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  #561  
Old 12-29-2013, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Eden View Post
It's not about a degree or education it is about 'being like everyone else' and experiencing what it's like to work 9-5 like the average person! Glad Wills worked and continues with his 'new' job. As it has been pointed out by other posts Charles is the heir and William is second, so tell me again, what's the reason for both of them not to work.......... oh yeah of course easing into it!

Anyway not what this thread is about. Wills would make a good king, just show the average person that you are not a 30 year old who is afraid to put in some hours. Work, be that as a pilot or in the firm, BUT work!

You're assuming that we see all their work-and there is ample evidence that the royals do a lot of work behind the scenes.
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  #562  
Old 12-29-2013, 12:35 PM
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Whether William is suitable to be king is a non-issue. If the monarchy survives and William is alive when the time comes, he will be crowned king. Even he is not the all time greatest king to rule. Great Britain and the Commonwealth will survive his reign. Just like they have survived the reigns of much worst rulers, when Kings really did have power.

At this time, William appears to be personable, sane, intelligent, down to earth, accepting of this future, married a reasonably nice woman that he appears from the hacked phone calls, to really like.
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  #563  
Old 12-29-2013, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee27 View Post
Whether William is suitable to be king is a non-issue. If the monarchy survives and William is alive when the time comes, he will be crowned king. Even he is not the all time greatest king to rule. Great Britain and the Commonwealth will survive his reign. Just like they have survived the reigns of much worst rulers, when Kings really did have power.
True. In a sense the Windsors are pets, really. The Realms' pets. Pets with expensive lifestyles. They are kept around primarily for entertainment, and definitely at their "owners'" whim. Once they stop amusing us and providing what the majority consider to be value for money, they won't be replaced when they die. They have reached that stage as far as I'm concerned as an Australian. They don't provide anything we need anymore. I'm still attached to Charles and welcome his visits as a guest, and I like Camilla, but frankly the idea of William's presence here just irritates me. And our splendid (and well educated and accomplished) Governor-General Quentin Bryce is more of an inspiration to me than The Queen.
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  #564  
Old 12-29-2013, 06:33 PM
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A stupid question perhaps and slightly off topic, is the Australian GG an Australian or British national? Or is there no general rule in that respect?
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  #565  
Old 12-29-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
A stupid question perhaps and slightly off topic, is the Australian GG an Australian or British national? Or is there no general rule in that respect?
Originally they were all British though a couple of locals gradually snuck in. Since 1965 all Governors-General have been Australian.
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  #566  
Old 12-29-2013, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
True. In a sense the Windsors are pets, really. The Realms' pets. Pets with expensive lifestyles. They are kept around primarily for entertainment, and definitely at their "owners'" whim. Once they stop amusing us and providing what the majority consider to be value for money, they won't be replaced when they die. They have reached that stage as far as I'm concerned as an Australian. They don't provide anything we need anymore. I'm still attached to Charles and welcome his visits as a guest, and I like Camilla, but frankly the idea of William's presence here just irritates me. And our splendid (and well educated and accomplished) Governor-General Quentin Bryce is more of an inspiration to me than The Queen.
This has been the subject of a referendum in the past, and Australia voted to keep the Monarch as Head of State.

You "sound" like someone who's had a bad day. Hope you feel better soon.
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  #567  
Old 12-29-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
This has been the subject of a referendum in the past, and Australia voted to keep the Monarch as Head of State.

You "sound" like someone who's had a bad day. Hope you feel better soon.
Yes we did have a referendum but the question that was asked was not whether we wanted a monarchy or a republic.

We were asked whether we wanted a monarchy or a republic in which the president was appointed by politicians and not directly elected by the people. Faced with those narrow terms, some who supported a republic chose to vote to keep the monarchy rather than having a president foisted on us.

Who knows what the result would have been had it simply been a question of monarchy or republic or even monarchy or directly elected president. As Sir Humphrey pointed out in one of the classic "Yes Minister" episodes, it's all about how you ask the question.

I admire the Queen and Prince Philip and like Charles and Camilla. I am neutral about William. I am both a British and an Australian citizen. As a British citizen I support the retention of the monarchy in the United Kingdom and in any other realm where the people wish to maintain that system of government. As an Australian I would prefer my head of state to be an Australian citizen whom I get to choose.
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  #568  
Old 12-29-2013, 07:52 PM
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Thank you for explaining that so clearly. Interesting question! I daresay there while be another referendum within the next 5-10 years.
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  #569  
Old 12-29-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
This has been the subject of a referendum in the past, and Australia voted to keep the Monarch as Head of State.
Not true, but VictoriaB has already explained what actually happened.

Quote:
You "sound" like someone who's had a bad day. Hope you feel better soon.
Aren't you sweet! But no, I'm having a wonderful day. Firing on all cylinders, actually.
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  #570  
Old 12-29-2013, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
True. In a sense the Windsors are pets, really. The Realms' pets. Pets with expensive lifestyles. They are kept around primarily for entertainment, and definitely at their "owners'" whim. Once they stop amusing us and providing what the majority consider to be value for money, they won't be replaced when they die. They have reached that stage as far as I'm concerned as an Australian. They don't provide anything we need anymore. I'm still attached to Charles and welcome his visits as a guest, and I like Camilla, but frankly the idea of William's presence here just irritates me. And our splendid (and well educated and accomplished) Governor-General Quentin Bryce is more of an inspiration to me than The Queen.

