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  #2461  
Old 07-01-2016, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I guess the BBC mentioned Kate's WWI family connections but didn't elaborate on it. Michael Middleton's paternal grandmother Olive Lupton's brother Lionel was killed at Somme on July 16, 1916. Another brother Maurice was killed April 1915 in France and her last brother Fran was killed in action in 1917. So she lost all her brothers. That's just one side of family tree. Her husband Noel Middleton - Mike's granddad survived the Great War.


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Yes, I heard this being highlighted during the coverage.
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  #2462  
Old 07-01-2016, 06:59 PM
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THE Duchess of Cambridge's great, great uncle was a Lieutenant who died at the Battle of the Somme after signing up for service alongside Princess Diana's grandfather, Express.co.uk can reveal today.

The Duchess of Cambridge described herself as "emotional" as she visited a memorial to the 480,000 British soldiers who lost their lives in the bloody battle, including her hero relative Lionel Martineau Lupton.

In a remarkable coincidence Lieutenant Lupton attended Trinity College, Cambridge at the same time as Princess Diana's grandfather Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer, where both men studied the same subject.

After studying together in 1910 the two men enrolled at the same time to play their part in the war effort.

But whilst Lieutenant Lupton tragically died aged just 24 at the Somme, Spencer survived the conflict and lived until 1976.
Read more: Kate Middleton's heroic great, great uncle died at the Somme | Royal | News | Daily Express
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  #2463  
Old 07-01-2016, 09:23 PM
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We need to mention Michael Middleton. Nicely turned out, with those great shoes.
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  #2464  
Old 07-02-2016, 05:44 PM
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With a steely stare and those slender cheekbones, it is not difficult to see the similarities between these two remarkable women.

And as Kate continues to ready herself for the onerous duties of a future Queen, the tale of her remarkable great grandmother shows how public service truly runs in the family.

The extraordinary story of Olive Middleton - and the tragedy that beset her family - can be revealed today as Britain remembers the fallen heroes of the Somme.

Born Olive Lupton, she, her three brothers and sister enjoyed the life of aristocratic luxury before Britain was ravaged by the outbreak of the Great War.

She grew up in opulent surroundings at the family's ancestral seat of Potternewton Hall Estate, near Leeds in Yorkshire, after being born into one of the pre-eminent families of her time.
Read more: Duchess of Cambridge: Story of Kate's great grandmother Olive who volunteered as a nurse | Royal | News | Daily Express
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  #2465  
Old 07-02-2016, 06:35 PM
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THE Duchess of Cambridge's great, great uncle was a Lieutenant who died at the Battle of the Somme after signing up for service alongside Princess Diana's grandfather, Express.co.uk can reveal today. After studying together in 1910 the two men enrolled at the same time to play their part in the war effort.
I think we might need to put this story in the fiction section.

Albert Spencer is only listed as joining in 1917.
Person Page

Lionel Lupton died in 1916.

Lupton is not listed as having died at Somme on peerage.
Person Page

Someone already updated Wikipedia based on the Express story.

A myth continues...and it is spreading.
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  #2466  
Old 07-02-2016, 07:00 PM
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Peerage is much more reliable than Wikipedia.

The Express is trying to connected Albert Spencer to Lionel Lupton and there is no evidence that the two men knew each other much less joined and fought together.

That makes the story a piece of fiction.

The DM and Telegraph stories from a few years back had Lupton dying at Somme
This part may be true try but that does not mean the Express story has not been fabricated.

All pieces of fiction have bits of facts.
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  #2467  
Old 07-02-2016, 07:29 PM
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The Duchess of Cambridge: Family, Wealth and Background

Claudia Joseph's book on Kate which goes into the background of the her various sides of the family talks about Olive Lupton's three brothers dying in the Great War including Lionel on July 16, 1916 at the Somme.

