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  #501  
Old 12-23-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Thank you very much for this post. It's spot on and very well-reasoned.
I agree as well that this is a very good response. IMHO William also had an excellent teacher in his mother. By accompanying and observing her in public he had the opportunity to see someone with a real talent with human interaction. I have the sense that William like his grandmother and Charles is somewhat introverted and has had to work on his "people skills." When I watch video footage of William and Harry doing their meet and greet work, I see a great deal of Diana like interaction.

Between his private "Kingship 101" with HM, formal education, military service and on the job training, I do believe he will be as well prepared as any of our current monarchs and heirs.
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  #502  
Old 12-23-2013, 03:05 PM
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The European and British monarchs now are just formal head of states. They have no political power, actual power, therefore they don't need to be raised with knowledge how to rule. Their main role in life is to be mostly the nations symbols. We can't even be sure that next generation will spare the monarchy as institute.
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  #503  
Old 12-23-2013, 04:26 PM
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For whatever reason, the British royal family (and possibly British nobility) do not put much, if any, importance or value on a college education. While formal education with advance degrees or extensive internships is expected of any member of European royal families, it is all but disdained by the British.
This is not an attack - just an observation.
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  #504  
Old 12-23-2013, 04:47 PM
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When you look at the Queen's family I would disagree - two of her four children have degrees from Cambridge and of her six adult grandchildren 5 have degrees with Harry never having the grades to actually go to uni. That is one of the issues of course - that the BRF don't always get the grades for uni - none of the Queen's children actually qualified on merit although strings were pulled for both Charles and Edward to go because they wanted to do so.

Further afield it is normal for them to go to uni after school these days.

However they don't see a need to continue past three to four years of higher education and go into military training or the workforce using their degrees - Beatrice is the only one who appears not to have used her degree, is currently out of work and isn't doing military service.

William has been trained hands on by his grandmother, during his school days with his weekly meetings at Windsor with her and by his father through a range of activities including meetings with the Duchy of Cornwall. Like his father and grandmother he is naturally wary in public - and given the way the public hounded his mother to her death can you blame him, with their constant demands for more and more information and photos?
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  #505  
Old 12-23-2013, 04:48 PM
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Whilst I think there is an element of truth in what you say, I believe that they (the BRF) are also staunch believers in life lessons. It must be acknowledged that a degree is merely the result of a superior education, not a superior intellect. The Queen is the living example of that fact.

While getting a degree is very good in itself it is not the only "education" someone like William needs and, to be honest, a lot of what he is learning is out of sight of the public. We can surmise that the Queen is imparting a fair amount of inside knowledge as is his father and we can take a stab in the dark as to what exactly it is. But, realisticly we have no idea . . . posters make statements of absolute "fact" about William's education, how many languages he can speak, etc. Do people even remember that Charles speaks Welsh, albeit with an bit of an accent?
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  #506  
Old 12-23-2013, 04:51 PM
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Prince William's Suitability to be King

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee27 View Post
For whatever reason, the British royal family (and possibly British nobility) do not put much, if any, importance or value on a college education. While formal education with advance degrees or extensive internships is expected of any member of European royal families, it is all but disdained by the British.
This is not an attack - just an observation.

I wouldn't necessarily say that.

Of the Queen's children, Charles and Edward went on to university, while Andrew followed the traditional route of going straight into the military.

Of the Queen's 6 adult grandchildren, 5 of them went on to university, with only Harry choosing to go the traditional straight to the military route.

Of the Queen's royal cousins, the Gloucesters both went onto university, while the male Kents went into the military. Of both that generation and the next, only the women (the Queen, Margaret, Alexandra, and Anne) went straight into royal duties.
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  #507  
Old 12-23-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee27 View Post
For whatever reason, the British royal family (and possibly British nobility) do not put much, if any, importance or value on a college education. While formal education with advance degrees or extensive internships is expected of any member of European royal families, it is all but disdained by the British.
This is not an attack - just an observation.
Hang on, if we go through the families;

Charles - 2:2 Bachelor of Arts from Cambridge, plus a term studying Welsh History and language in Wales.
William - 2:1 Scottish Master of Arts Degree from St Andrews
Henry - choosing to go straight from Secondary education into the army.

