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  #381  
Old 04-01-2012, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
The whole wanting William to take over before Charles thing is ageism pure and simple. Most western societies now value youth over experience. Good luck winning a British general election at 60+. You basically wouldn't have a hope.
Well said.

And so true is it that youthfulness and it's possibilities are often considered the attractive option over age and experience. The handsome prince with the attractive wife is always going to outshine the ageing senior and his not so attractive spouse. The social psyche is so sexualised that the younger, more attractive and personable option will generally always appeal to government, industry and community as a whole.

In other words, there's nothing sexy in having a 70/80+ year old couple lead a nation. No matter how prepared and dare I suggest, well adjusted to the prospect, they may be.
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  #382  
Old 04-01-2012, 11:30 PM
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The easiest way for William to refuse the throne is to convert to Roman Catholicism - he would immediately cease to be in the line of succession and no need for parliament to do anything.
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  #383  
Old 04-01-2012, 11:50 PM
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I can just imagine what people will be saying in another 20years when William is 50 and his child is in their late teens: "William should abdicate for the younger better looking child".
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  #384  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:18 AM
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It happened in the 70s with Charles and The Queen - she should abdicate for the youthful Charles etc and will happen when William is older and has a younger heir.
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  #385  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:32 AM
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Excatly as I see it: for the general public having a youthfull monarch is just more attractive; we like to look at youthfull, good looking people. Youth holds so many promises and opportunities - we all like to dream .

But the reality of being a monarch nowadays is not soooo very attractive - all this greeting, handshaking, grinning, ceremonies and stuff and always in the public eye - every step being ogled.

I want to see those big critics doing it just one week - or even a day (with grace and smiles and nice things to say ).

one of the good thing about monarchy is holding up tradition and giving people a focuspoint for a feeling of belonging.
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  #386  
Old 04-02-2012, 08:23 AM
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That the issue even comes up is remarkable, don't you think? Did it ever come up with Charles? No. With Elizabeth? No. But it does with William.

This great desire to be 'normal' - to live a 'normal' life - which seems to mean being far from royal duties and the royal family seems unique. Am I wrong? Might be the reason the rumors are flying.

A big thing is made that he is not yet the heir so that - of course - he isn't imbedded in the royal lifestyle. Is there any precedent for such absolution from royal duties?

Anne's children have been raised to a 'norma'l life in view that that is exactly what their future lives will be. William is not in the same boat. More than anything William's insistence on having a 'normal' life speaks to some sort of ambivalence about who he is and what his life is destined to be. Its a conundrum.
Prince William grew up just as the media was exploding. Deference had gone, 24hr news was starting, paparazzi felt they were entitled to pictures of the royals no matter what they happened to be doing. He watched the media make his parents' lives a total misery and, in his view, essentially kill his mother. The Queen and Charles didn't face that kind of atmosphere when they were growing up.

Prince William doesn't like the fact that as soon as he becomes a full time working royal any residual press restraint will vanish. He and Kate are mostly left alone in Angelsey, particularly by the British press. His life ceases entirely to be his own as soon as he stops being a member of the armed forces and becomes a full time royal.

I don't blame William for not relishing that. He has remarked himself that he likes to be in control. When King his life will be dictated by his role and his responsibilities. He'll know exactly what he'll be doing on any given day 12 months in advance. I think William will find that difficult, but everything he's said suggests that he knows it's his duty to get on with it.
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  #387  
Old 04-02-2012, 09:33 AM
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...The Queen and Charles didn't face that kind of atmosphere when they were growing up....
You make excellent points - and no doubt he was profoundly impacted by all the media attention his mother chose to subject him to. Recall that she had him greeting crowds when he was quite young - and put the two boys in front of the cameras for family outings and what not. The experience must have been defining for him - clearly a sensitive sort.

You write: "The Queen and Charles didn't face that kind of atmosphere when they were growing up." Mainly that was the case because of the choices of their parents - though even the Queen began to change that with the late 60's documentary on the lives of the royals.

Diana chose a lot of her press coverage we now know. She it was who called them up to let them know where she'd be for a photo-op. Does William really blame the press for his mother's death? Has he ever said that? Or is that your surmise because it was the widely bandied about 'truth' at the time of her death - before we knew how complicit Diana was with the press photographers? How much she fomented the press frenzy by her own choice.

