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  #181  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:59 AM
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Is William made of the stuff of kings? Only time will tell.
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  #182  
Old 07-18-2011, 06:24 PM
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Quite frequently it is the circumstances during which one reigns that determine if you are a great king or not. George VI would be an example, no one really had high hopes when he came to the throne but WWII proved he was a stronger man than most expected. He rose to the occassion.
Edward VII came quite late to the throne after years of not being able to play an active role in public life due to his mothers disapproval. He has spent his years gambling, horseracing and bedding many women. Yet as King he proved to be a shrewd diplomat, much relied on by his Ministers, and at his death a truly popular monarch.
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  #183  
Old 07-18-2011, 09:05 PM
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Unless there are some unforeseen events William will one day be the King whether he is suitable or not. Will he be a great king? William will have the biggest role in deciding that question. His own committment to preparing himself and willingness to do what it takes will be the deciding factor. There are among the current crown princes/princess some exemplary rolemodels.

There may not even be a commonwealth by the time William reaches the throne so he must be very adaptable to what the future may hold.
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  #184  
Old 07-19-2011, 09:55 PM
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I look forward to seeing more of William & Catherine when Charles is King.

As the Prince of Wales he will be brilliant, and this would be like an apprenticeship of sorts.

Love the Queen.
Love Charles.
Love William.
... ... Look forward to a strong Monarchy with hope in my heart that people everywhere accept they are an important part of 'History in the making', and let them do what they do & show respect to them for living they way the do!
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  #185  
Old 07-19-2011, 11:32 PM
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I think he'll make a good King. The fact that he's living like a normal person despite his wealth reveals a great deal. He could easily choose to live his life of luxury, to live in the champagne bubble, but instead he's out there--experiencing life. While it might not seem like much, I think it will enable him to be a better King because he knows what life is like for persons outside his aristocratic atmosphere. (I can't wait till the day arrives when people talk about how the King and Queen once did their own grocery shopping. Or still do. :))

If he's not stepping up enough right now, I can't say I blame him: He's two removed from the throne and QEII still seems very springly and energetic despite her age. Charles won't be ruling anytime soon, neither will William. Plus, he loves his father and I don't think he wants to be seen as trying to overstep/overshadow him where monarchy business is concerned.
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  #186  
Old 07-20-2011, 12:56 AM
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Let's not kid ourselves that he is living like a normal person. Having the city apartment at Kensington Palace says a lot about his normal life.
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  #187  
Old 07-20-2011, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Let's not kid ourselves that he is living like a normal person. Having the city apartment at Kensington Palace says a lot about his normal life.
Of course, he'll always be surrounded by luxury. It's a part of his heritage; what's the big deal that he also has a home in Kensington? I don't think he should have to feel guilty about that. Nor do I feel negatively towards him that he lives in opulence while in London. The point of my post was is that he has chosen voluntary to experience what people live like outside his aristocratic circle, which is something he didn't have to do. And which is something I doubt most of his peers or even his family have done or experienced. He's bound to have a lot more empathy for the common folk than most people in his family due to the fact that he is living a servantless life when Angelsey. That he does his own grocery shopping. That he does his own laundry. It wasn't but 2 generations ago that the monarchy had a hand-off approach. But he is challenging that. He's like Diana--getting out there and interacting with the normal, non-aristocratic people, getting his hands dirty. That's going help him be more suitable than just being a figurehead for a charity like a typical royal (from any country) is.
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  #188  
Old 07-21-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CordeliaFitzgerald View Post
Of course, he'll always be surrounded by luxury. It's a part of his heritage; what's the big deal that he also has a home in Kensington? I don't think he should have to feel guilty about that. Nor do I feel negatively towards him that he lives in opulence while in London. The point of my post was is that he has chosen voluntary to experience what people live like outside his aristocratic circle, which is something he didn't have to do. And which is something I doubt most of his peers or even his family have done or experienced. He's bound to have a lot more empathy for the common folk than most people in his family due to the fact that he is living a servantless life when Angelsey. That he does his own grocery shopping. That he does his own laundry. It wasn't but 2 generations ago that the monarchy had a hand-off approach. But he is challenging that. He's like Diana--getting out there and interacting with the normal, non-aristocratic people, getting his hands dirty. That's going help him be more suitable than just being a figurehead for a charity like a typical royal (from any country) is.
It's interesting to me because I actually think that - if he wants the monarchy to continue - it almost isn't voluntary, IMO, that he works for a living and is semi "normal." What I mean is that, in this day and age, with so many people struggling, can you imagine the uproar if PW and PH gallivanted around in private jets on constant vacations, didn't work and continued their lives of rolling out of clubs drunk all the time? I think there were lots of articles about them when they were partying more often and whether the monarchy was worth it if they were what the next generation was all about. Can you imagine if they were still acting like that?! I think the calls for an end to the monarchy would be a lot louder if they continued to act like playboy millionaires (even though that is what they are)...so in some sense, I do think he is "forced" to prove that he works hard and is worthy of continuing the monarchy and being king someday. Does that make any sense?

