Prince William's Suitability to be King

[CordeliaFitzgerald]

But William is NOT just one of the guys. By accident of birth he has a life full of unique privileges and unique limitations. The royal family is well situated to act in ways that benefit the British people because of, not in spite of, this degree of separation. Take away the degree of separation, the sense of history and tradition, the privileges and the limitations and yes, you'll have a normal, one of the guys King. Lots of places have those - we call them politicians!

If I read too much into this sentence, I am sorry. However, after rereading it, I'm stumped as to how you thought I could interpret it any other way. It does seem to imply that William and TBR know what best due to living in a champagne bubble, due to their elitism and unparalled luxury. And that someone who doesn't come from that wouldn't be good enough to run a country.

 

[fascinator]

I've seen him with kids, veterans, homeless people, former addicts, athletes, aristocrats... and I would expect there will be even more of a range as he becomes a full time working royal over the next few years. What more do you think he should be doing, (genuinely curious)?

"I've seen him with kids, veterans, homeless people, former addicts, athletes, aristocrats..."

It’s curious that anyone other than his own group of aristocrats-- “kids, veterans, homeless people, former addicts” are people in need of charity, not his equals, or his betters?


The assumption (not yours) that he would primarily interact with diverse peoples in the context of charity is flawed.

If you're genuinely curious, I honestly think he should seek out diverse people of SIGNIFICANT accomplishments. Surround himself with Pakistani poets or accomplished African artists, great Indian philosophers or celebrated musicians. This may take him out of his depth, but I think he would be enriched by seeking out great minds and creative people. Jackie Kennedy was an incredible model for this. She surrounded the Kennedy's with the world's best cultural contributors. I think it would be wonderful for Kate & William to undertake such a thing. They themselves are not geniuses, but how wonderful it would be to surround themselves with such people. The problem, as I mentioned in an earlier post, is that William's posture in relation to diverse peoples is one of charity. He can find his betters among diverse groups of people.


I am reminded of a quote by David Amram about Baroness Pannonica de Koenigswarter, a patron and a friend of the great genius Thelonious Monk : "It's easy to just dismiss her — to say this was just some wealthy, sophisticated, privileged person doing what they used to call 'slumming' ... "That was not the case. She was elevating herself by being with these musicians.”

 

[Kataryn]

"
If you're genuinely curious, I honestly think he should seek out diverse people of SIGNIFICANT accomplishments. Surround himself with Pakistani poets or accomplished African artists, great Indian philosophers or celebrated musicians. This may take him out of his depth, but I think he would be enriched by seeking out great minds and creative people.

As William is his father's son and grew up at St. James's Palace/Clarence House after his mother's death, I guess he has been surrounded by such interesting people constantly, for this is the company Charles and Camilla keep when they invite to their private dinner parties. Charles already started that tradition at Kensington Palace when still married to Diana and I've read that the children were encouraged to mingle with the guests from an early age. Plus William has an academic degree - so I guess he is well up to the challeneg of interact with educated people on a level both sides have fun with their conversations.

 

[fascinator]

If I read too much into this sentence, I am sorry. However, after rereading it, I'm stumped as to how you thought I could interpret it any other way. It does seem to imply that William and TBR know what best due to living in a champagne bubble, due to their elitism and unparalled luxury. And that someone who doesn't come from that wouldn't be good enough to run a country.

This can't be resolved here. There is a reason why England still has a monarchy and why then colonies waged and won the Revolutionary War. There are intractable cultural differences. It's best, I believe, for Americans to enjoy the things we like (pageantry, cute accents, etc.) and leave unruffled the underlying values that are in truth repugnant to many of us. There is no right or wrong and thinking too deeply unveils a schism that cannot be broached.

 

[fascinator]

As William is his father's son and grew up at St. James's Palace/Clarence House after his mother's death, I guess he has been surrounded by such interesting people constantly, for this is the company Charles and Camilla keep when they invite to their private dinner parties. Charles already started that tradition at Kensington Palace when still married to Diana and I've read that the children were encouraged to mingle with the guests from an early age. Plus William has an academic degree - so I guess he is well up to the challeneg of interact with educated people on a level both sides have fun with their conversations.

Pity that none of this ethnically diverse group of geniuses he met a KP and at St Andrews were able to attend his all-white wedding ceremony.

William clearly has an extremely homogenous group of social contacts. I am of the opinion that engaging a more diverse social group will make him better suited to be the king of a modern British public that is extremely diverse. A failure to do so may, in the future, cause the diverse modern British public to question why they are paying for the upkeep of someone with such a limited experience of British culture and society. I do not count charity as substantive engagement with a group or a culture.

 

[Kataryn]

Pity that none of this ethnically diverse group of geniuses he met a KP and at St Andrews were able to attend his all-white wedding ceremony.

