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  #141  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:54 PM
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I figured you guys would find all of the misinformation in this article amusing

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  #142  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:55 PM
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William's eldest son (even if not his first-born) would be HRH Prince X of Cambridge, assuming The Queen does not issue Letters Patent elevating all of his children to HRH.

If William becomes Duke of Cornwall, his children would then be styled as "HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall and Cambridge" until he is created Prince of Wales by his father, at which point they would be "of Wales".

If William's father predeceases him, his children would be "of Cambridge and Edinburgh" since William would become The Duke of Cambridge and Edinburgh if Philip has passed on. The Queen would then create him Prince of Wales as the new heir to the throne.
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  #143  
Old 04-30-2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post
Camebridge isn't what I guessed (that would be Sussex ) but I still like it. I like the other titles as well. I can see Her Majesty issuing a letter's patient to allow their children princely status. What would be the point of them being Lord/Lady as small children, when one of them will one day be The Sovereign?

I'm hoping The Duke and The Duchess have only boys, only girls, or a boy then a girl. It would be so unfortunate if they were to have a girl then a boy, and the girl were to miss out on being Queen by that much, because of what a long process it will be to put equal primogeniture in place. I hope that Parliament is still working on it regardless, but it will be a great shame if it is put into place, only to be of no use to the little Camebridge Princess because her baby Brother has already been born.
Personally I'm really hoping their first child will be a boy, as having a girl first will probably force the Parliament to try to change the succession law--and from previous discussions over the years, doing that would only open a can of worms that can produce unforeseeable and unintended consequences to the whole Commonwealth. And there are at least one or two Commonwealth countries where it is virtually impossible to change the succession (like Canada?).

While I'm all for equal primogeniture, it just doesn't seem to be worth the effort or risk, especially for a position that doesn't have much political impact. And the Duke of Cambridge will probably be around for a long time (50-60+ years), so it'll be a long time before his child (either first-born or his first son) would ascend the Throne.
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  #144  
Old 04-30-2011, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There would be no need to make it retroactive. They simply say that from the great-grandchildren of the Queen it will be gender neutral - with no impact on earlier generations.

They could also take the opportunity to limit the succession to the descendents of Elizabeth or even Charles. If they really want a smaller royal family then this is a quick way to do it - descendents of Charles means the Yorks, Wessexes etc cease to be royal when Charles becomes King (and before anyone suggests that a person can cease to be royal - I would say if they can become royal they can cease to be royal).
Actually what I would do is to set the new "root" ancestor to be King George V or at the very least King George VI, so to ensure that there will be enough eligible descendants available just in case the worst happens. From looking though various Dukedoms in past history, it seems a lot of the Dukedom creations don't last past 2 or 3 generations, but once they last more than 3 or 4 generations, then they're likely to be around for the long term, because there are always enough eligible descendants.
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  #145  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:11 PM
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From: The Prince of Wales - Biography
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The Duchess of Cambridge married The Duke of Cambridge on 29th April 2011 at Westminster Abbey. The other official titles given to the couple by The Queen on their wedding day, are The Earl and Lady of Strathearn and The Baron and Countess of Carrickfergus.
Hee hee, funny typo on the POW website...should be Earl and Countess...and Baron and Lady...

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  #146  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:13 PM
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Im already used to calling them the Duke and Duchess. It does sound a little old though. So when they are say in Scotland they would be addressed as TRH Earl and Countess Strathearn and in Ireland TRH Baron and Baroness right? I think its absolutely fabulous for them. They are a new beginning for the Monarchy and I cant wait to see what happens in the future. I wonder if they will work on kids soon or if they will wait.
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  #147  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
I wonder if they will work on kids soon or if they will wait.
I have the feeling that they waited as long as they did until they were 1) sure Catherine would be ready to face the Royal life and 2) ready to have kids. If they waited, then they'd be under pressure to have kids.

Personally I'd have just waited a few years and use these years to be just a couple, before having kids. But it may be different for a Royal couple though, especially for a couple that are as visible as they are.
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  #148  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
Im already used to calling them the Duke and Duchess. It does sound a little old though. So when they are say in Scotland they would be addressed as TRH Earl and Countess Strathearn and in Ireland TRH Baron and Baroness right? I think its absolutely fabulous for them. They are a new beginning for the Monarchy and I cant wait to see what happens in the future. I wonder if they will work on kids soon or if they will wait.
After the symbolism used during the wedding, I'm willing to bet my last doughnut that if and when they do start to have children, they'll be referred to as "little acorns".
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  #149  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
William's eldest son (even if not his first-born) would be HRH Prince X of Cambridge, assuming The Queen does not issue Letters Patent elevating all of his children to HRH.

If William becomes Duke of Cornwall, his children would then be styled as "HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall and Cambridge" until he is created Prince of Wales by his father, at which point they would be "of Wales".