I am afraid that this is true. Once that veil of mystery is lifted, the illusion of a concept of "royalty" is gone. The Queen has retained it. Charles has managed to retain it. William is too insistent upon a "normal" existence.

I think that as most people on this site are monarchists, they take umbrage at the idea that most people do in fact view the royals as pets (without these people ever stopping to put it in these terms and clarify their point of view)... which is as demeaning to the royals as it is to the commoners looking in.

I think a great deal of this morphing from some reverence for the royals has to do not only with 21st Century views on royalty but with the celebritization of British royalty - starting with the Queen Mother who was keen on selling the image of her little family to counteract all the turmoil surrounding the Prince of Wales to Diana, who was just keen on selling herself and taking down anyone in her path she did not like. The end result has been disastrous.

What does this have to do with Will's suitability to be king? Well, if the Windsors are going to continue to sit on the throne, Will has a lot of revamping to do - revamping the idea that he's a celebrity or pet, revamping the notion of royalty in the 21st century, its purpose, its value, etc.

I think it's a daunting task. I think it's the hardest task a British monarch has had to face. I know some of you think that Will and Kate are up to that task. I personally do not. But I have been wrong before. And I have been right.
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  #571  
Old 12-29-2013, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Well, if the Windsors are going to continue to sit on the throne, Will has a lot of revamping to do - revamping the idea that he's a celebrity or pet, revamping the notion of royalty in the 21st century, its purpose, its value, etc.

I think it's a daunting task. I think it's the hardest task a British monarch has had to face. I know some of you think that Will and Kate are up to that task. I personally do not. But I have been wrong before. And I have been right.
Wouldn't this task be up to Charles? He is after all the next in line to the throne.

As for whether William is suitable to be king, I think he'll be fine. As others have said, he's shown he can lead through his work as an SAR pilot. Not to mention the hands on training he's getting from his grandmother and father - which is really all the training he needs. I mean, unlike other jobs, one can't take a class on how to be a monarch. Plus he still has years before he'll even get to the throne (and it's not guaranteed that the monarchy will still be around then), so all this hand wringing about William seems a bit premature.
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  #572  
Old 12-29-2013, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by soapstar View Post
Wouldn't this task be up to Charles? He is after all the next in line to the throne.
It will be up to whoever is on the throne when there needs to be some revamping. I think Charles will get a pass here - for one thing, he's up there in years as well, and I think many almost see him as an interim king between the Queen and Will. Not that he sees it that way, and will certainly attempt to leave his mark.

But I think that most British people who support the monarch largely have their sights pinned on Will. Will, like his mother, is a larger than life character. We expect a lot from larger than life characters (which is another reason why Charles will get a pass - not much is expected of him - and I'm talking of the general public here, not the very small amount who actually watch them as we do). They have a lot of hopes and dreams pinned on Will and his wife and family. I think it's a lot to ask. When I speak of Will's suitability to be king in terms of keeping the monarchy together and turning it into something workable and in fact admirable to the 21st century denizen, as the Queen did for the 20th century, and my belief that he might not be up to the task, I do not discount the fact that there are other forces at play here that are out of his control, and in fact never were in his control.
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  #573  
Old 12-29-2013, 10:20 PM
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Gracie! Incoming! *Hiding under the desk* The Charles and Camilla People are COMING!!! If you want to meet me under the desk, I will bring wine and cheese!
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  #574  
Old 12-29-2013, 10:38 PM
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The Queen is showing no signs of ill health so I fully expect her to be around several more years when you look at the longevity of the women in her family.

By the time Charles gets to be King he's not going to be a spring chicken himself. However I think, unless he is in bad health, he will take his place if for no other reason in order to help William learn more and delay all that load until it's necessary.

If we are getting under the desk I'll bring the anti-pasta.


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  #575  
Old 12-29-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
A stupid question perhaps and slightly off topic, is the Australian GG an Australian or British national? Or is there no general rule in that respect?
Can be either, but it will be a cold day in hell before a British citizen is GG. There was once talk that Prince Charles, Prince Edward and Prince William wanting the position. Our Prime Minister selects the GG, and all have said that our GG will be Australian citizens who have been raised here, and more importantly, understands Australia.

Our current GG is one I look up to. Hopefully Cosgrove gets the appointment next year.