And, honestly, your last sentence about him getting out there and interacting with normal, non-aristocratic people, I only see as accurate when he's on-duty. I know Kate is not an aristocrat, but she is rich...he doesn't seem to have any non-rich friends or even any non-white friends (that I've ever seen in any pictures or at the wedding, other than folks from Diana's charities, etc.) so I don't really see him as being that different from other generations of his family...I know that you need a certain level of cash to support a life of polo and vacations in the Seychelles, but in some sense if you are meant to represent all the people in your country, shouldn't your social circle be a little more diverse (racially, socio-economically)? I dunno, maybe I'm just naive.

And, don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge him the life he was born into, I just get annoyed when I feel like they (PW, Kate, "palace sources") try to tell me he is just like any other bloke. Or that he lives an ordinary life washing up the dirty dishes, etc.

In terms of the thread topic question, I agree that we'll have to wait and see what happens when he is finally king and what his life and service has been leading up to that. I'll probably be a little old lady in my rocker reminiscing about when he was born and the day he got married
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  #189  
Old 07-21-2011, 07:52 PM
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when I feel like they (PW, Kate, "palace sources") try to tell me he is just like any other bloke.
Even I wouldn't go that far.

Quote:
I do think he is "forced" to prove that he works hard and is worthy of continuing the monarchy and being king someday. Does that make any sense?
Yes, that makes sense. It actually reminds me of the socialites who do charity work to prove they have value and contribute to society. They don't have to, but they do so because they don't want to perceived as lazy, shallow or spoiled.

Quote:
but in some sense if you are meant to represent all the people in your country, shouldn't your social circle be a little more diverse (racially, socio-economically)?
Feminists and Civil Rights groups (at least the ones here in the states) have been trying to answer that question for over a 100 years. The conclusion always is: it's hard to break people out of their comfort zone. Yes, theoretically, we all strive to be all-inclusive, but it's much more difficult to achieve it in reality. So I can't begrudge William for not having friends from all economic, racial and cultural classes. I certainly don't. For example, I care about civil rights, gay rights, and women's rights, but 99% of my friends are white women, and goodness knows I'm not line to rule a throne. So I'm not going to begrudge William for not having any homeless friends that I know of even though poverty is an issue he clearly seems to care about.
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  #190  
Old 07-21-2011, 08:05 PM
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It is always difficult trying to combine a royal life with reality as well; I can remember one of the better quality papers pointing out [not unkindly either it has to be said] the incongrous nature of Diana, at a Royal Engagement [quite an early one] accepting a cheque for one of her charities .......whilst wearing a designer dress that cost much more than the sum of the fundraiser [£2,000]. William we are all agreed is born to be King and nothing can ever really make him 'one of us' but at the same time it is surely to his benefit that he is getting what I will call a wider experience of life than what is generally 'available' to members of the BRF.