Do you have a link to a complete guest list? For I seem to recall there were people from all kinds of ethnical groups at the wedding. They even invited the Indian grocer and his wife (wearing a very beautifiul sari) from Kate's village.... And I don't think these two needed their charity. AFAIK there were in addition a lot of people from the cultural scene invited. And how come you know so much about William and Catherine's friends when they seem to be extremely discreet?

Plus William started out to study "history of art" at university. Hardly a topic for someone not interested in culture and cultural diversity...

 

[Iluvbertie]

I do think William is one of the most diverse members of the royal family around. He has certainly proved that he is passionate about many aspects not to mention his numerous visits to Africa. This is largely because Diana had wanted her son to grow up in the "real" world and not behind closed palace doors. With Kate firmly by his side I think we will see a lot more from this very gracious yet fun couple. I do agree that HM has been a successful monarch from the "old" order. However, times have changed radically and I think William definitely has the requirements to be a highly valued monarch of the "new" order.

I think the credit for raising royal children in the 'real' world - as opposed to behind palace walls has to go back a generation before Diana.

The present Queen and Duke of Edinburgh insisted that their children attend schools (and less posh ones than Diana insisted on for her sons - although not necessarily the case now back in the 60s Gordounstoun wasn't the elitish school it is now).

 

[fascinator]

Do you have a link to a complete guest list? For I seem to recall there were people from all kinds of ethnical groups at the wedding. They even invited the Indian grocer and his wife (wearing a very beautifiul sari) from Kate's village.... And I don't think these two needed their charity. AFAIK there were in addition a lot of people from the cultural scene invited. And how come you know so much about William and Catherine's friends when they seem to be extremely discreet?

Plus William started out to study "history of art" at university. Hardly a topic for someone not interested in culture and cultural diversity...

Misrepresenting what someone has said and giving an absurd counterargument is a frequent response when one is unable to present a cohesive alternate point of view, yes.

However, I would hazard that is perhaps beneath you.

In case you simply misread, I never said he was not INTERESTED in cultural diversity.

I am hoping that your reference to Kate's Indian grocer and his wife was intentionally ironic.

If you think that William has a socially and economically diverse social group, as evidenced by the appearance of the grocer's wife's lovely sari at the wedding, that is absolutely fine.

 

[muriel]

Pity that none of this ethnically diverse group of geniuses he met a KP and at St Andrews were able to attend his all-white wedding ceremony.

Are you able to substantiate your point with facts?

William clearly has an extremely homogenous group of social contacts. I am of the opinion that engaging a more diverse social group will make him better suited to be the king of a modern British public that is extremely diverse. A failure to do so may, in the future, cause the diverse modern British public to question why they are paying for the upkeep of someone with such a limited experience of British culture and society. I do not count charity as substantive engagement with a group or a culture.

You are right, it is possible that as of now, William's social set-up will be limited, and possibly homogeneos. IMO, that will be as a result of;

a) having attended University in a remote part of the country, as opposed to the London based Uni's and the Oxbridge colleges which are a lot more ethnically diverse in their in-take

b) joining the armed forces, which again are largely ethnically white in their make-up.

In time as William takes on full time royal duties, I would expect W&C, quite like C&C, to become patrons of the arts, spend a lot more time in London, and increase their social networks, which will then include people from all walks of life.

 

[Kataryn]

Misrepresenting what someone has said and giving an absurd counterargument is a frequent response when one is unable to present a cohesive alternate point of view, yes.

However, I would hazard that is perhaps beneath you.

In case you simply misread, I never said he was not INTERESTED in cultural diversity.

I am hoping that your reference to Kate's Indian grocer and his wife was intentionally ironic.

If you think that William has a socially and economically diverse social group, as evidenced by the appearance of the grocer's wife's lovely sari at the wedding, that is absolutely fine.

It's .like back then when so many people assumed that because they didn't see Catherine do something she must be of course lazy. Or that she was not really in love with Williuam but just "waiting" to become the future queen... because we didn't see pics that proved otherwise.

What you are doing here is the same: you simply state that William has only friends from a certain circle and that this is not by chance but by his personal choice. Take eg the Indian grocer: Catherine lived very quietly in Bucklebury pre-wedding. She is know that she likes to cook, especially things that are fast and simple. She obviously knows that grocer and his wife. Could it be that this Indian woman taught Catherine to cook Indian food and on doing that they became something like friends? And that the Indian woman is a discreet friend who when asked talked about her dress but not about details of her relationship to Catherine? I just want to point out that ´we don't know enough to judge William and Catherine in a negative way. But we know enough to say that he does a lot to help and support others.

Why not leave it at that? And please: it is common on these boards to be asked for proof if you state something as a fact. So where is the list of invitees to the "all-white wedding" without cultural diversity because bride and groom do not know about cultural diversity?

