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  #121  
Old 04-29-2011, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
That would only happen if William died before becoming King. The dukedom will merge into the crown when (and if) he succeeds.
But King William would then be free to give the title to his son immediately. It would partly make up for the fact that if they change the laws of succession that his son would not become the monarch.
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  #122  
Old 04-29-2011, 11:14 PM
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Camebridge isn't what I guessed (that would be Sussex ) but I still like it. I like the other titles as well. I can see Her Majesty issuing a letter's patient to allow their children princely status. What would be the point of them being Lord/Lady as small children, when one of them will one day be The Sovereign?

I'm hoping The Duke and The Duchess have only boys, only girls, or a boy then a girl. It would be so unfortunate if they were to have a girl then a boy, and the girl were to miss out on being Queen by that much, because of what a long process it will be to put equal primogeniture in place. I hope that Parliament is still working on it regardless, but it will be a great shame if it is put into place, only to be of no use to the little Camebridge Princess because her baby Brother has already been born.
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  #123  
Old 04-29-2011, 11:15 PM
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Can you give an example of when this happened? Many times a noble is referred to simply by the geographical entity in his title (ie Wellington in place of the Duke of Wellington) so it would be confusing to have both a Duke of Cambridge and a Marquess of Cambridge. Thus I think the Cambridge title had to become extinct before it could be used again.
Queen Victoria created her son, The Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany and Earl of Clarence. She then created Clarence again as a Dukedom, together with Avondale, for her eldest male-line grandson, Prince Albert Victor, as Duke of Clarence & Avondale.

So, it can happen that a title is re-created as a different degree of a Peerage while still being extant for another.
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  #124  
Old 04-29-2011, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post
Camebridge isn't what I guessed (that would be Sussex ) but I still like it. I like the other titles as well. I can see Her Majesty issuing a letter's patient to allow their children princely status. What would be the point of them being Lord/Lady as small children, when one of them will one day be The Sovereign.

I'm hoping The Duke and The Duchess have only boys, only girls, or a boy then a girl. It would be so unfortunate if they were to have a girl then a boy, and the girl were to miss out on being Queen by that much, because of what a long process it will be to put equal primogeniture in place. I hope that Parliament is still working on it regardless, but it will be a great shame if it is put into place, only to be of no use to the little Camebridge Princess because her baby Brother has already been born.

The law might take a couple of years or so to get through but it can be done after the younger brother is born - as happened in Sweden.

I hope they only have boys actually as the pressure on a 'Princess Diana' to live up to the dead grandmother would be overwhelming and could actually damage psychologically the child.
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  #125  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:52 AM
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I have a question, I know that Kate is now the Duchess of Cambridge now but all over the TV and even online people keep refering to her as Princess Catherine, is that correct? I thought she could not be referred to as Princess Catherine as she is not a princess in her own right, could someone please clear this up for me.
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  #126  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:56 AM
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Sorry I just looked back a couple of pages and I think I got my answer.
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  #127  
Old 04-30-2011, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Vesper1987 View Post
I have a question, I know that Kate is now the Duchess of Cambridge now but all over the TV and even online people keep refering to her as Princess Catherine, is that correct? I thought she could not be referred to as Princess Catherine as she is not a princess in her own right, could someone please clear this up for me.

She is not Princess Catherine. Diana was also never Princess Diana.

She is however a princess - Princess William.
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  #128  
Old 04-30-2011, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The law might take a couple of years or so to get through but it can be done after the younger brother is born - as happened in Sweden.

I hope they only have boys actually as the pressure on a 'Princess Diana' to live up to the dead grandmother would be overwhelming and could actually damage psychologically the child.
The change to equal primogeniture, could be retroactive in Sweden, because Victoria and Carl Philip were effectively the only two people in the line of succession. Britain, on the other hand, has over two thousand people in it's line of succession, which isn't actually necessary, but it's a nice genealogical record to keep. This would make things complicated, if the change was to be made retroactive.

As for Princess/Queen Diana, I would hate that for the reasons you mentioned. But I don't fear it alot, given how William said that no one would be filling his Mother's shoes. Have he and Kate expressed any desire to call a Daughter Diana? I know what he said about giving her back her HRH, but that was said in the belief that she would still be alive when he was King.
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  #129  
Old 04-30-2011, 02:53 AM
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Why is she Princess William and not Princess Kate? Can people actually refer to her as Princess William? That's a bit weird to me.
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  #130  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
Why is she Princess William and not Princess Kate? Can people actually refer to her as Princess William? That's a bit weird to me.

In Britain only princesses born as princesses are princess own name.

The wife takes the styles and titles of her husband so the wife of Prince Charles is Princess Charles, the wife of Prince Andrew is Princess Andrew, the wife of Prince Edward is Princess Edward etc. As a result Kate isn't Princess Catherine but Princess William - just as Diana was never Princess Diana - and would correct people who called her Princess Diana.

Simply put - it is the British way - old fashioned and traditional.

Even a Princess born in another country isn't a Princess own name of the UK so Philip's mother - born Princess Alice of Battenburg, married as Princess Alice of Greece and Denmark but in Britain was Princess Andrew.
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  #131  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post
The change to equal primogeniture, could be retroactive in Sweden, because Victoria and Carl Philip were effectively the only two people in the line of succession. Britain, on the other hand, has over two thousand people in it's line of succession, which isn't actually necessary, but it's a nice genealogicla record to keep. This would make things complicated, if the change was to be made retroactive.

As for Princess/Queen Diana, I would hate that for the reasons you mentioned. But I don't fear it alot, given how William said that no one would be filling his Mother's shoes. Have he and Kate expressed any desire to call a Daughter Diana? I know what he said about giving her back her HRH, but that was said in the belief that she would still be alive when he was King.