[off topic - I can remember hearing a speech by the Duke of Westminster (at the time the richest man in the UK) who was addressing people (including me) at an NSPCC event. He began his speech by urging us to consider those 'less fortunate than ourselves' whereupon everybody laughed loudly - the choice of words seemed amusing as the entire audience was obviously 'less fortunate' that the Duke}
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  #191  
Old 07-22-2011, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CordeliaFitzgerald View Post
Feminists and Civil Rights groups (at least the ones here in the states) have been trying to answer that question for over a 100 years. The conclusion always is: it's hard to break people out of their comfort zone. Yes, theoretically, we all strive to be all-inclusive, but it's much more difficult to achieve it in reality. So I can't begrudge William for not having friends from all economic, racial and cultural classes. I certainly don't. For example, I care about civil rights, gay rights, and women's rights, but 99% of my friends are white women, and goodness knows I'm not line to rule a throne. So I'm not going to begrudge William for not having any homeless friends that I know of even though poverty is an issue he clearly seems to care about.

MERELY A SYMPTOM

This is a good point. I do think that William is genuinely compassionate and wants to help people. I also think that he has been trained to perceive his posture in relation to other races as an act of charity, rather than addressing a social equal. This simply has not been asked of him. I think the BRF is rather shameless in this regard. The lack of diversity among Williams friends is just a symptom of a much greater problem in the UK- the lack of opportunities for people of color and the still pervasive idea in racial superiority that perpetuates racial divisions. The wedding was shockingly all-white. We here in America remarked "aren't there any black people invited inside" . The political and economic power of people of color in the United States would have made it shameful to have such a ridiculously all white event as the royal wedding, particularly on the public's dime. You wouldn't know it from the attendees, but England has a very significant black and Asian population so there is no excuse. One would think that after plundering so many continents and then wrapping themselves in the jewels ripped out of the earth in foreign lands, the royals would have made a friend or two of another race, or bothered to cultivate a more privileged class among people so ruthlessly exploited?

SINS OF THE FATHER

His father, Prince Charles has such deeply ingrained prejudices, that one can only hope William transcends such low level thinking:
Prince Charles: People Should Know Their Station in Life

Day, who worked as his personal assistant for five years, had suggested that assistants with university degrees should have the opportunity to train as private secretaries.
Prince Charles, in memos he wrote said the following:
"What is wrong with people nowadays? Why do they all seem to think they are qualified to do things far above their capabilities?" ...
"This is all to do with the learning culture in schools. It is a consequence of a child-centered education system which tells people they can become pop stars, high court judges or brilliant TV presenters or infinitely more competent heads of state without ever putting the necessary work or having the natural ability. It is a result of social utopianism which believes humanity can be genetically engineered to contradict the lessons of history."
Education Secretary Charles Clarke told the BBC. "The key point which I think is so, so damaging is when whole groups of people are dismissed as having no possibility, no ambitions, nothing can be done with them. I think that is really damaging," Indeed.
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  #192  
Old 07-23-2011, 12:51 AM
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In fact there were people of color as guests at the royal wedding, they were, for the most part royalty in their own countries or otherwise aristocratic but one would hardly expect "street people" to be there. It might be a good idea for people to take a look at Youtube or other recordings of the wedding. I would also suggest that many, many weddings in the US are largely white OR if the bride and groom are people of color, so are their guests for the most part. In other words, it is not unusual and I would venture to say that there were more people of color at the royal wedding than many/most weddings. In fact, it seems to depend mainly on the bride and groom as to the color makeup of the guest.
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  #193  
Old 07-23-2011, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by fascinator View Post
MERELY A SYMPTOM
This is a good point. I do think that William is genuinely compassionate and wants to help people. I also think that he has been trained to perceive his posture in relation to other races as an act of charity, rather than addressing a social equal.
And you base this impression on what? Your infinitely superior understanding?
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Originally Posted by fascinator View Post
One would think that after plundering so many continents and then wrapping themselves in the jewels ripped out of the earth in foreign lands, the royals would have made a friend or two of another race, or bothered to cultivate a more privileged class among people so ruthlessly exploited?
As a dyed-in-the wool republican you honour and esteem your illustrious ancestors who, history shows, made friends and equals of all the Native peoples of the Continental US who were never deprived of their homes and herded onto unfertile Reservations to starve whilst the settlers raped their land. Your history also shows a remarkably progressive move to enfranchise all native peoples and those of colour imported into your country as cargo!