Anne - Beneden School leaving with six GCE O-Levels and two A-Levels.
Peter - Degree in Sports Science from the University of Exeter, of course we have the trip to Gordonstoun.
Zara - Degree in Equine Physiotherapy from University of Exeter, plus 11 GCSE's and 2 A-Levels from Gordonstoun.

Andrew - Gordonstoun, leaving with 4 A-Levels then going straight to the Military (tradition)
Beatrice - 2:1 BA in History & History of Ideas from Goldsmiths, University of London.
Eugenie - 2:1 BA Combined Honours from Newcastle University

Edward - 2:2 BA History from Cambridge

Charles, William, Henry, Andrew and partially Edward went on to the military which is traditional in the british royal family, serving in the military for such a long period seems less traditional in European Royal Families other than "doing a stint".

Peter after his graduation in 2000, worked for Jaguar as corporate hospitality manager and then for WilliamsF1 racing team, where he was sponsorship accounts manager. He left WilliamsF1 in September 2005, for a job as a manager at the Royal Bank of Scotland in Edinburgh. In March 2012, he left RBS to take on a role as managing director at SEL UK.

Zara has an amazing career in equestrian sports.

Beatrice as well as doing her official duties has done several internships.

Eugenie is currently in NY with a *edit* job .

A lot of emphasis is placed on education I believe, they can hardly take Being a Prince Bachelor of Arts Degree can they so they all specified in something useful. History, Geography, Literature, Sports/Sports Science etc.
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  #508  
Old 12-23-2013, 05:00 PM
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Actually Anne didn't go straight to royal duties but made her way as an equestrienne for most of the 1970s with part-time duties when training and competing permitted.

Andrew and Harry had no choice - they didn't get the marks to go to uni and strings had to be pulled to get Charles and Edward in - let's face it - the Windsor's aren't that bright.

William, Beatrice and Eugenie got into their courses on merit.

It is necessary to remember that a place at uni isn't automatic but that you have to get certain grades at school and the fact that many of them didn't get those grades has impacted their higher education opportunities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post

Zara has an amazing career in equestrian sports.
Not all that amazing - not as great a career as her father but better than her mother's true but still too early to judge how 'amazing' that career will be as she has barely started - her sports the 'amazing' competitors are those who make it to four and five Olympics and are still competing at the highest level well into their 50s.

Quote:
Beatrice as well as doing her official duties has done several internships.
9 official duties this year - mainly on weekends - and quitting a job after 8 months after a couple of internships - hardly a strong work history. She is getting involved in charity work, but the reports have been that she wants to work full-time but so far isn't making much headway there.

Quote:
Eugenie is currently in NY on her (second?) internship.
This is a job not an internship which is supposed to be setting her up to work for the company in London when they start their London operation.
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  #509  
Old 12-23-2013, 05:13 PM
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Iluvbertie are you a teacher by chance?
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  #510  
Old 12-23-2013, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Not all that amazing - not as great a career as her father but better than her mother's true but still too early to judge how 'amazing' that career will be as she has barely started - her sports the 'amazing' competitors are those who make it to four and five Olympics and are still competing at the highest level well into their 50s.
Nitpicking, really? Opinions dear. By my standards, what she's done is amazing, evidently not by yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
9 official duties this year - mainly on weekends - and quitting a job after 8 months after a couple of internships - hardly a strong work history. She is getting involved in charity work, but the reports have been that she wants to work full-time but so far isn't making much headway there.
I said;
"Beatrice as well as doing her official duties has done several internships."

Something you have just re-confirmed? So the point of you mentioning that she happened to quit a job after 8 months is? People quit their jobs after a day because they can't hack it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
This is a job not an internship which is supposed to be setting her up to work for the company in London when they start their London operation.
Thank you for pointing something useful out in my post, I'll go back and change it.
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  #511  
Old 12-23-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I have to say, I do think he should study the Cold War nuclear arms race, and theoretically has done so already, although I can agree he should skip Thucydides' History.
I actually think that it would be a good idea for him to spend some time with Thucydides, and also with Herodotus, and Sun Tzu as well. I think it is a mistake to dismiss ancient history and ancient philosophers and scholars as irrelevant. A study of such matters broadens one's perspective, and I think this is a good thing for a modern hereditary head of state.
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  #512  
Old 12-23-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Iluvbertie are you a teacher by chance?