There would be no need to make it retroactive. They simply say that from the great-grandchildren of the Queen it will be gender neutral - with no impact on earlier generations.

They could also take the opportunity to limit the succession to the descendents of Elizabeth or even Charles. If they really want a smaller royal family then this is a quick way to do it - descendents of Charles means the Yorks, Wessexes etc cease to be royal when Charles becomes King (and before anyone suggests that a person can cease to be royal - I would say if they can become royal they can cease to be royal).
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  #132  
Old 04-30-2011, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

In Britain only princesses born as princesses are princess own name.

The wife takes the styles and titles of her husband so the wife of Prince Charles is Princess Charles, the wife of Prince Andrew is Princess Andrew, the wife of Prince Edward is Princess Edward etc. As a result Kate isn't Princess Catherine but Princess William - just as Diana was never Princess Diana - and would correct people who called her Princess Diana.

Simply put - it is the British way - old fashioned and traditional.

Even a Princess born in another country isn't a Princess own name of the UK so Philip's mother - born Princess Alice of Battenburg, married as Princess Alice of Greece and Denmark but in Britain was Princess Andrew.
Thanks:)
That all makes sense.
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  #133  
Old 04-30-2011, 04:34 AM
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why didnt the queen make her princess william of wales? why a duchess??
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  #134  
Old 04-30-2011, 04:56 AM
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cd_1, The Queen didn't need to make Catherine into Princess William because marriage already did that.

It's sort of like promotion. Being Prince William of Wales was a title he held through his father. He is now Prince William, The Duke of Cambridge, Earl of... etc

William uses the highest of his titles, which is Duke. Catherine uses the highest too, which is Duchess.
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  #135  
Old 04-30-2011, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by cd_1 View Post
why didnt the queen make her princess william of wales? why a duchess??

As the wife of a prince Catherine is now a princess (yes Camilla, Sophie, Sarah, Diana etc all became Princesses when they married) but if the male has an actual peerage they don't use Prince as their title anymore but use the peerage.

Catherine is Princess William but...the Queen promoted William by making him a Duke and so Catherine became a Duchess - but now of Cambridge not 'of Wales'. Just like the present Queen became a Duchess on her wedding day - and was referred to as the Duchess of Edinburgh officially and not Princess Elizabeth from her wedding day until her accession.

Probably the best way to show the ranks of things is to look at the Kents.

If Prince is higher than Duke then Prince Michael would rank above his older brother, the Duke but... the Duke was born Prince Edward and was 'raised to the peerage' on the death of his father.

It is also worth noting that yesterday William went from being a royal commoner to an actual noble. What made the change - getting a title in his own right. Until yesterday William could have stood for or voted for the pre-1999 House of Commons but now as a peer of the realm he couldn't have done so. I have never quite got my head around who decides who now sits in the House of Lords. Catherine - entered the Abbey as a common commoner and left it as a royal commoner as she doesn't have a title in her own right - Catherine could still stand for election to the House of Commons (she won't of course but that is because it isn't the done thing but legally she is still able to do so - she has also voted for the last time).

Before people say they don't understand or shoot me down, in Britain only the actual title holder is a noble and everyone else is a commoner so most of the royal family are actually commoners as are most aristocrats. Within the royal family the following are nobles - The Dukes of Edinburgh, Cornwall, Cambridge, York, Gloucester and Kent and the Earl of Wessex. All the rest of the family are actually commoners - royal commoners but still commoners. Diana was an aristocrat's daughter and from and aristocratic family but she herself wasn't an aristocrat - her father was and he brother is but the rest of her family are still commoners. It is technical I know.
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  #136  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There would be no need to make it retroactive. They simply say that from the great-grandchildren of the Queen it will be gender neutral - with no impact on earlier generations.

They could also take the opportunity to limit the succession to the descendents of Elizabeth or even Charles. If they really want a smaller royal family then this is a quick way to do it - descendents of Charles means the Yorks, Wessexes etc cease to be royal when Charles becomes King (and before anyone suggests that a person can cease to be royal - I would say if they can become royal they can cease to be royal).
The great Grandchildren solution would be a good idea, and as for everyone who is not a descendant of the Queen, it could be a beyond this point deal. On the issue of a smaller Royal Family, not everyone in the line of succession is a member of The Royal Family, and not everyone in the RF is in the line of succession, but it's reasonable to assume that a downsizing of The Royal Family would come with a downsizing of the line of succession. I hope these two things don't happen, though

Time to get back on topic. I take full responsibility for the tangent
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  #137  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:05 AM
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are there money included in this dukedom as in charles dukedom as a income?
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  #138  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:39 AM
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are there money included in this dukedom as in charles dukedom as a income?

No.

Only the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall (of the royal dukedoms) have income.

Other Dukedoms have money but that is because of the way they were set up in the past e.g. the Duke of Marlborough was given the land around Blenheim Palace as part of the thank you from the nation.

There is no land or income producing property associate with the Cambridge title.
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  #139  
Old 04-30-2011, 12:49 PM
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So if their first child is a son and is titled His Royal Highness Prince (George, Charles, William...) of Cambridge...what happens say if Charles becomes King and then makes William the Prince of Wales, does the son then become HRH Prince X of Wales or does he stay Cambridge his whole life?
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  #140  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:31 PM
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So if their first child is a son and is titled His Royal Highness Prince (George, Charles, William...) of Cambridge...what happens say if Charles becomes King and then makes William the Prince of Wales, does the son then become HRH Prince X of Wales or does he stay Cambridge his whole life?
I would imagine it would be the same as it is now with William and Harry being sons of the Prince of Wales. He would become HRH Prince X of Wales.
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