Let's be honest here. There is not one country in the world that can look back at their history from the safety third millennium and say they did no wrong. History tells us different!
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Originally Posted by fascinator View Post
SINS OF THE FATHER
His father, Prince Charles has such deeply ingrained prejudices, that one can only hope William transcends such low level thinking:
Prince Charles: People Should Know Their Station in Life

Day, who worked as his personal assistant for five years, had suggested that assistants with university degrees should have the opportunity to train as private secretaries.
Prince Charles, in memos he wrote said the following:
"What is wrong with people nowadays? Why do they all seem to think they are qualified to do things far above their capabilities?" ...
"This is all to do with the learning culture in schools. It is a consequence of a child-centered education system which tells people they can become pop stars, high court judges or brilliant TV presenters or infinitely more competent heads of state without ever putting the necessary work or having the natural ability. It is a result of social utopianism which believes humanity can be genetically engineered to contradict the lessons of history.
Quote:
Although the memo (written in 2003) was read out at the hearing, lawyers refused to show it to the media. Therefore, the context and veracity of the prince's statements could not be independently verified.
Why am I not surprised!

Having been on the receiving end of Job Applications written in text and monosyllabic answers provided in interviews I can only say that unfortunately Prince Charles has not flinched in hitting the nail squarely on the head.
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Originally Posted by fascinator View Post
Education Secretary Charles Clarke told the BBC. "The key point which I think is so, so damaging is when whole groups of people are dismissed as having no possibility, no ambitions, nothing can be done with them. I think that is really damaging,"
To which the Education Secretary, a strong supporter of the above mentioned regime, has responded in the obligatory knee-jerk "shoot the messenger" language of said social engineers!

All the above notwithstanding, Prince William has earned his degree at University and earned his place in the RAF as a Pilot. An accident of birth did not sit his exams for him. He did. And you had better believe he saw his fellow students at University, Sandhurst and RAF Flying Training as not only equals but competitors!
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  #194  
Old 07-23-2011, 02:27 AM
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I was referring to her(her ministers) making the Empire Great and definitely not to what happened in India and Ireland (Ireland especially as I am of Irish origin) in fact I have heard that to help the famine relief (people eating grass as they had no food) she sent the not even a princely sum in her day of 300 pounds.
Kataryn as to the matchmaking I was referring to her family not others, well she managed to marry her children to most of the great royals of her time and her grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, went as royals to Germany, Russia and many other countries. She was family matchmaker supreme.
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  #195  
Old 07-23-2011, 05:36 AM
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Are we getting away from the topic of William's suitablility as future king?
I think what's lacking is a better grasp of - at least - French, German and Spanish.
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  #196  
Old 07-23-2011, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
And you base this impression on what? Your infinitely superior understanding?
As a dyed-in-the wool republican you honour and esteem your illustrious ancestors who, history shows, made friends and equals of all the Native peoples of the Continental US who were never deprived of their homes and herded onto unfertile Reservations to starve whilst the settlers raped their land. Your history also shows a remarkably progressive move to enfranchise all native peoples and those of colour imported into your country as cargo!

Let's be honest here. There is not one country in the world that can look back at their history from the safety third millennium and say they did no wrong. History tells us different!

Why am I not surprised!

Having been on the receiving end of Job Applications written in text and monosyllabic answers provided in interviews I can only say that unfortunately Prince Charles has not flinched in hitting the nail squarely on the head.
To which the Education Secretary, a strong supporter of the above mentioned regime, has responded in the obligatory knee-jerk "shoot the messenger" language of said social engineers!

All the above notwithstanding, Prince William has earned his degree at University and earned his place in the RAF as a Pilot. An accident of birth did not sit his exams for him. He did. And you had better believe he saw his fellow students at University, Sandhurst and RAF Flying Training as not only equals but competitors!
To take what I said as a statement about the moral superiority of the US vs the UK is to miss the point entirely. I certainly did not mean it that way and I understand that would be incorrect, but the relative status of people of color in the two countries IS remarkably different.