The John Singer Sargent portrait of Albert Spencer in uniform dates from 1915. So he had to join earlier than 1917.

http://www.wikiart.org/en/john-singe...l-spencer-1915




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  #2468  
Old 07-02-2016, 08:30 PM
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The story they knew each other and joined together seems a stretch. There were 51 British divisions involved in the battle, and even if they attended Trinity at the same time, no proof they knew each other more than in passing. Seems another attempt by reporters to find royal connections even if they are a huge stretch.

According to this Lupton was in the field artillery, and indeed died during the Somme (early) in July 1916 (only a few weeks into a battle that lasted into November).

Lieutenant Lionel Martineau Lupton (1892 - 1916) - Find A Grave Memorial

Albert was a captain in the first life guards (members of the household cavalry).
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  #2469  
Old 07-02-2016, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
The story they knew each other and joined together seems a stretch. There were 51 British divisions involved in the battle, and even if they attended Trinity at the same time, no proof they knew each other more than in passing. Seems another attempt by reporters to find royal connections even if they are a huge stretch.

According to this Lupton was in the field artillery, and indeed died during the Somme (early) in July 1916 (only a few weeks into a battle that lasted into November).

Lieutenant Lionel Martineau Lupton (1892 - 1916) - Find A Grave Memorial

Albert was a captain in the first life guards (members of the household cavalry).
To be fair, BBC talked alot about how it was very very common for classmates, footballclubs, choirs etc to sign up together and then get shipped of together. Hence why an areas whole "supply" of young men could be wiped out in one day...

It's just speculation on their part, but it's very possible. Or at least that they recognized each other. You know, aquantiances. They're not claiming they were best friends.
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  #2470  
Old 07-03-2016, 04:24 AM
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Was not aware that she - Olive Middleton - had blood cousins who were Baronesses - Baroness Airedale and Lady Bullock - 2nd cousins that she knew and worked with!


I thought all of her family were poor..... working class. I read the Daily Mail... silly me!

After all of these years of Kate being from a "middle-class family" - I knew that was wrong!!!! Palace PR to make her appear more like us simple commoners! Now we know the truth
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  #2471  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:23 AM
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Olive is Michael Middleton's side of the family. His side was business type people with some money. It's Carole's side that was the coal miners from Durham working class side. Both her sides of the family were lower income working class.


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  #2472  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:33 AM
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"Olive volunteered as a nurse with her relatives Baroness Airedale, left, and Lady Bullock, right

Her father Francis Martineau Lupton was a wealthy businessman, running the family merchant and cloth making operation, and was also an influential Liberal member of parliament.
Like many of the great families of Britain at the time, they lived the ultimate high life.
Olive's three brothers - Maurice, Lionel and Francis - reputedly drove around Cambridge in a Rolls Royce whilst studying their at Trinity College like their father before them." UK Daily Express June 2nd 2016


In Europe , a "business family" - as you say - does not have Baronesses as their cousins who work with them. A "business family" would NOT have grown up at the huge manor house and have all the land and money that Olive Middleton grew up in.

The photo of Baroness Airedale - Olive Middleton's cousin and neighbour - is photographed with a coronet on her head - to attend George V's coronation.

Yes Carole Middleton's family were working class. Michael Middleton's titled, wealthy family were what we call in the UK and Europe - landed gentry.

That is what this story has shown. and similar stories were in the UK Telegraph 2 years ago.

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  #2473  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:43 AM
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In the lead up to the royal wedding, depending on the newspaper, you got two completely different narratives.

The right-wing DM portrayed Kate as a someone William saved from a life of a poor street urchin, while left-wing papers like the Guardian laughed at the idea Kate was just a 'regular' girl.

Polly Toynbee in particular said there aren't many 'regular' girls that have a public school education, whose parents are millionaires and live such a privileged life.

This is the reality of Britain and the remnants of the class system, either Kate is too posh for some, or she's not posh enough for others.

