Prince William Created Duke of Cambridge: April 29, 2011

[branchg]

The palace says she doesn't have the HRH Princess William of Wales. I dunno if that's different then having the rank of a princess. I'm not great with titles/styles but from what I'm understanding from his posts the palace is telling him that her title would have been HRH Princess William of Wales had she not gotten HRH the Duchess of Cambridge. Now as I said I dunno if that's different then having a rank of a princess

What the Palace means is Catherine married a Peer of the Realm, The Duke of Cambridge, who is also of royal rank as HRH Prince William. She automatically enjoys the style, title and rank of her husband upon marriage, which is HRH The Duchess of Cambridge, making her a royal duchess.

If William had not been created a Peer, her style would then be "HRH Princess William of Wales". Because she is now The Duchess of Cambridge, it is incorrect to refer to her as "Princess William", however, she is both as a result of her marriage and enjoys royal rank as HRH.

 

[Sister Morphine]

The palace says she doesn't have the HRH Princess William of Wales. I dunno if that's different then having the rank of a princess. I'm not great with titles/styles but from what I'm understanding from his posts the palace is telling him that her title would have been HRH Princess William of Wales had she not gotten HRH the Duchess of Cambridge. Now as I said I dunno if that's different then having a rank of a princess

Whatever William is, Catherine is the feminine equivalent of it. He is HRH Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Strathearn, Baron Carrickfergus. She is HRH Princess William Arthur Philip Louis, Duchess of Cambridge, Countess of Strathearn, Baroness Carrickfergus.

However, you are known by the highest-ranking title you have. Charles is The Prince of Wales, Andrew is the Duke of York, William is the Duke of Cambridge. So their wives (or former wives) are styled appropriately to that. Catherine's highest-ranking title is Duchess of Cambridge. She still is HRH Princess William, but as that is not the highest-ranking title she has, that's not how she's styled.

 

[ghost_night554]

ooh see I told you guys I'm useless with titles/styles. Makes more sense now. So she holds that title but not styled as that but as Duchess of Cambridge and has the rank of a princess?

 

[branchg]

ooh see I told you guys I'm useless with titles/styles. Makes more sense now. So she holds that title but not styled as that but as Duchess of Cambridge and has the rank of a princess?

That's correct. She holds royal rank as the wife of a male-line grandson of The Sovereign ("HRH Princess William"), but is titled as The Duchess of Cambridge because she is the wife of a Peer of the Realm, which takes precedence.

 

[MRSJ]

-"Miss Middleton would have become HRH Princess William of Wales, but she did not, as Prince William was created a Royal Duke."
web • 5/12/11 6:23 AM

-Palace spokesman quoted another example: "So the Countess of Wessex should not as an alternative be referred to as Princess Edward."

-''As they told us on wedding day, the palace are relaxed about it and accept she'll be called Princess Kate but that is the formal position.''

-@RoyalUniverse I have to go on what Buckingham Palace has said: that she is not a Princess and is not entitled to be called Princess William

Per Rotalreporter directly from Palace- Kate is NOT a princess, not even Princess William.... so HRH Princess William Duchess of Cambridge is NOT her title then- it's only DofCambridge - she doesn't hold rank of princess then bc she is not Princess William (?).....

 

[MRSJ]

That's correct. She holds royal rank as the wife of a male-line grandson of The Sovereign ("HRH Princess William"), but is titled as The Duchess of Cambridge because she is the wife of a Peer of the Realm, which takes precedence.

She still is HRH Princess William, but as that is not the highest-ranking title she has, that's not how she's styled.

But per the palace she is not HRH Princess William so thus she can not hold that rank- I get that she is styled by higher title but they seem to be saying she is not Princess William (not that she isn't titled that way but that she actually is not) thus she can't hold the rank of Princess/Prince..... is that what they're saying? Bc it really seems to be.....

I guess I am not understanding how if she is not HRH Princess William as a person then how can she still hold the rank of princess? The line was always she is a princess, princess William but now that seems to not be so....

So confused, please help?

 

[Osipi]

-"Miss Middleton would have become HRH Princess William of Wales, but she did not, as Prince William was created a Royal Duke."
web • 5/12/11 6:23 AM

-Palace spokesman quoted another example: "So the Countess of Wessex should not as an alternative be referred to as Princess Edward."

