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  #21  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Pre-nups seem to be so sad and cynical to me. It's a shame that they seem to be necessary in this day and age.
It is, but because we live in such materialistic world, not sure it was ever any different, it's necessary. That way, the terms are negotiated and stipulated to the agreement of both parties.
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  #22  
Old 12-02-2010, 08:31 AM
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Another consideration is how the "non-royal" spouse receives money during and after the marriage. I know that POW receives money from the Duchy of Cornwall and possibly other sources. But as AFAIK, Camilla, Philip, Sophie, and the spouses of other monarchies do not receive a salary or money from the Civil List.

Particularly in this time, most of the spouses who marry into a royal family must give up a career (and the funds they would have earned working in that career). Even the often criticized Miss Middleton would be working at some job at some point if she was not with Prince William. That alone would necessitate a pre-nup. If that spouse "gives up" their life, even for 20 years of fancy clothes, jewels, travel, etc., and then is widowed or divorced, there should be some agreement whereby they are compensated for the time - happy or troubled - they gave to the royal family. And there should be some (NOT excessive like Diana's multi-million payout or Alexandra's divorce house) settlement payment to provide for their future as anyone in that circumstance would have a difficult time finding legitimate work.

And the initial point of my posting...money recieved from the government, civil list, etc. should not be used for such things as alimony or a divorce settlement. The royals should have to delve into their own savings or sell off something of value to obtain the funds. The country should not be responsible for any divorced partner.
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  #23  
Old 12-02-2010, 08:53 AM
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No one goes into marriage believing that they will be divorced. I think a pre-nup would be a good thing.
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  #24  
Old 12-02-2010, 12:13 PM
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I am sure there will be a pre-nup considering William's postition but if I were Catherine I'd want it to protect me too so I don't end up screwed like Fergie or something....

Now to argue the other side- William does seem like a romantic so he may decide one is unnecssary. but one may be required just because of his position....except are per-nups upheld in British law?
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  #25  
Old 12-02-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cd_1 View Post
absolutely have one! who knows what the future holds? Don't take risks and sign a prenup! I'm surprised to learn they might be the first BRF couple to do so!
I read in the article posted that Princess Diana's secretary remarked that Middleton should get a good prenup. What does he mean by that? I'm assuming the prenup includes standrd things, such as custody of children will lie with BRF, no money for the outsider (in this case, Kate),no tell all books and interviews etc... Basically all in William's favour.

Maybe it's also to protect her- if they are married this long she gets this much $$$ if they divorce, or x amount if there are x children. Something so she can be assured that she won't end up like Fergie-
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  #26  
Old 12-02-2010, 12:54 PM
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Not to get off topic- but how exactly do you figure Fergie was screwed?! Since the divorce she has been living with Andrew gratis, I'm sure there was never a questions about Andrew's providing for the girls. So why exactly after she embarassed herself and the RF many times over and over at the time and since then, should Andrew be picking up the tab for her extravagant lifestyle??

I think a pre-nup should be a requirement for every marriage because rarely does anyone think rationally when it comes down to divorce. But I do feel there is a huge difference when a marriage is broken up because one partner cheated on the other. Then the guilty party, male or female, should have to PAY!

Just because someone marries into a royal family, does that mean that they are entitled to live up to those standards for the rest of their life even if they divorce because they just want out of the marriage or the lifestyle? I think Countess Alexandra of Denmark is a prime example of Royal divorce done right. She still does occasional appearances for charitable organizations, lives quietly and respectably and not extravagantly.
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2010, 01:03 PM
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Let's not make this thread about Sarah's divorce settlement. Its has and can be discussed in the Sarah threads.
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
Another consideration is how the "non-royal" spouse receives money during and after the marriage. I know that POW receives money from the Duchy of Cornwall and possibly other sources. But as AFAIK, Camilla, Philip, Sophie, and the spouses of other monarchies do not receive a salary or money from the Civil List.

Philip is on the Civil List (as is the Queen). As the Consort of the monarch he will be provided for for the rest of his life from public funds (with the new agreement coming in a couple of years from the income of the Crown Estates).

At the moment Camilla is supported by Charles and that will continue until he is King and then they will make some arrangement using the income of the Crown Estates.

Sophie, like the Queen's other children is supported by the Queen directly as she repays any payments, except those for official government duties, paid to her children.

Until the early 90s or so the government paid Anne, Andrew and the rest of the adult royals from the Civil List as well but in late 1992 the Queen agreed to reimburse those funds from her private income. So since 1992 only The Queen, The Queen Mother and Philip have been on the Civil List.
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  #29  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qui mal y pense
Not to get off topic- but how exactly do you figure Fergie was screwed?! Since the divorce she has been living with Andrew gratis, I'm sure there was never a questions about Andrew's providing for the girls. So why exactly after she embarassed herself and the RF many times over and over at the time and since then, should Andrew be picking up the tab for her extravagant lifestyle??

I think a pre-nup should be a requirement for every marriage because rarely does anyone think rationally when it comes down to divorce. But I do feel there is a huge difference when a marriage is broken up because one partner cheated on the other. Then the guilty party, male or female, should have to PAY!

