Prince William Created Duke of Cambridge: April 29, 2011

[Royal_Eagle]

I was under the impression that Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, will be created Duke of Edinburgh upon his father's death.

Yes, but only after the Queen also pass away and Prince Charles (or Prince William if Prince Charles predeceased the Queen) becomes King. At that point the Dukedom of Edinburgh merge with the Crown and goes extinct. At that point the new King can recreate the Dukedom for Prince Edward. That's the family agreement they have at this point. There are few complications though, and they're covered in another thread at the top level of the British Royalty forum here at TRF.

 

[Sister Morphine]

So if their first child is a son and is titled His Royal Highness Prince (George, Charles, William...) of Cambridge...what happens say if Charles becomes King and then makes William the Prince of Wales, does the son then become HRH Prince X of Wales or does he stay Cambridge his whole life?

A child's titular designation changes with his/her father's. Right now, William and Catherine's eldest son will be HRH Prince X of Cambridge. All other children will be Lord/Lady X Mountbatten-Windsor as male-line descendents of the Queen without a princely status. Once Charles is King, all of their children become HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall and Cambridge as male-line grandchildren of the sovereign. If William is invested as the Prince of Wales, his children will then be HRH Prince/Princess X of Wales. When William is King, they will be HRH The Prince/Princess X.

From: The Prince of Wales - Biography
Hee hee, funny typo on the POW website...should be Earl and Countess...and Baron and Lady...

She is not Lady Carrickfergus, she is Baroness Carrickfergus. The wife of a baron is a baroness.

Im already used to calling them the Duke and Duchess. It does sound a little old though. So when they are say in Scotland they would be addressed as TRH Earl and Countess Strathearn and in Ireland TRH Baron and Baroness right? I think its absolutely fabulous for them. They are a new beginning for the Monarchy and I cant wait to see what happens in the future. I wonder if they will work on kids soon or if they will wait.

They are the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge everywhere, regardless where they are. That would only change once Charles is King, and William is Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay.

 

[wbenson]

She is not Lady Carrickfergus, she is Baroness Carrickfergus. The wife of a baron is a baroness.

"Lady" is an acceptable style for a baroness. Lord and lady are used pretty much interchangeably with baron and baroness. (It's also acceptable, although less frequent the higher up you go, for everyone up to a marquess and marchioness.)

ETA: I think lord and lady are actually the most widely-used style for barons and baronesses.

ETA2: Debrett's says that "The fifth degree of the Peerage, baron is always referred to, both verbally and in correspondence, as Lord (Poole) rather than Baron (Poole). The title baron is never used, except in formal or legal documents...The wife of a baron is known as Lady (Poole)."

 

[Duchess of Darwin]

I have the feeling that they waited as long as they did until they were 1) sure Catherine would be ready to face the Royal life and 2) ready to have kids. If they waited, then they'd be under pressure to have kids.

Personally I'd have just waited a few years and use these years to be just a couple, before having kids. But it may be different for a Royal couple though, especially for a couple that are as visible as they are.

True. There will be a lot of pressure to have kids pretty soon. Ever seen that Spitting Image skit about Andrew and Sarah "struggling to have a baby" ? Beatrice was born a fortnight after their second anniversary. This isn't a very large gap, but given that they were in the Windsor fishowl, with people wanting to see the next chapter, infertility was disgustingly suspected and joked about.

I don't envy The Camebridges in that sense.

 

[Duchess of Darwin]

After the symbolism used during the wedding, I'm willing to bet my last doughnut that if and when they do start to have children, they'll be referred to as "little acorns".

I think acorns will be on the label argents of their coats of arms. I hope it's done in a more creative way that William's and Henry's scallops were, though (just one for William and three for Harry ) I'm hoping that crosses and/or hearts will be incorporated as well. Long time to wait, though

 

[Sister Morphine]

I hope it's done in a more creative way that William's and Henry's scallops were, though (just one for William and three for Harry )

As the eldest son of the PoW, William has a label of three points on his coat of arms, whereas Harry gets five as the grandchild of the monarch in the male line. When Charles is King, Harry will get three as the son of the monarch and then will continue to have three for the rest of his life.