As for William's suitability: anyone who thinks he is ready for it now need their heads read. He is way too immature for the role. He has had little travel to meet his subjects. And throwing him and Catherine into that role would be monarchy suicide.
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  #576  
Old 12-29-2013, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
But I think that most British people who support the monarch largely have their sights pinned on Will. Will, like his mother, is a larger than life character. We expect a lot from larger than life characters (which is another reason why Charles will get a pass - not much is expected of him - and I'm talking of the general public here, not the very small amount who actually watch them as we do). They have a lot of hopes and dreams pinned on Will and his wife and family. I think it's a lot to ask.
He's only "larger than life" because of his mother. If Camilla had been his mother and not Diana I don't believe this would be discussed. He's never actively courted attention so all the expectations of his perfect future are being dreamed up by all the Diana uberfans who think he'll be the second coming of King Arthur. And that's a lot of pressure to put on a guy who's still trying to come to terms with the fact that the job will be his one day and all the normalcy that he's wanted and the little he's been able to achieve will, for the most part, be gone.

The British monarchy has been around for 1200 years and there's a mountain of history and tradition that would break anyone if they didn't have time to let it soak in. I don't care if you're born into it, if you're eventually going to lead the whole caravan, you're not going to be able to do it by osmosis. William will need the leadership of his grandmother and his father and I believe he's got the brains to be the kind of King needed for the 21st century. But he's only really just gotten started so whatsay we all give him the time to find his footing and come back and discuss the issue in 15 or 20 years.
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  #577  
Old 12-29-2013, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
It will be up to whoever is on the throne when there needs to be some revamping. I think Charles will get a pass here - for one thing, he's up there in years as well, and I think many almost see him as an interim king between the Queen and Will. Not that he sees it that way, and will certainly attempt to leave his mark.

But I think that most British people who support the monarch largely have their sights pinned on Will. Will, like his mother, is a larger than life character. We expect a lot from larger than life characters (which is another reason why Charles will get a pass - not much is expected of him - and I'm talking of the general public here, not the very small amount who actually watch them as we do). They have a lot of hopes and dreams pinned on Will and his wife and family. I think it's a lot to ask. When I speak of Will's suitability to be king in terms of keeping the monarchy together and turning it into something workable and in fact admirable to the 21st century denizen, as the Queen did for the 20th century, and my belief that he might not be up to the task, I do not discount the fact that there are other forces at play here that are out of his control, and in fact never were in his control.
I remember reading a poll (a year or two ago) that had Charles ahead of William when it came to who should be the next king. So I don't think most British people are pinning their hopes and dreams on William and Kate.

Since it will more than likely be some time before William gets to the throne, I don't see why there should be so much focus on him being able to keep the monarchy together. It will be up to Charles to turn the monarchy into something workable and admirable during his reign. William has years before he'll have to do that. In the meantime, he just needs to continue working and learning all he can before he takes the throne.
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  #578  
Old 12-30-2013, 12:39 AM
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While Diana was popular in her time, quite a few folks I know (myself included) have over the years got sick and tired of having her rammed down our throats as something extra special who should be venerated to almost a saint like status.

Charles and Camilla have worked bloody hard to win over the British public and they have managed that with poise and grace.

Now part of why William is so popular is simply down to his late mother (not to mention how she died), he's only 31 so he has plenty of time to prove he is worthy of wearing the crown in the future.

The BRF have slowly over the past 100 years been evolving, they have gone from being those aloof almost mystical beings to normal people who are borne into an extraordinary family.

The fact that William is showing signs of continuing this "common touch" is good and helps maintain that all important connection between the vast majority of population of the UK and the Royal family.

But all this is neither here nor there since it will be some time before he even gets to the throne and a hell of a lot can happen in 10 years or more.
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  #579  
Old 12-30-2013, 01:08 AM
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Y'know after reading all this, one has to really feel for the position that George is in.

I do think there is one thing that defines the British Royals and that is tradition. They keep it alive. They make it real. Like a ring that's been handed down in a family for centuries, age old traditions are still adhered to although many would think outdated. Its a remembrance of where they came from and how they got to where they are now. Its purely history in motion.

William might seem like a regular "just call me William" on occasion and the media has had a blast with Harry's escapades but when it boils down to actually representing the monarchy, these boys are well versed in how it should be done. There's a beautiful picture of William doing a formal bow to his sovereign on base in Anglesy and Prince Henry was all in the royal mode as he closed the 2012 Olympic games. The best is yet to come and I don't think they'll disappoint us. Where they are needed and they need to get the word out about something that needs to be said, they do get it done.

They're not political. They're being followed for who they are and don't actually try to attract the attention that celebrities get. If anything, growing up with the mother they had, they've earned the right to duly abhor the press. They do know they live in the proverbial fishbowl. Do you blame them really for wanting to see the other side of the fence?

One thing I think we can all agree on is that in the 21st century as we move into a more global society, we also realize the value of history and tradition and that perhaps is what a monarchy represents but we also realize that it is our own responsibility to realize what affects our lives and laws where we live.
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  #580  
Old 12-30-2013, 01:23 AM
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I have no doubt that when the time comes, Their Majesties King William & Queen Catherine will do a great job. Right now, I'm very interested in watching them carryout their apprenticeships and establishing their royal roles.

BTW, I think William will make a fine King. His mother and father did whatever they could to help him realize his destiny.

We don't know when they will be called to the throne but I think they will do what they can to prepare for it.
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