Just because someone marries into a royal family, does that mean that they are entitled to live up to those standards for the rest of their life even if they divorce because they just want out of the marriage or the lifestyle? I think Countess Alexandra of Denmark is a prime example of Royal divorce done right. She still does occasional appearances for charitable organizations, lives quietly and respectably and not extravagantly.
I apologize I didn't mean screwed like they screwed her I was just using the word liberally to mean a generalization- I didn't mean it to sound like oh the BRF screwed her, just she got a small divorce settlement- my apologizes for the confusion!
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  #30  
Old 04-12-2011, 06:30 AM
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I agree with Jacknch's comments about prenups and marriage. I also think that marriage should be for life, not just for when you feel like it and divorce should be made much harder to get, save in the cases of domestic abuse.
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  #31  
Old 04-12-2011, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Catherine Helvin View Post
I agree with Jacknch's comments about prenups and marriage. I also think that marriage should be for life, not just for when you feel like it and divorce should be made much harder to get, save in the cases of domestic abuse.
A few thoughts:

1) Practical as they may be, I hate pre-nups

2) Prenups had little standing in UK courts until very recently. They really are not very common here.

3) It would be very difficult to agree a suitable pre-nup in a situation like this, and to take into account a number of different factors: divorce before or after kids / how long after the marriage / access to any children / royal titles / popularity of Catherine as a working member of the royal family.

4) Royal wealth can typically tied up in trusts and other such mechanism (Duchy's etc), and I would be surprised if a major part of William's wealth is held directly in his name.

5) Taking everything into account, I would be very very surprised if they did acutally get a pre-nup.
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  #32  
Old 04-14-2011, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qui mal y pense View Post
I think a pre-nup should be a requirement for every marriage because rarely does anyone think rationally when it comes down to divorce. But I do feel there is a huge difference when a marriage is broken up because one partner cheated on the other. Then the guilty party, male or female, should have to PAY!
I don't know; I remember reading an interview with a famous lawyer once, and he said that every time he's done a pre-nup, it's inevitably followed by a divorce! Bottom line, it reflects a lack of trust. OTOH, Prince Charles didn't have one with Diana, and it cost him $$$$. I heard he was shocked and really had to scramble to come up with enough cash, and was rather bitter about it.
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  #33  
Old 04-14-2011, 10:08 AM
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Given the precedent set by Prince William's parents, it would be safe to assume that royal lawyers would take steps to protect Prince William's interests. Correct me if I am wrong, but Crown Princess Mary of Denmark signed a prenuptial agreement.
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  #34  
Old 04-14-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Catherine Helvin View Post
I agree with Jacknch's comments about prenups and marriage. I also think that marriage should be for life, not just for when you feel like it and divorce should be made much harder to get, save in the cases of domestic abuse.
I've always thought that a marriage license should cost $10,000 and, if necessary, divorce should be $5.
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  #35  
Old 04-14-2011, 10:33 AM
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A prenuptial agreement doesn't make divorce any harder or easier to get nor undertake, it just protects assests and when hearts are broken even the most rational people can become irrational - if you have large assests to protect IMO they make sense and don't dictate if a divorce will occur or not- things happen, it's best to be prepared.....

I don't think/want to die in early age but I buy life insurance just in case to protect my family/children....same concept in my mind
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:38 AM
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I agree, MrsJ. But there is no "romance" attached to life insurance or pre-nups. LOL
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  #37  
Old 04-14-2011, 02:59 PM
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After what Catherine has sacrificed for William in giving up what a bright and charming girl from a wealthy background who successfully worked for an university degree with honours normally takes for granted: a career, working in a foreign country, well, lately even parties and shopping sprees... I think he should sign over a substancial sum to her in case he doesn't make the marriage work! If she married another man from her social circle, she could have a much easier life. But she is willing to shoulder his burdens, those he inherited and for that he should be grateful. Just my opinion, of course.
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  #38  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:18 PM
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Ms. Middleton's sacrifices are far outweighed by perquisites she and her family may have in the future. It would be impossible to determine whether or not Ms. Middleton wanted to climb a career ladder. She is in the same position as any other ordinary woman, who happens to marry into an affluent family and is requested to sign a prenuptial agreement. At the same time, I would like to note that a possibility of a divorce in the Ms.Middleton's case might be viewed as slim because of her future spouse's family position within the society.
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  #39  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:54 PM
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After what Catherine has sacrificed for William in giving up what a bright and charming girl from a wealthy background who successfully worked for an university degree with honours normally takes for granted: a career, working in a foreign country, well, lately even parties and shopping sprees... I think he should sign over a substancial sum to her in case he doesn't make the marriage work! If she married another man from her social circle, she could have a much easier life. But she is willing to shoulder his burdens, those he inherited and for that he should be grateful. Just my opinion, of course.
Kate hasn't "given up" anything. Whether she married him or not was solely up to her. No one put a gun to her head...

If there is a pre-nup, it has surely already been signed and she would have had her own counsel and, possibly, had input into the document's content.

Under the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973, Section 25, governs the court's decision and cannot be avoided. The court cannot ignore the matters in the section or be bound by the terms of a prenuptial agreement. The section imposes on the court the duty to assess: 1) all the circumstances of the case and, among several other factors, 2) the conduct of each of the parties, if that conduct is such that in the opinion of the court it would be inequitable to disregard it. Plainly, a prenuptial contract could be relevant under either or both of these factors. But the fact that prenuptial contracts are not enforceable does not mean that they cannot be relevant and, in some cases, influential or very influential. The tide may well be turning in favour of attaching more weight to them, subject to the crucial assessment in each case of whether: 1) the agreement was procedurally fair when it was made; 2) the agreement was substantively fair when it was made; and, 3) if its terms were enforced, the agreement would now provide fairly for both parties.

In essence, it ain't, under English Matrimonial Law, worth the paper it's written on.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:57 PM
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Definately! You almost have to have one in this day and age, even if there isn't alot of money involved or plans to get divorced. Just as long as it's fair........
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