 

[Osipi]

In time as William takes on full time royal duties, I would expect W&C, quite like C&C, to become patrons of the arts, spend a lot more time in London, and increase their social networks, which will then include people from all walks of life.

I am going to throw my box of donuts in the ring here. I have to agree with you Muriel that over time William and Kate both will have the opportunity to mix with far more diverse people and cultures than probably any of us will ever meet in our lifetimes and I'd like to add another to your list.

c) As many priviledged young people do, William took a gap year. Many spend that time traveling the world and doing things they like to do. William (and Kate also at a different time) spent time with Raleigh International. They lived the culture in Chile and it wasn't at a 4 star resort either.

To me, its not so important who William has in his circle of friends nor how "cultured" he is that will make him a good monarch but rather his own values and attitudes towards the world around him.

The fact that his chosen profession is a search and rescue pilot alone tells me he's taken his father's motto "Ich dien" (I serve) to heart. I think William is a man that genuinely cares about the next guy and to be honest, I don't think it matters all that much to him where that person is from or what his background might be. To quote one of my favorite poems.......

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

~~~Rudyard Kipling

 

[expat]

Unfortunately the BRF is surrounded by what the courtiers and family understand as suitable friends. Going to a poorer part of the country and receiving a bunch of flowers and saying hello and asking what they do for a living is not mingling with the masses. The occasional visits to nightclubs etc and having people from other walks of life in the same nightclub is not mingling with the masses.
They are apart, and live a completely different life from the so called ordinary people of Britain. If they were to mingle completely and lead the same lives as these people, who are still called their subjects, then what would be the use of having a royal family. Unfortunately I think that we are seeing the beginning of the end for these privileged by accident of birth people.
If the duchess invited her local grocer to the wedding it is for the very reason that she was part of the ordinary folk until Prince William decided to elevate her to the position of wife.

 

[Renata4711]

I think William is trying to be special, but also ordinary.
Which means - he can't win.
Not exactly an enviable position.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

He must have been exposed to different cultures at Sandhurst. Lots of foreigners from all over attend there.

 

[fascinator]

Are you able to substantiate your point with facts?



You are right, it is possible that as of now, William's social set-up will be limited, and possibly homogeneos. IMO, that will be as a result of;

a) having attended University in a remote part of the country, as opposed to the London based Uni's and the Oxbridge colleges which are a lot more ethnically diverse in their in-take

b) joining the armed forces, which again are largely ethnically white in their make-up.

In time as William takes on full time royal duties, I would expect W&C, quite like C&C, to become patrons of the arts, spend a lot more time in London, and increase their social networks, which will then include people from all walks of life.

I'm not critical of William. I have a very high opinion of him and I'm touched by his constant efforts to make himself a better person and make the world a batter place.

The only people of color noticed by reporters at the wedding were heads of state from Swaziland and various Caribbean countries that are part of the commonwealth. AS FAR AS I KNOW, William's guests did not include personal friends of color. Whether that even matters is up for debate.

It's a bit of a joke here. Not a big deal, but an open and obvious fact. I didn't think that proof was needed for a point as obvious as whether it rained on the day of the wedding. Please take this with a grain of salt and a sense of humor:

The View

 

[MARG]

Well, as insulting, humourless and offensive as your "joke" is, it is as on topic as the rest of your diatribes.

It has, as usual, absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "Prince William's Suuitability to be King?"

 

[Daria_S]

The View

I think that this is going just a little overboard. I hate to say this, but it's not showing the United States in a very good light.

 

[fascinator]

Well, as insulting, humourless and offensive as your "joke" is, it is as on topic as the rest of your diatribes.

It has, as usual, absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "Prince William's Suuitability to be King?"

Hi Marg-- nice to meet you. Earlier in this thread more than one poster asked me to provide more info on the diversity (or lack thereof) of the guests. It is not my joke.

 

[fascinator]

I think that this is going just a little overboard. I hate to say this, but it's not showing the United States in a very good light.

Sheri Shepard famously debated whether the world is round because it doesn't say so in the bible. It is perhaps a bit *high pitched* to say this clip puts the entire United States in a bad light. As I said, the clip must be viewed in a humorous light.

 

[muriel]

The only people of color noticed by reporters at the wedding were heads of state from Swaziland and various Caribbean countries that are part of the commonwealth. AS FAR AS I KNOW, William's guests did not include personal friends of color. Whether that even matters is up for debate.

It's a bit of a joke here. Not a big deal, but an open and obvious fact. I didn't think that proof was needed for a point as obvious as whether it rained on the day of the wedding. Please take this with a grain of salt and a sense of humor:

The View

Not sure who you are talking about, but there were a reasonable number of Asian people (of colour, might I add) at the wedding. Unlike the US, there are a lot fewer black people in the UK.

I hope the "reporters" you refer to did not include those rude women on the television

 

[expat]