As the eldest son of the Prince of Wales, Prince William's coat of arms has a label of three points

As the grandchild of the sovereign, Prince Harry's coat of arms has a label of five points.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Couldn't the Queen re-create the Duke of Edinburgh once Prince Philip dies? While it is true that she would still be Duchess of Edinburgh, she would also have the Duchal title, as Monarch - so if she wished to re-create it, could she not? Or is that the one thing she can't do with titles (renounce or give up one that she has)? If so, I'm not getting it, because I thought "merging with the Crown" meant that the title belonged to the Monarch, to do with as they wish.

 

[wbenson]

If Prince Philip predeceases the Queen, then Charles will immediately become the Duke of Edinburgh. The title descends to heirs male like most other peerages. The title doesn't merge with the crown until the holder of the title and the monarch are the same person.

I don't think there's actually any true legal impediment to having two dukedoms with the same name and different holders, but the intent is for a new dukedom to be created for Edward "when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown."

 

[Mia_mae]

I don't envy The Camebridges in that sense.

The Cambridges . I like that!

I still can't refer to them as Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. Will and Kate was so much more easy to type ! The only thing now is that I used "Catherine" here in the forum, but Duchess will be a while to get used to!

 

[PrincessKaimi]

If Prince Philip predeceases the Queen, then Charles will immediately become the Duke of Edinburgh. The title descends to heirs male like most other peerages. The title doesn't merge with the crown until the holder of the title and the monarch are the same person.

I don't think there's actually any true legal impediment to having two dukedoms with the same name and different holders, but the intent is for a new dukedom to be created for Edward "when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown."

Gotcha. Doh. Makes a lot of sense, emotionally too (I do wonder about those two dear old people and how one will ever get on without the other, they've been together a long, long time).

 

[Duchess of Darwin]

As the eldest son of the PoW, William has a label of three points on his coat of arms, whereas Harry gets five as the grandchild of the monarch in the male line. When Charles is King, Harry will get three as the son of the monarch and then will continue to have three for the rest of his life.

Thanks for that fact. I knew about children of The Sovereign (along with the eldest Son of The Prince of Wales) getting three points while Male line Grandchildren get five, but I was under the impression that Henry would have five for life, having been given his arms whilst a Male line Grandchild, and not become The Duke of Cornwall, The Prince of Wales, or The Sovereign. It makes sense, though, that he will aquire three when Charles becomes King.

 

[Duchess of Darwin]

The Cambridges . I like that!

I still can't refer to them as Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. Will and Kate was so much more easy to type ! The only thing now is that I used "Catherine" here in the forum, but Duchess will be a while to get used to!

Glad you like The Camebridges.

It's not the name I will always use for them, though. I'll alternate. I'm too fussy to use Will and Kate myself but it's still fine.

 

[soapstar]

William wants his wife to be known as "Princess Catherine".

'Although the Prince's spokesman said he was "honoured" to become the Duke of Cambridge, he had let it be known that he would prefer to remain Prince William and for his wife to become "Princess Catherine''.'

Royal wedding: new bride Kate Middleton takes her place in the Royal hierarchy - Telegraph

 

[MRSJ]

William wants his wife to be known as "Princess Catherine".

'Although the Prince's spokesman said he was "honoured" to become the Duke of Cambridge, he had let it be known that he would prefer to remain Prince William and for his wife to become "Princess Catherine''.'

Royal wedding: new bride Kate Middleton takes her place in the Royal hierarchy - Telegraph

Well,well,well..... These are quotes? So the public is encouraged to call her Princesd Catherine? Interesting.....ok, then let's all agree if someone posts about her and calls her Princess Catherine we don't need correction posts.....?

Is this official we can call her Princess Catherine if we desire?

 

[Sister Morphine]

While I applaud William for wanting his wife to carry an equal title to his own, Catherine's title is completely at the discretion of the Queen, and the Queen saw fit not to make her a princess in her own right. Maybe Charles once he's king would do that, I don't know.

I do like the fact that William and Catherine are making small strides to modernize the monarchy, little by little. An institution as well-known as the BRF can't change overnight.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Well,well,well..... These are quotes? So the public is encouraged to call her Princesd Catherine? Interesting.....ok, then let's all agree if someone posts about her and calls her Princess Catherine we don't need correction posts.....?