As for monosyllabic answers and such, the woman discussed in the article was entirely qualified for her job and had more than sufficient credentials for the position to which she wished to be promoted. It is unfair to dismiss all members of a class or a race as simply unqualified without taking a moment's pause, and that is what the education secretary was addressing. I have interviewed people of all races and many of them have been kind enough to prove unworthy whether regardless of their race

Finally, it would be better not to make assumptions about who my "illustrious ancestors". If you had any idea, you would probably assume I could manage to do no more than grunt in monosyllables and bang on a keyboard.

Sincerely,
Cargo
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  #197  
Old 07-23-2011, 08:59 AM
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Well he certainly brushed up on his French for his Canadian trip! As with all languages, if they are not in constant use they become rusty. The UK is not a multi-cultural society with more than one predominat language. That makes things much harder for those learning a second language.

My nephew is currently employed teaching "Conversational English" in Brazil. Who'd have guessed he'd get paid for just talking?
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  #198  
Old 07-23-2011, 11:58 AM
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I would actually prefer a future monarch didn't try too hard to be one of the people. I think it's great that William has had experiences in his life where he's been pitted against his peers as just another person. He knows that he earned his university degree and most especially his job as a search and rescue pilot on his own merits, ( he could be the second coming of Christ and the military powers that be still wouldn't let him pilot a multi million dollar piece of equipment around rural Wales if he wasn't good). IMO earning something because of talent instead of being given something by luck builds a strong character, which in turn makes a strong king.

But William is NOT just one of the guys. By accident of birth he has a life full of unique privileges and unique limitations. The royal family is well situated to act in ways that benefit the British people because of, not in spite of, this degree of separation. Take away the degree of separation, the sense of history and tradition, the privileges and the limitations and yes, you'll have a normal, one of the guys King. Lots of places have those - we call them politicians!
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  #199  
Old 07-25-2011, 12:03 AM
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Well he certainly brushed up on his French for his Canadian trip!
He got quite a lot of mileage out of three very simple pre-edited sentences in a heavily practiced speech. Was there any footage of him carrying on an off the cuff conversation in French?

As Anglophones, we are faced with incredibly low standards when speaking or even attempting another language. Any attempt is greeted with rapturous praise. I'm not complaining, of course.
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Old 07-25-2011, 12:22 AM
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I would actually prefer a future monarch didn't try too hard to be one of the people. I think it's great that William has had experiences in his life where he's been pitted against his peers as just another person. He knows that he earned his university degree and most especially his job as a search and rescue pilot on his own merits, ( he could be the second coming of Christ and the military powers that be still wouldn't let him pilot a multi million dollar piece of equipment around rural Wales if he wasn't good). IMO earning something because of talent instead of being given something by luck builds a strong character, which in turn makes a strong king.

But William is NOT just one of the guys. By accident of birth he has a life full of unique privileges and unique limitations. The royal family is well situated to act in ways that benefit the British people because of, not in spite of, this degree of separation. Take away the degree of separation, the sense of history and tradition, the privileges and the limitations and yes, you'll have a normal, one of the guys King. Lots of places have those - we call them politicians!
Well, with William's wealth, privilege and background, he'll never be one of the guys. I actually find comments like these to rather demeaning. Maybe it's because I'm an American, but your comment seems to imply that those who come from humble, working class backgrounds are ignorant and unfit to run a country. A claim I find baseless and insulting. William will never experience poverty. He won't know what it's like to struggle to pay bills or live from paycheck to paycheck. He lives in a bubble. Yes, that bubble is filled with tradition and history, but look how often it has backfired against TRF. Diana's legacy might be controversial, but she did something important: she forced TRF to step outside their bubble and experience the real world.

What I like about William is that he has tried to continue Diana's legacy by stepping outside that bubble. By admitting that he lives in one, that's he's privileged in ways many of his subjects will never be. That wisdom and knowledge is what will make him suitable to be king. It's sort of like how TRF was forced to leave the bubble during WW 2.

Also, I think Elizabeth is such a good monarch partly because of World War 2. Whatever the differences between the classes, WW 2 served as a leveler in many ways (death, poverty, etc).
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