
Old 07-03-2016, 05:02 PM
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Those are the number for the University as a whole, out of 1,191 students, it would be a much smaller number at Trinity college. So it is very possible that they knew each other using the 1910 numbers.
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  #2493  
Old 07-03-2016, 05:06 PM
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The Express article says they even studied the same subject. I have to agree, it would be surprising if they didn't know each other.

The Luptons had sufficient social status and money at the time to easily move within the same circles as Albert Spencer
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  #2494  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:31 PM
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Michael Middleton in no way comes from aristocracy, money yes, aristocracy no. And his money connections were never hidden. It is a well known fact Kate's education was paid for through a family trust on her father's side. It was how her parents could send their kids to expensive boarding schools before their company took off.

his 'artistocratic connections', none he is actually descended from:

Baroness Airedale: William Lupton III had several children. His son Frances III was Olive's grandfather, she was the daughter of his eldest son. Frances' brother Damton fathered Kate Lupton (a first cousin of Olive's dad). Kate married Baron von Schunck, and their daughter married Baron Airedale.

Sir Charles Lupton: was a knight, he receive the OBE. He certainly wasn't an aristocrat. Charles was Olive's Uncle, her father Frances' younger brother (2 of the five sons of Frances Lupton III).

Lady Bullock: Lady Bullock is of a similar relation as Baroness Airedale. Besides Frances and Damton (Olive and Baroness Airedale's grandfathers), William had a third son Joseph. Joseph's son Henry was a cloth merchant and had five children, among them Geoffrey Lupton, a leading figure in the arts and crafts movement. Lady Bullock was born Barbara Lupton, Henry's daughter. Her husband was Sir Christopher Bullock, a civil servant, but a member of the powerful Bullock family. He had some aristocratic blood in the female line. His maternal grandmother was the daughter of the 5th Earl of Orkney. He was a knight commander of the order of bath, and a commander of the order of the british empire, hence his title.

Olive Lupton's father established a trust for his descendents. One of those was Peter Middleton, an Oxford educate pilot, and Michael's father. The Middleton side (Olive marrying Richard Noel Middleton) were solicitors for generations. Michael's niece Lucy is a solicitor.
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  #2495  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:03 PM
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Here's confirmation that he attended Trinity.

THE WAR LIST OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE 19141918
Quote:
It was felt that, as an official record of the war services of Cambridge men, this list ought to include only those who were Cambridge men at the time of their war service.
TRINITY COLLEGE 427
LUND,H. Capt., R.A.M.C. (2nd W. Gen. Hospital, T.F.) 1878
LUPTON, A. C. Capt., Yorkshire Hussars and Remount 1893 Service
LUPTON, B. C. Capt., D. of Wellington's (W. Riding 1913 Regt., T.F.) (W2.) M.C.andBar
*LUPTON, F. A. Major, W. Yorks. Regt.(T.F.) 1904 Killed in action 19 Feb. 1917
LUPTON, H. R. Capt., W. Yorks. Regt.; attd. North- 1912 umberland Fus. (W 4.) M.C. M.
*LUPTON, L. M. Lieut., R.F.A.(T.F.) (W.) M 2. 1910 Killed in action 1 6 July 1916
*LUPTON, M. Capt., W. Yorks. Regt. 1906 Killed in action 19 June 1915
LUPTON, N. D. Major, W. Yorks. Regt.(T.F.) and 1894 London Regt. (Rifles); Major, Spec. List (Cmdt., Reception Camp)

But the Lupton/Spencer link is still missing
and this book seems
to dispel that notion that they joined together

There are Spencer's listed, including at Trinity College but no Albert Spencer.

The book can be found online in various forms including text and through subscription from the University's website or previewed through google book.
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  #2496  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:10 PM
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But the link that you posted from Peerage about Albert says that he graduated from Trinity College.
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  #2497  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:43 PM
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Yes, they went to Trinity. No evidence they ever did more then sit in a crowded dining hall or lecture hall together, is the point some are making.
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  #2498  
Old 07-04-2016, 10:59 PM
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Yes - there is unfortunately evidence that the two men were together for three years. The Express article points out that they were at Trinity from 1910 - 1913.

"In a remarkable coincidence Lieutenant Lupton attended Trinity College, Cambridge at the same time as Princess Diana's grandfather Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer, where both men studied the same subject.

After studying together between 1910 and 1913 the two men enrolled at the same time to play their part in the war effort."

Lionel Lupton actually did graduate in 1913 - I checked.

The two college mates would have been in the same dining hall - eating together morning, noon and night for 3 years.

And they did a subject together they were both enrolled in Bachelor of Arts.

We just have to accept that Kate's family were allowed to attend VERY expensive college/university with the POSH Spencers.

It's very sad. Cheerio
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  #2499  
Old 07-04-2016, 11:07 PM
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Just because they ate in the same dining hall and took some classes doesn't mean they knew each other than in passing. I certainly went to an University the same size as their classes for my BA. While there maybe 30 English majors, I couldn't claim to even know half more than in passing. There is no evidence that these men remotely knew each other.
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  #2500  
Old 07-04-2016, 11:39 PM
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Lets look at the facts

You misunderstand the UK Express article.

It is not saying that they were great friends.

It is saying that they were at college together - which had well under 100 students in it at that time (1910-1913) - we have established that (read the earlier posts).

These two toffs were in a dining hall every day for 3 years morning, noon and night.

They most likely did sports together, music, balls etc etc etc

Also, as the paper states (and you can check up the Cambridge alumni website) they were taking a tutorial in the same subject.


When you enrolled in a subject at Cambridge - both during WW1 and today - you attend lectures AND tutorials AT THE COLLEGE (in this case the richest college - Trinity)

Tutorials at Cambridge before WW1 were of a small size and held in the tutors room THIS IS A FACT.

The two men knew each other. We must accept the facts.

These two fellows would have done chapel together too.

I was, like you, devastated to read this terrible information - it is in the Cambridge Times newspaper/website too.

I hate to think of Kate's family as associating with the Spencers in any way at all.

All the best
Ant.
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