Is this official we can call her Princess Catherine if we desire?

No, it's not official. There's no direct quotes from William anywhere, just a remark by his "offical spokesman". I don't believe anything unless it comes from the person's mouth, not a hired mouthpiece. As I said earlier, while I applaud William for wanting his wife to be equally styled to himself, the Queen is the one who makes the decisions on who is styled in what way, and she did not make her a princess in her own right, so it would be totally incorrect to refer to her that way, even if people are going to do it anyway. At least people here should know better than random people who don't follow royalty.

Catherine's title is HRH Princess William Arthur Philip Louis, Duchess of Cambridge, Countess of Strathearn, Lady Carrickfergus. She is not, nor will she be any time soon, HRH Princess Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, etc,.

 

[MRSJ]

No, it's not official. There's no direct quotes from William anywhere, just a remark by his "offical spokesman". I don't believe anything unless it comes from the person's mouth, not a hired mouthpiece. As I said earlier, while I applaud William for wanting his wife to be equally styled to himself, the Queen is the one who makes the decisions on who is styled in what way, and she did not make her a princess in her own right, so it would be totally incorrect to refer to her that way, even if people are going to do it anyway. At least people here should know better than random people who don't follow royalty.

Catherine's title is HRH Princess William Arthur Philip Louis, Duchess of Cambridge, Countess of Strathearn, Lady Carrickfergus. She is not, nor will she be any time soon, HRH Princess Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, etc,.

Ok..... I figured it wasn't official, I just keep wanting to correct people (on othe boards and articles) but then thinking does it really matter? And decide it's easier to just not worry about what press/people call her I am just sticking with the Duchess of Cambridge or Catherine......

 

[soapstar]

Paddy is the official communications secretary, so would he really be making these statements without William's approval?

 

[Jacknch]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but am I right in thinking that William will now be known as William Cambridge at work - as he was William Wales?

For me, the main thing about the new title is that to everyone the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge know closely, they will still be simply be William and Catherine. So for them it's not such an "identity change" as it is for us!

One day, William and Catherine will be the Prince and Princess of Wales and when that day comes, I shall probably start refering to Catherine as Princess Catherine, just as a nickname really.

So now, the main members of the royal family are:

The Queen
The Duke of Edinburgh
The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge
Prince Henry of Wales.

 

[Osipi]

Ok..... I figured it wasn't official, I just keep wanting to correct people (on othe boards and articles) but then thinking does it really matter? And decide it's easier to just not worry about what press/people call her I am just sticking with the Duchess of Cambridge or Catherine......

I think that right now the new title that Kate has that she's probably enjoying the most is simply "wife". I am finding it hard to get away from calling her Kate and I think it will most likely remain that as a couple they will be referred to as William and Kate informally.

 

[MRSJ]

Since Paddy is the official communications secretary, would he really be making these statements without William's approval?

Sorry, I should have been clearer in my post- I didn't mean official like her name is now officially Princess Catherine....which as Sister pointed out only the Queen can do but yes I believe William had ''ofiicially'' said he is ok with the public calling her Princess Catherine which I suppose does count for something though on official stuff it doesn't matter.....that why I was worried we'd get a lot of correction posts if someone does call her Princess Catherine on our threads .....

I think that right now the new title that Kate has that she's probably enjoying the most is simply "wife"..

Agreed, and that IMO is lovely and romantic ......and exactly how I felt......

 

[texankitcat]

Well,well,well..... These are quotes? So the public is encouraged to call her Princesd Catherine? Interesting.....ok, then let's all agree if someone posts about her and calls her Princess Catherine we don't need correction posts.....?

Is this official we can call her Princess Catherine if we desire?

I can't find anything mentioned on the BP or CH websites, so I would say it is not official. The Queen has already given them 3 titles. I don't see her encouraging anyone to refer to her as Princess Catherine. If she wanted her to be known as such, she would have done something about it prior to the wedding.

I do see they have her listed on both the BP and CH websites as Duchess of Cambridge with her new coat of arms and Royal seal. That was quick!