-''As they told us on wedding day, the palace are relaxed about it and accept she'll be called Princess Kate but that is the formal position.''

-@RoyalUniverse I have to go on what Buckingham Palace has said: that she is not a Princess and is not entitled to be called Princess William

Per Rotalreporter directly from Palace- Kate is NOT a princess, not even Princess William.... so HRH Princess William Duchess of Cambridge is NOT her title then- it's only DofCambridge - she doesn't hold rank of princess then bc she is not Princess William (?).....

comfuzzle 'em and ask what's the difference then between title and style?

She's NOT a princess in her own right but she is HRH Princess Wiliam Duchess of Cambridge etc. She is styled as The Duchess of Cambridge.

Just as Camilla IS The Princess of Wales but is styled as The Duchess of Cornwall.

and if.. all else fails... remember if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, you can baffle 'em with BS.

 

[MRSJ]

She's NOT a princess in her own right but she is HRH Princess Wiliam Duchess of Cambridge etc. She is styled as The Duchess of Cambridge.

But...Kate is not HRH Princess William so thus isn't just she isn't styled that way she just isn't .....

They've certainly comfuzzled/baffled me bc seems to me they'd say yes she is rank of Princess William but her title is Duchess but they seem to be saying she is not rank of Princess William.....but maybe I'm just not getting it- why does the palace have to be so confusing with titles?

 

[Osipi]

But...Kate is not HRH Princess William so thus isn't just she isn't styled that way she just isn't .....

They've certainly comfuzzled/baffled me bc seems to me they'd say yes she is rank of Princess William but her title is Duchess but they seem to be saying she is not rank of Princess William.....but maybe I'm just not getting it- why does the palace have to be so confusing with titles?

She is titled Princess William, The Duchess of Cambridge etc.. she is styled as HRH The Duchess of Cambridge. Just like I could be titled The Righteous Goddess Osipi of the Seven Cups of Betazed and Grand Pookahi of the Purple Grass of Beulah but styled as Goddess Osipi.

It would be very very odd if every time we talked about HM we would have to refer to all of her titles. If asked, I don't think I could do it to be honest. We could even refer to HM as the Duke!

I think this is what the palace is trying to say. Ok.. we know she's gonna be Princess Kate or Princess Catherine anyhoo.. the media will do that and it won't be a big nono if you call her that. I would think that for the normal Joe Jack in the street, giving a full explanation would really go over their head. Its definitely lost on the media. I just happen to hang out with the right folks that taught me... and here I'll stay.

 

[Susanna Wynne]

Someone in a previous post quoted the statement regarding the style/title at the time of her 1923 marriage of the Duchess of York (later Queen Elizabeth the QM) and it said she held the title of "HRH the Duchess of York" with the rank of a princess. Perhaps that is the way we should understand Kate's new title and style: "HRH the Duchess of Cambridge" with the rank of a princess... Ah, the BRF! The Scandinavians and Dutch make it so much easier!

 

[Osipi]

Someone in a previous post quoted the statement regarding the style/title at the time of her 1923 marriage of the Duchess of York (later Queen Elizabeth the QM) and it said she held the title of "HRH the Duchess of York" with the rank of a princess. Perhaps that is the way we should understand Kate's new title and style: "HRH the Duchess of Cambridge" with the rank of a princess... Ah, the BRF! The Scandinavians and Dutch make it so much easier!

I like that.

Reminds me of something I heard a long time ago about the friendship between Queen Victoria and Albert Einstein. From what I read, they had regular correspondence and Albert's salute in the letters was always "Dear Queen".

Kate can be The Duchess of Cambridge formally but I still call her Kate. William has been said to call her Mrs. Wales. And.. in the future, she'll be Mummy. I think the fuss has been what is her official style as per the court circular and formal documents which I think she'll use her style the Duchess of Cambridge.

Funny, watching the Oprah show yesterday, I KNOW I saw it in the closed captions that Sarah was referred to as the Duchess of York. I cringed.