Yes I am - History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Nitpicking, really? Opinions dear. By my standards, what she's done is amazing, evidently not by yours.
Not just mine but all my friends who are very into equestrianism as a sport - one of whom is currently on the Australian Development Squad for 3 day eventing and hoping to make the Aussie Olympic team at some point in the future (not 2016 as she will still be too inexperienced having only been on the circuit for about 5 years) - says probably not until her 30s and then hopes to have an average career - which will see her competing into her 50s.

Her views, and that of many others in the sport and who follow the sport is that Zara is average - not outstanding or great - but also has a name to help her through. She is regarded as not in the same class as her father, for instance and he isn't seen as having all that great a career - Olympic gold and bronze along with other achievements but average career overall and Zara hasn't achieved his level yet.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but it is probably a good idea to remember that she barely made the last Olympic team - and only did so when the final position opened up after an injury to Funnell - so no injury to a better competitor and no Olympics for Zara.

Quote:
I said;
"Beatrice as well as doing her official duties has done several internships."

Something you have just re-confirmed? So the point of you mentioning that she happened to quit a job after 8 months is? People quit their jobs after a day because they can't hack it.
Yes they do - but they then try to get another - she hasn't done so. There were reports in the summer that she was 'interviewing' for another job but the fact that The Queen's granddaughter can't get a job says a lot about the fact that she really isn't looking all that hard.
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  #513  
Old 12-23-2013, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Not just mine but all my friends who are very into equestrianism as a sport - one of whom is currently on the Australian Development Squad for 3 day eventing and hoping to make the Aussie Olympic team at some point in the future (not 2016 as she will still be too inexperienced having only been on the circuit for about 5 years) - says probably not until her 30s and then hopes to have an average career - which will see her competing into her 50s.

Her views, and that of many others in the sport and who follow the sport is that Zara is average - not outstanding or great - but also has a name to help her through. She is regarded as not in the same class as her father, for instance and he isn't seen as having all that great a career - Olympic gold and bronze along with other achievements but average career overall and Zara hasn't achieved his level yet.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but it is probably a good idea to remember that she barely made the last Olympic team - and only did so when the final position opened up after an injury to Funnell - so no injury to a better competitor and no Olympics for Zara.



Yes they do - but they then try to get another - she hasn't done so. There were reports in the summer that she was 'interviewing' for another job but the fact that The Queen's granddaughter can't get a job says a lot about the fact that she really isn't looking all that hard.
She made it to an international level and has an Olympic medal to her name; that makes her accomplishments in this sport above average, actually.

Not thinking about what her father accomplished as a rider and forget about her last name. First, think about the amount of people who ride horses competitively and see how many of them NOT make it to an international level and you can already conclude she is better than most people. Second, she made it to the Olympic team and contributed to their silver medal. How is that not above average?! So many riders never ever get to see that Olympic medal around their necks due to various of reasons. May it be funding, a good horse, sponsors or actual talent.

Her last name make it easier for her to get sponsors and the good horses, sure. Having parents that were already in the horse business makes it easier too. This goes for atleast 45% of all international competitive riders. If you ain't got money or connections, it's going to be tough.

However, horse riding (in a lesser extent dressage) is an honest sport in the sense that, if you f.ck up, your horse will not do well and be prepared to say goodbye to your medal chances. An off-day will neck you and not preparing your horse will hurt you. An exceptional horse will take you further.

Horse riding is difficult on all aspects. Saying that her achievements are mere average is demeaning. Sure, she's not the greatest eventer to have practised the sport but what she's done for the sport is not average. She already helped by making it more popular too.

And I think we can all agree that Beatrice is not exactly a work alcoholic. If this was the ''real world'', my mum and dad would tell me to stop slacking and start building a future.
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  #514  
Old 12-24-2013, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Whilst I think there is an element of truth in what you say, I believe that they (the BRF) are also staunch believers in life lessons. It must be acknowledged that a degree is merely the result of a superior education, not a superior intellect. The Queen is the living example of that fact.