If William's father predeceases him, his children would be "of Cambridge and Edinburgh" since William would become The Duke of Cambridge and Edinburgh if Philip has passed on. The Queen would then create him Prince of Wales as the new heir to the throne.
I was under the impression that Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, will be created Duke of Edinburgh upon his father's death.
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  #150  
Old 04-30-2011, 04:15 PM
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That can't happen until the Dukedom of Edinburgh "merges in the crown" (the holder and the King are the same person), which can't happen until both Prince Philip and the Queen are dead.
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  #151  
Old 04-30-2011, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by snowhite View Post
I was under the impression that Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, will be created Duke of Edinburgh upon his father's death.
Yes, but only after the Queen also pass away and Prince Charles (or Prince William if Prince Charles predeceased the Queen) becomes King. At that point the Dukedom of Edinburgh merge with the Crown and goes extinct. At that point the new King can recreate the Dukedom for Prince Edward. That's the family agreement they have at this point. There are few complications though, and they're covered in another thread at the top level of the British Royalty forum here at TRF.
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  #152  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by PrincePatrick View Post
So if their first child is a son and is titled His Royal Highness Prince (George, Charles, William...) of Cambridge...what happens say if Charles becomes King and then makes William the Prince of Wales, does the son then become HRH Prince X of Wales or does he stay Cambridge his whole life?
A child's titular designation changes with his/her father's. Right now, William and Catherine's eldest son will be HRH Prince X of Cambridge. All other children will be Lord/Lady X Mountbatten-Windsor as male-line descendents of the Queen without a princely status. Once Charles is King, all of their children become HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall and Cambridge as male-line grandchildren of the sovereign. If William is invested as the Prince of Wales, his children will then be HRH Prince/Princess X of Wales. When William is King, they will be HRH The Prince/Princess X.

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Originally Posted by Lady Gudgeon View Post
From: The Prince of Wales - Biography
Hee hee, funny typo on the POW website...should be Earl and Countess...and Baron and Lady...
She is not Lady Carrickfergus, she is Baroness Carrickfergus. The wife of a baron is a baroness.

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Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
Im already used to calling them the Duke and Duchess. It does sound a little old though. So when they are say in Scotland they would be addressed as TRH Earl and Countess Strathearn and in Ireland TRH Baron and Baroness right? I think its absolutely fabulous for them. They are a new beginning for the Monarchy and I cant wait to see what happens in the future. I wonder if they will work on kids soon or if they will wait.
They are the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge everywhere, regardless where they are. That would only change once Charles is King, and William is Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay.
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  #153  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
She is not Lady Carrickfergus, she is Baroness Carrickfergus. The wife of a baron is a baroness.
"Lady" is an acceptable style for a baroness. Lord and lady are used pretty much interchangeably with baron and baroness. (It's also acceptable, although less frequent the higher up you go, for everyone up to a marquess and marchioness.)

ETA: I think lord and lady are actually the most widely-used style for barons and baronesses.

ETA2: Debrett's says that "The fifth degree of the Peerage, baron is always referred to, both verbally and in correspondence, as Lord (Poole) rather than Baron (Poole). The title baron is never used, except in formal or legal documents...The wife of a baron is known as Lady (Poole)."
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  #154  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Royal_Eagle View Post
I have the feeling that they waited as long as they did until they were 1) sure Catherine would be ready to face the Royal life and 2) ready to have kids. If they waited, then they'd be under pressure to have kids.

Personally I'd have just waited a few years and use these years to be just a couple, before having kids. But it may be different for a Royal couple though, especially for a couple that are as visible as they are.
True. There will be a lot of pressure to have kids pretty soon. Ever seen that Spitting Image skit about Andrew and Sarah "struggling to have a baby" ? Beatrice was born a fortnight after their second anniversary. This isn't a very large gap, but given that they were in the Windsor fishowl, with people wanting to see the next chapter, infertility was disgustingly suspected and joked about.

I don't envy The Camebridges in that sense.
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  #155  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
After the symbolism used during the wedding, I'm willing to bet my last doughnut that if and when they do start to have children, they'll be referred to as "little acorns".
I think acorns will be on the label argents of their coats of arms. I hope it's done in a more creative way that William's and Henry's scallops were, though (just one for William and three for Harry ) I'm hoping that crosses and/or hearts will be incorporated as well. Long time to wait, though
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  #156  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post
I hope it's done in a more creative way that William's and Henry's scallops were, though (just one for William and three for Harry )

As the eldest son of the PoW, William has a label of three points on his coat of arms, whereas Harry gets five as the grandchild of the monarch in the male line. When Charles is King, Harry will get three as the son of the monarch and then will continue to have three for the rest of his life.

Quote:
As the eldest son of the Prince of Wales, Prince William's coat of arms has a label of three points
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As the grandchild of the sovereign, Prince Harry's coat of arms has a label of five points.
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  #157  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:50 PM
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Couldn't the Queen re-create the Duke of Edinburgh once Prince Philip dies? While it is true that she would still be Duchess of Edinburgh, she would also have the Duchal title, as Monarch - so if she wished to re-create it, could she not? Or is that the one thing she can't do with titles (renounce or give up one that she has)? If so, I'm not getting it, because I thought "merging with the Crown" meant that the title belonged to the Monarch, to do with as they wish.
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  #158  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:54 PM
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If Prince Philip predeceases the Queen, then Charles will immediately become the Duke of Edinburgh. The title descends to heirs male like most other peerages. The title doesn't merge with the crown until the holder of the title and the monarch are the same person.

I don't think there's actually any true legal impediment to having two dukedoms with the same name and different holders, but the intent is for a new dukedom to be created for Edward "when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown."
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  #159  
Old 04-30-2011, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post

I don't envy The Camebridges in that sense.
The Cambridges . I like that!

I still can't refer to them as Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. Will and Kate was so much more easy to type ! The only thing now is that I used "Catherine" here in the forum, but Duchess will be a while to get used to!
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  #160  
Old 05-01-2011, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
If Prince Philip predeceases the Queen, then Charles will immediately become the Duke of Edinburgh. The title descends to heirs male like most other peerages. The title doesn't merge with the crown until the holder of the title and the monarch are the same person.

I don't think there's actually any true legal impediment to having two dukedoms with the same name and different holders, but the intent is for a new dukedom to be created for Edward "when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown."
Gotcha. Doh. Makes a lot of sense, emotionally too (I do wonder about those two dear old people and how one will ever get on without the other, they've been together a long, long time).
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