 

[PrincePatrick]

Someone in a previous post quoted the statement regarding the style/title at the time of her 1923 marriage of the Duchess of York (later Queen Elizabeth the QM) and it said she held the title of "HRH the Duchess of York" with the rank of a princess. Perhaps that is the way we should understand Kate's new title and style: "HRH the Duchess of Cambridge" with the rank of a princess... Ah, the BRF! The Scandinavians and Dutch make it so much easier!

Perhaps it's different for Kate because she hasn't become the daughter-in-law of the Sovereign. I'm satisfied with her being an HRH... And the nickname "The Duchess" is just fierce as hell...

 

[PrincessKaimi]

I didn't see the word "the" on Oprah. Sarah, Duchess of York. That is, I believe, her proper title, is it not?

 

[PrincePatrick]

I didn't see the word "the" on Oprah. Sarah, Duchess of York. That is, I believe, her proper title, is it not?

Yes, she's now Sarah, Duchess of York.

 

[branchg]

But per the palace she is not HRH Princess William so thus she can not hold that rank- I get that she is styled by higher title but they seem to be saying she is not Princess William (not that she isn't titled that way but that she actually is not) thus she can't hold the rank of Princess/Prince..... is that what they're saying? Bc it really seems to be.....

I guess I am not understanding how if she is not HRH Princess William as a person then how can she still hold the rank of princess? The line was always she is a princess, princess William but now that seems to not be so....

So confused, please help?

The Palace is stating it is incorrect to refer to Sophie as "HRH The Princess Edward" or Catherine as "HRH Princess William" because they are the wives of Peers and appropriately titled as "HRH The Countess of Wessex" and "HRH The Duchess of Cambridge" upon marriage.

HRH Prince/Princess of the UK is a courtesy style, not a title in the Peerage. It signifes royal rank and place to The Sovereign by right of birth. Consistent with the practice that a wife takes the style and rank of her husband, they hold royal rank as a result of marriage to a son or male-line grandson of The Sovereign. But they take their titles after their husband's peerages.

They are "HRH Princess William" and "HRH The Princess Edward" in terms of being wives of Princes of the UK, but do not use this style as they have titles as The Countess of Wessex and The Duchess of Cambridge.

 

[MRSJ]

The Palace is stating it is incorrect to refer to Sophie as "HRH The Princess Edward" or Catherine as "HRH Princess William" because they are the wives of Peers and appropriately titled as "HRH The Countess of Wessex" and "HRH The Duchess of Cambridge" upon marriage.

HRH Prince/Princess of the UK is a style, not a title. It signifes royal rank and place to The Sovereign by right of birth. Consistent with the practice that a wife takes the style and rank of her husband, they hold royal rank as a result of marriage to a son or male-line grandson of The Sovereign. But they take their titles after their husband's peerages.

They are "HRH Princess William" and "HRH The Princess Edward" in terms of being wives of Princes of the UK, but do not use this style as they have titles as The Countess of Wessex and The Duchess of Cambridge.

Thank you for clarification

 

[ashelen]

now when he nad her got this new title Duke and duchess comes with more money and properties???????? it is any paper that show that title?

 

[ghost_night554]

This blog entry basically explains the exact same thing the palace is trying to tell us with the whole title/styles thing.
Royal Musings: Primer: Catherine is a princess ...

 

[HRHduchesskate]

I quite like the title of Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, I would have liked to see titled Princess but as William is second in line it's a very nice title.

 

[MRSJ]

Edit- ok I get it now, they have status of princess but not actual princesses (explain well per RR below) thanks everyone for explaining and bearing with me while I wrapped my mind around it!

''@RoyalUniverse Re this thing about having the status of a princess, when I've worked in combat zones, the Army has given me the status of a lieutenant, like all reporters. It doesn't mean I've ever been a lieutenant in the British Army.''

Get it! rank/status of princess but not a princess so technically we were wrong to say she is a Princess, Princess William bc per the palace she doesn't hold that title-.....like if I got married to John Smith and the day if the wedding he changed his name to John Jones, I wouldn't ever be Mrs John Smith I'd be Mrs John Jones but either way I still hold ''rank'' of his wife ......

''@JanetNorCal For the record,BP says Kate, Camilla, and Sophie are not princesses and the Queen Mother and Fergie never were.''