While getting a degree is very good in itself it is not the only "education" someone like William needs and, to be honest, a lot of what he is learning is out of sight of the public. We can surmise that the Queen is imparting a fair amount of inside knowledge as is his father and we can take a stab in the dark as to what exactly it is. But, realisticly we have no idea . . . posters make statements of absolute "fact" about William's education, how many languages he can speak, etc. Do people even remember that Charles speaks Welsh, albeit with an bit of an accent?
There also would have been a significant amount of academic work involved in the extensive military training both William and Harry underwent, as well as practical work and courses/workshops/lectures surrounding leadership skills, team building, etc.
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  #515  
Old 12-24-2013, 08:11 AM
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There is only one person in the world who know what is to be the sovereign of the UK and other realms. There is only one Duke of Cornwall and Prince of Wales. William can't take a course on Kingship. He will learn from his father and grandmother.

Compared to earlier times, he has a wide educational base. Before princes would be tutored at home and then shipped off to sea as teenagers. William has be educated outside the palace since he was three, Eton and St Andrews aren't shabby. I don't know how useful his geography degree is but he got something more important while at St Andrews- Kate.
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  #516  
Old 12-24-2013, 01:33 PM
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This thread is 26 pages and I'm not reading it all. I did skim through the educations of Haakon, Victoria and Frederik and was very impressed. I also believe the princes of Japan have advanced degrees in some good fields. Sorry to say but William doesn't compare.
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  #517  
Old 12-24-2013, 01:47 PM
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None of the formal education stuff on the 26 pages will make any difference to whether William is a good king or not.

QEII is one of the least formally educated monarchs in the past 60 years. And she has done a good job.
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  #518  
Old 12-24-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Not just mine but all my friends who are very into equestrianism as a sport - one of whom is currently on the Australian Development Squad for 3 day eventing and hoping to make the Aussie Olympic team at some point in the future (not 2016 as she will still be too inexperienced having only been on the circuit for about 5 years) - says probably not until her 30s and then hopes to have an average career - which will see her competing into her 50s.

Her views, and that of many others in the sport and who follow the sport is that Zara is average - not outstanding or great - but also has a name to help her through. She is regarded as not in the same class as her father, for instance and he isn't seen as having all that great a career - Olympic gold and bronze along with other achievements but average career overall and Zara hasn't achieved his level yet.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but it is probably a good idea to remember that she barely made the last Olympic team - and only did so when the final position opened up after an injury to Funnell - so no injury to a better competitor and no Olympics for Zara.



Yes they do - but they then try to get another - she hasn't done so. There were reports in the summer that she was 'interviewing' for another job but the fact that The Queen's granddaughter can't get a job says a lot about the fact that she really isn't looking all that hard.
She would have made the previous two Olympic teams quite easily with Toytown had he not been injured. Eventing is a sport where injuries, both to horses and humans, often help shape how the teams are created.

Once she was on the team she certainly pulled her weight- her Cross Country was flawless and her dressage was really well done too.

Very few people make history in their sports- there are very few people who become the "Best Ever", but if you think Zara Phillips is an average rider, you don't know much about the sport. And the idea that Mark Phillips is an average rider is outright laughable.

She'll have many chances to come. As a professional eventer, she could compete well into her fifties.
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  #519  
Old 12-24-2013, 02:57 PM
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Compare the education and training received by the British royals with that of the European Royals. HUGE difference. I am not saying that the extensive training and education of most of the European royals will make them better leader - but I don't see how it can hurt. Also it means that most can earn a salary independent of the the crown.
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  #520  
Old 12-24-2013, 03:41 PM
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Compare the education and training received by the British royals with that of the European Royals. HUGE difference. I am not saying that the extensive training and education of most of the European royals will make them better leader - but I don't see how it can hurt. Also it means that most can earn a salary independent of the the crown.
Interesting point. This is about an heir to the throne, not royals in general (although the posts have gone that way). My query is have any of the heirs to European thrones had a job (outside of the military)?
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