William has it in his power to lead a very circumscribed life outside of the glare of the media and still be a royal. The family owns plenty of estates where privacy can be had. He can travel under-the-radar, as does his father and other royals. I don't think its black-or-white. This excuse that William's admirers give for William's absence from his royal family and duties doesn't really hold up for me.
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  #388  
Old 04-02-2012, 09:53 AM
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I know I'm going to be castigated, but he also has influences from Kate. I often wonder if SHE wants him to be king and, I must say, I have my doubts about whether she does or not. We don't know her and cannot know what she would like. It will make a difference.
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  #389  
Old 04-02-2012, 10:19 AM
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I'm more bemused by the thought that a woman who willingly marries into a ruling dynasty, all too well aware of what the future is expected to bring, would do so with the hopeful expectation that her husband may not want to be King. Furthermore, that she would use whatever influence she possessed to encourage her husband's resolve either way on the matter.

To me, the mere conception of it makes no sense whatsoever.
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  #390  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:03 AM
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Very well put!
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  #391  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I'm more bemused by the thought that a woman who willingly marries into a ruling dynasty, all too well aware of what the future is expected to bring, would do so with the hopeful expectation that her husband may not want to be King. Furthermore, that she would use whatever influence she possessed to encourage her husband's resolve either way on the matter.

To me, the mere conception of it makes no sense whatsoever.
I share your feeling that such an idea is nonsensical. In fact, there's a whole band of Kate hating trolls online whose entire reason for disliking her is that they feel she hung around for so long so that she could land the most eligible bachelor in the world. Some rather deluded people believe that she's been determined to win her Prince and so accede to the highest position in the land since she was about 13.

So now for some to somehow say that she's pestering him to give it all up? I've heard it all now.
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  #392  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:03 PM
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You make excellent points - and no doubt he was profoundly impacted by all the media attention his mother chose to subject him to. Recall that she had him greeting crowds when he was quite young - and put the two boys in front of the cameras for family outings and what not. The experience must have been defining for him - clearly a sensitive sort.

You write: "The Queen and Charles didn't face that kind of atmosphere when they were growing up." Mainly that was the case because of the choices of their parents - though even the Queen began to change that with the late 60's documentary on the lives of the royals.

Diana chose a lot of her press coverage we now know. She it was who called them up to let them know where she'd be for a photo-op. Does William really blame the press for his mother's death? Has he ever said that? Or is that your surmise because it was the widely bandied about 'truth' at the time of her death - before we knew how complicit Diana was with the press photographers? How much she fomented the press frenzy by her own choice.

William has it in his power to lead a very circumscribed life outside of the glare of the media and still be a royal. The family owns plenty of estates where privacy can be had. He can travel under-the-radar, as does his father and other royals. I don't think its black-or-white. This excuse that William's admirers give for William's absence from his royal family and duties doesn't really hold up for me.
While I agree that Diana could have done a whole lot more to shield her boys from the press, and actually used them in her very public war with her husband, I feel you're understating the development of the media in the 1990s and 2000s at least. When the Queen was growing up very few people had a TV, the newspapers kept a respectful distance from the Royals. The exact opposite of today.

Charles was 'the heir' from such an early age, I feel he's been much more settled with his future role. If anything, it's his current role - that of the heir without a specific function or role - that Charles has struggled with.

I think it's accepted at this stage that William has a disdain for the media, particularly photographers, bordering on hatred. Whatever his mother's complicity in it, he saw his parents suffer greatly at the hands of the press. I also think it's pretty settled now that William feels (as I think most sensible people do) that the papparazzi were complicit in their mother's death. Let's not also forget that it was William, who having figured out that the press had hacked his phone, set in train the 'outing' of the press's despicable and illegal activity which has so far got the News of the World shut down and a huge public inquiry set up into press standards.

William wants to 'give' the press as little as he can get away with. He can control all that much better while not a full time royal. Let's also face facts - there are plenty of serving royals in the UK right now. We're not lacking royal bodies to fulfil engagements. His remaining a 'part-time' royal suits everyone at the moment - gives him and his wife some privacy, allows him to pursue further a career he enjoys, means he and his wife are not overshadowing the Queen and PoW - in fact the only people it doesn't suit are the press and us royal watchers who want to see what Kate's wearing every day .
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  #393  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I'm more bemused by the thought that a woman who willingly marries into a ruling dynasty, all too well aware of what the future is expected to bring, would do so with the hopeful expectation that her husband may not want to be King. Furthermore, that she would use whatever influence she possessed to encourage her husband's resolve either way on the matter.