 

[MRSJ]

I can't find anything mentioned on the BP or CH websites, so I would say it is not official. The Queen has already given them 3 titles. I don't see her encouraging anyone to refer to her as Princess Catherine. If she wanted her to be known as such, she would have done something about it prior to the wedding.

I do see they have her listed on both the BP and CH websites as Duchess of Cambridge with her new coat of arms and Royal seal. That was quick!

I should have clarified, I meant unofficially official from Prince William and not made up by the press......

Edit- Hello magazine says that the spokesperson said '' no one will argue'' if she is refeared to as Princess Catherine in the press....so that's exactly what we thought would happen....she has official title, the press will call her Princess Kate/Catherine, and no statement will be issued correcting it

 

[soapstar]

Sorry, I should have been clearer in my post- I didn't mean official like her name is now officially Princess Catherine....which as Sister pointed out only the Queen can do but yes I believe William had ''ofiicially'' said he is ok with the public calling her Princess Catherine which I suppose does count for something though on official stuff it doesn't matter.....that why I was worried we'd get a lot of correction posts if someone does call her Princess Catherine on our threads .....

Got it.

Yeah, officially she's not Princess Catherine, but it seems that's the title William would like for her to be known by.

 

[Skippy]

Got it.

Yeah, officially she's not Princess Catherine, but it seems that's the title William would like for her to be known by.

Aha, so unofficially she will most probably be Princess Catherine and no one will make an issue about it. In the Netherlands we call that "in de volksmond". Literally translated "in the people's mouths".

Is this unofficial endorsement unprecedented?

 

[ladongas]

The spokesman said 'no one will argue' if she's referred to as Princess Catherine

It's pretty obvious he is not familiar with the posters on this board!

 

[Susanna Wynne]

The Telegraph article about how Catherine will be addressed.

Here's the quote from the Telegraph:

After Friday's Royal wedding, Paddy Harverson, the Prince of Wales' communications secretary, suggested the public be encouraged to use the names Prince William and Princess Catherine if they preferred.
He said: "I think it's absolutely natural that the public might want to call them Prince William and Princess Catherine and no one is going to have any argument with that."
Fears of offending Prince Charles' second wife and demoting her in the Royal hierarchy apparently led to the decision not to make Prince William's bride a Princess.

Especially since this if from Paddy Harverson, the Prince of Wales' communications secretary, this must be true. It probably won't appear on the royal.gov website because it is unofficial. I read that, whatever the queen did, some noses would be out of joint. But I also read that "whatever William wants, William gets." So I guess that everyone, every paper, when she is introduced and referred to, it is going to be Princess Catherine. When she is listed on official palace communications, it will be "The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge." But she won't "officially" be a princess, which would be a light to the Duchess of Cornwall. Ah, palace intrigue...

 

[Skippy]

It's pretty obvious he is not familiar with the posters on this board!

That is for certain, some are really insistant on the proper use of titles .

 

[soapstar]

Aha, so unofficially she will most probably be Princess Catherine and no one will make an issue about it. In the Netherlands we call that "in de volksmond". Literally translated "in the people's mouths".

Is this unofficial endorsement unprecedented?

I wonder that too.

 

[Galois]

Don't Read Too Much Into it

William wants his wife to be known as "Princess Catherine".

'Although the Prince's spokesman said he was "honoured" to become the Duke of Cambridge, he had let it be known that he would prefer to remain Prince William and for his wife to become "Princess Catherine''.'

Royal wedding: new bride Kate Middleton takes her place in the Royal hierarchy - Telegraph

While the article is interesting, I wouldn't read too much into it. The Royal Family will clearly refer to them as the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. The statement that Prince William "had let it be known" that he would prefer for his wife to become "Princess Catherine" was news reported months ago. The Queen could certainly understand these feelings. I don't doubt she had wanted her husband to be known as Prince Phillip before her ascension, but she had to wait. Nonetheless she decided that Prince William must wait as well. That being said, there is an acknowledgement from the royal family that the public will call her what it chooses, and they're not going to constantly correct people. That is all I understand from the Prince of Wale's communications secretary.