Mike Middleton's family is above reproach and that's the reason he's hardly ever mentioned in tabloids. It's Carole and her 'social climbing' that really gets DM readers worked up lol.
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  #2474  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:55 AM
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The Duchess of Cambridge: Family, Wealth and Background

How is Michael side titled? If you have relatives that marry into the aristocracy? If my cousin married a baron, it doesn't make me a baron.

It's isn't a secret or a pr move from the palace. The press always focuses on Carole and her roots. KP isn't hiding the Middleton's side. The trip to Bletchley Park talked about her Grandmother Valerie's code breaking work. Kate and William met one of Kate's cousins when they visited Cambridge University and it was reported at the time.


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  #2475  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:14 AM
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When all is said and done, blood is just that. Blood. Of course there's a lot of emphasis on the genetics and whom one descended from and what family is older and/or more titled but, to me, as far as a person's character, upbringing, and education should be looked at with only the person in question and not that somewhere back in the middle ages that person had an ancestor that singlehandedly defended the King to the death.

For me, the most interesting story that came out at the time of the wedding was it became known that Peter Middleton, Kate's grandfather, and Prince Philip spent time together while on a tour of South America in 1962.
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  #2476  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:01 AM
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Michael Middleton's family is certainly titled.


His great great uncle was Sir Charles Lupton of Leeds (who did NOT marry to get his title)


His second cousin (2r) was Lady Bullock, nee Lupton of Leeds


His first cousin (3r) was Baroness von Schunck, nee Lupton (of Leeds) whose daughter was Baroness Airedale of Leeds


THESE TWO LADIES WERE INVITED TO GEORGE V's CORONATION!!!


NO SURPRISES that Michael's father was a co-pilot with Prince Philip.


I no longer believe that Kate is from a simple family who made money. That was just rubbish sold to us by the tabloids. As it says in the Express article today - Olive Middleton was from a "great" "eminent" "aristocratic" family - and extraordinarily rich.


THAT is how Kate was at private school when aged 4 - BEFORE Party Pieces even started.
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  #2477  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:07 AM
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There is no need to shout.

While members of Michael Middleton's family in past generations were titled (some of whom were titled because they married into titled families), the branch of the family that Michael comes from was not.

It is therefore a great stretch IMO to say the Middletons were landed gentry (a point that was made several times when you first made statements of the like back in 2012).
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  #2478  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:12 AM
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Michael Middleton's grandmother was an aristocrat as the Express has revealed.

Please don't think I was shouting!

I guess I was fooled in the early days with talk form the Daily Mail about how "Commoner Kate" would never cope with life as a royal. When you see the superb estates Michael Middleton's grandmother grew up in and the titled members of the family and the wealth.....

Kate was indeed BORN to be a POSH royal and probably a POSH Queen too!!

I guess I am jealous!!
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  #2479  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:15 AM
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The tabloids weren't trying to sell Kate has a simple girl, they were trying to shame Carole from being descendant of miners, being born or living in council house but yet not knowing her place in society by having the nerve to have a successful business. They never went after Michael side of the family.
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  #2480  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:27 AM
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It is great to have these chats again.

I recall now that some people on this site seem to be determined to categorize the Middleton family as "normal and just-like-us". ...like the early UK Daily Mail reports described them.

We have discovered in more recent years that Michael Middleton's family are EXACTLY what the UK Telegraph and UK Daily Express have revealed them to be. wealthy snobs with generations that went to Trinity College, magnificent country estates and MONEY.

Kate's great great uncle - the brother of Olive Middleton of course! - was even a chum with Princess Diana's grandad. Read about it on the UK Daily express web-site this morning!

In short, I agree even MORE with reference in the October 2013 edition of Majesty magazine (yes I have a copy!!) - that Olive Middleton's family were "landed Gentry" and that she was an "heiress" as Joe described her.

I will not be arguing with Jo Little - the editor of Majesty either - nor the other more truthful broadsheet editors. Cheers again
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