To me, the mere conception of it makes no sense whatsoever.
Think of Empress Elisabeth of Austria. She is known to have secretly harboured hopes that her husband would be disposed and had already transfered quite an amount of money to Switzerland so they could live comfortably till their old adage. She is quoted to have written to him: "if only you were a mere citizen and not an emperor" and to have urged him to abdicate to be able to live with him and him alone...

So - the concept existed. It's not very common but quite some Royal ladies are known to have been relieved when in 1918 their monarchy ended and with it the strike court ceremonials. You can read about that in Maria Eulalia of Spain's book of the times after WWI. Being Ex-Royals meant more freedom for them.
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  #394  
Old 04-02-2012, 03:17 PM
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Many a woman has married with hopes of changing her husband. I said I would be castigated and I was. I can't understand why the concept seems so foreign. Only time will tell.
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  #395  
Old 04-02-2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
I know I'm going to be castigated, but he also has influences from Kate. I often wonder if SHE wants him to be king and, I must say, I have my doubts about whether she does or not. We don't know her and cannot know what she would like. It will make a difference.
The problem with this is that both William and Catherine are very strong individuals. I wonder how much bending William would do in a case such as you describe. He may not want to be King, but as we know, abdication is pretty much a dirty word in the British Royal Family. I'm also pretty sure Catherine is aware of the feelings the said family has on the concept and issue of abdication. It would be inconsiderate of her to go such a manipulative route. Her job is to support William, not lead him in a direction that may have horrid circumstances for the whole institution of monarchy in the United Kingdom.

However, I'm sure there's an author out there that would love to take this particular route, and run with it. Definitely makes for a good novel.
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  #396  
Old 04-02-2012, 04:33 PM
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I just fail to see what might lead someone to think that? Have I missed some rumour/innuendo/suggestion/gossip that might lead any right-thinking person to think Catherine's urging William to renege on his duty, which he has clearly and publicly stated he intends to fulfil?
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  #397  
Old 04-02-2012, 04:47 PM
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Many a woman has married with hopes of changing her husband. I said I would be castigated and I was. I can't understand why the concept seems so foreign. Only time will tell.
I can see a wife hoping to change different aspects of her husband's life (style, activities, career) but to sway him accepting his future role as King that I'm not so sure about.

Unless Kate is secretly working for the UK's Republic group then I do believe that she will do her best to support him in any way possible.

Apart from Harry or his cousins she is most likely the person who understands his concerns about his future role and all of its responsibilities. Apparently she has helped him in the past when it came to decision making so I believe that she continues in that role today.
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  #398  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:01 PM
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Outrageous scenerio - ok take a deep breathe!

William says no to being king - assume no children
Harry next in line - assume survives active service in Afganistan and William decides to sacrifice him on the alter of monarchy
Harry says no - assume no children
Duke of York - says YES
Princess Beatrice of York - me next - why didn't anyone prepare me??????????
So many many variables.

No, no, no. William will become king; he doesn't expect his brother, uncle or cousin to take it on and Catherine knows it is also her responsibility. Just be PATIENT. Take a deep breathe and realise its not about today, or tomorrow but 20 years away.
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  #399  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:30 PM
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If William blames the press then he also has to blame the public who feed the press by buying the stuff the press put out. That could be a much bigger issue - knowing that the public - his mother's fans - were complicent in her death means he would want to shield his family from that sort of public support.
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  #400  
Old 04-02-2012, 05:32 PM
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Many a woman has married with hopes of changing her husband. I said I would be castigated and I was. I can't understand why the concept seems so foreign. Only time will tell.
You were not castigated by me. A mere difference of opinion!

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Think of Empress Elisabeth of Austria

Indeed, a woman who was by all accounts not the most 'settled' of women in any case and was totally repulsed by court life and etiquette. A total non conformist and a free radical, i.e; free spirit.

Her hopes for her husbands deposition were not so much for the sake of her husband, but her own self indulgent desire to live a quaint and relatively 'simple' life. Be it one of accustomed comfort.

In this day and age, the woman would have required quite a number of counselling sessions and a few pills to boot I'm sure! I mean, is it any wonder her sense of duty was compromised when her own father would disregard his own official duties in pursuit of private leisure and recreation?

Furthermore, Sisi lived in an age where being told what to do greatly outweighed any real sense of personal choice and thus, she married who she was told. No one made Catherine marry William, and she had the choice not to. Though after a good nine or so years of familiarising herself with William's world, I think it's fairly safe to assume that she knew all to well what she was getting herself in to.

The life of the Queen/Empress, in relation to the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, really is a case of chalk and cheese.
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