If Prince William mixed with other cultures at school and Sandhurst the foreign students would be mainly the sons of rulers and other people of influence in their own countries and not representative of the masses in their own countries so on the whole he would be mixing with the kind of people he would meet anyway in his royal life.
I think he is facing an impossible task, if he thinks he can be one of the boys and become a King in the future. Edward VIII wanted that. so he abdicated and from reading many biographies, he spent the rest of his life, if not regretting his abdication, but at least trying to recreate his privileges while he was living abroad. Royal emblems and portraits all over the house, the insistence on his wife being called HRH (in that perhaps he was right but it was petty).
I don't want to go off topic so I will just say I really don't think that William is suitable, but then I don't think Harry is either but then who else is?

 

[4Pam]

Only time will tell if William is suitable. Right now he isn't. I'm confident in William and he has the best teachers: Dad and Grandparents.

If he's allowed to he should visit the other royal houses in Europe or wherever and have a discussion on their roles and gain some insight from their perspective.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

If Prince William mixed with other cultures at school and Sandhurst the foreign students would be mainly the sons of rulers and other people of influence in their own countries and not representative of the masses in their own countries so on the whole he would be mixing with the kind of people he would meet anyway in his royal life.
I think he is facing an impossible task, if he thinks he can be one of the boys and become a King in the future. Edward VIII wanted that. so he abdicated and from reading many biographies, he spent the rest of his life, if not regretting his abdication, but at least trying to recreate his privileges while he was living abroad. Royal emblems and portraits all over the house, the insistence on his wife being called HRH (in that perhaps he was right but it was petty).
I don't want to go off topic so I will just say I really don't think that William is suitable, but then I don't think Harry is either but then who else is?

Actually, I don't think it is imperative that he has to "mix" with other cultures/socio-economic peoples on an "Average Joe" basis. That is the job of elected government.

The duties of the monarch are governed by protocol.

Currently, I don't believe William is ready to be king; but I do believe he will be when the time comes.

 

[Lumutqueen]

People have said this before, of course he's suitable, he's the son of a future monarch and the grandson of the current one. His blood makes him suitable. That's all he needs in the long run.

 

[expat]

Well Edward VIII certainly had all the royal blood necessary but was highly unsuitable.

 

[fascinator]

Not sure who you are talking about, but there were a reasonable number of Asian people (of colour, might I add) at the wedding. Unlike the US, there are a lot fewer black people in the UK.

A "reasonable" number- could you please clarify? (And please note that the original question came up with respect to diversity among personal guests, not heads of state or representatives of charities.)

Thank you.

 

[fascinator]

People have said this before, of course he's suitable, he's the son of a future monarch and the grandson of the current one. His blood makes him suitable. That's all he needs in the long run.

You're absolutely right. The question of suitability conflates monarchy with meritocracy. William was suitable on the day he was born.

Unless, of course, more is demanded of a king or queen in modern times when people have access to information and can chose whether, in times of austerity, it makes sense for the public to support a private individual that feels no duty to his or her public.

 

[Zonk]

How about we stay on topic...if you wish to discuss the diversity (or lack of it) at the Royal wedding....please do so here http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...reflections-on-the-royal-wedding-30897-9.html .

Zonk
British Forums Moderator

 

[Lumutqueen]

Well Edward VIII certainly had all the royal blood necessary but was highly unsuitable.

He fell in love with a divorced women, that makes him highly unsuitable? IMO, no. It made him seem unsuitable in the minds of the royals, politician and possible people, at the time. He would have made a very suitable King, and presumably ruled his country very well and through the war, if he had not been forced to abdicate due to a misguided heart. If Edward had ruled, this topic may not exist.

Love did not make that man highly unsuitable, opinions forced him to be looked upon as unsuitable.

William will, unless (touch wood) something happens, will be King. There is no test he can take, no one really he has to prove himself to, no jury to decide the decision on suitability. He is of royal blood.

 

[American Dane]

He fell in love with a divorced women, that makes him highly unsuitable? IMO, no. It made him seem unsuitable in the minds of the royals, politician and possible people, at the time. He would have made a very suitable King, and presumably ruled his country very well and through the war, if he had not been forced to abdicate due to a misguided heart. If Edward had ruled, this topic may not exist.

Love did not make that man highly unsuitable, opinions forced him to be looked upon as unsuitable.

William will, unless (touch wood) something happens, will be King. There is no test he can take, no one really he has to prove himself to, no jury to decide the decision on suitability. He is of royal blood.

I highlighted the points you made that are incorrect. You are right to say that the direct reason Edward VIII was forced to abdicate was because of his relationship to Wallis, but to honestly think that Britain would have been led well by a Nazi sympathizer when Britain was at war with Nazi Germany, is simply wrong.
Britain was saved from a monarch who would have led his country into the lion's den thankfully by a simple misguided heart.

But this thread is about William's suitability, not Edward's...