Per Royal Reporter-

 

[Iluvbertie]

now when he nad her got this new title Duke and duchess comes with more money and properties???????? it is any paper that show that title?

There is no property or money associated with this title.

I like that.

Reminds me of something I heard a long time ago about the friendship between Queen Victoria and Albert Einstein. From what I read, they had regular correspondence and Albert's salute in the letters was always "Dear Queen".

I must admit that I find it strange that they would have developed any sort of friendship as he was not quite 22 when she died.

Are you sure it was Victoria?

 

[Osipi]

I must admit that I find it strange that they would have developed any sort of friendship as he was not quite 22 when she died.

Are you sure it was Victoria?

I'm pretty sure it was but its been years since I read it and like most things in my memory, could have been filed in the wrong spot. I wish I could remember where I read it.

So I went searching. Boy was I off base. He was lifelong friends with Queen Elizabeth of Belgium. Now where did I get Victoria?? Ok.. back on topic we go.

 

[ghost_night554]

Another nice blog dealing with the controversial issue as to whether or not Kate is a princess.
Is Kate a Princess? | The Royal Universe

 

[Mia_mae]

"such as Camilla, Sarah, and the Queen Mother before her husband’s accession) and the Countess of Wessex also aren’t (or weren’t) princesses"

What? this just makes me even more confused

 

[Elspeth]

"such as Camilla, Sarah, and the Queen Mother before her husband’s accession) and the Countess of Wessex also aren’t (or weren’t) princesses"

What? this just makes me even more confused

Yes, well, you aren't the only one. A lot of people are confused by Buckingham Palace's insistence that the only actual princesses are the ones whose title says Princess. This means that the present Duchess of Gloucester would have been a princess during the couple of years before the old duke died and she was Princess Richard, but hasn't been a princess since her husband inherited the dukedom. And apparently Buckingham Palace has confirmed that William is still a prince, which makes their attitude toward Kate and the other duchesses seem very strange.

IMO there seems to be some tension between Buckingham Palace and Clarence House on this issue, as I said in the blog. It's been pretty widely reported that William wanted Kate to be known as Princess Catherine, and the Clarence House communications director seems to be encouraging the informal use of this title. In contrast, Buckingham Palace, reflecting the Queen's wish for William to accept a dukedom and not have Catherine be styled Princess anything, seems to be going to the other extreme.

It'll be interesting where they put Kate in any revised order of precedence. Andrew always preceded Edward, even when Andrew was a duke and Edward was a prince. And the Gloucesters (both of them) have always preceded the Michaels even though Princess Michael is a Princess and the Duchess of Gloucester, according to Buckingham Palace, isn't.

 

[MRSJ]

"such as Camilla, Sarah, and the Queen Mother before her husband’s accession) and the Countess of Wessex also aren’t (or weren’t) princesses"

What? this just makes me even more confused

Also at the Queen Mum's funeral when they read her titles they called her HRH Princess Elizabeth ...etc... So even more BS and confusion from BP

 

[MRSJ]

Another nice blog dealing with the controversial issue as to whether or not Kate is a princess.
Is Kate a Princess? | The Royal Universe

Well that about sums up the confusion.... Doesn't answer the question but lines up the issues nicely- BP should issue one statement saying she holds rank of Princess through her husband but is a Duchess not a Princess (or some such wording, whatever the truth is - VERY clearly)-

 

[texankitcat]

Well that about sums up the confusion.... Doesn't answer the question but lines up the issues nicely- BP should issue one statement saying she holds rank of Princess through her husband but is a Duchess not a Princess (or some such wording, whatever the truth is - VERY clearly)-

I have to wonder what it felt like the first time she heard herself referred to as Your Royal Highness.

 

[Osipi]

I have to wonder what it felt like the first time she heard herself referred to as Your Royal Highness.

If it was in a crowd of people, I bet she would have just smiled at him/her and said some generic thanks and smiled. I did a receiving line for my son's wedding and there were generic nice things to say to people I had NO clue who they were. I would imagine though that the first to call her that were the footmen helping her into the carriage to go back to BP. (other than people she knew)

 

[Mia_mae]

I have to wonder what it felt like the first time she heard herself referred to as Your Royal Highness.

"Mine? Oh yes, I guess you can say that since he's my husband now"