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  #101  
Old 04-29-2011, 06:39 PM
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It seems that the Cambridge title wasn't a surprise; it was certainly one of the most often mentioned possibilities in polls, with commentators, etc. Is there are reason for this? Was there something in particular that made this title a strong possibility or was it just one of those ideas that took off on its own and turned out to be right?
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  #102  
Old 04-29-2011, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
a Royal Duke ship (can't think of the correct word)
The word is Dukedom.
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  #103  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
They are as follows: TRH Prince and Princess William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Earl and Countess of Strathearn, Baron and Baroness Carrickfergus. Because William was made a peer, he will now be known the senior most of those peerages, which is his ducal title. As his wife, she will be known by the feminine form of that title. So while they are still Prince and Princess William, they will be styled and referred to now as TRH The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.

Which sounds damn regal.


I agree it does sound regal
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  #104  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:09 PM
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Courtesy Titles

As I understand it, a main reason for the two subsidiary titles is for future use (as courtesy titles) for their first son and grandson. The eldest sons of the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent both are known as Earls in this regard.
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  #105  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by David Smith
As I understand it, a main reason for the two subsidiary titles is for future use (as courtesy titles) for their first son and grandson. The eldest sons of the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent both are known as Earls in this regard.
Isn't it to represent Scotland too?Or something like that?
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  #106  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
It seems that the Cambridge title wasn't a surprise; it was certainly one of the most often mentioned possibilities in polls, with commentators, etc. Is there are reason for this? Was there something in particular that made this title a strong possibility or was it just one of those ideas that took off on its own and turned out to be right?
I felt that Cambridge was a nice tribute to the heritage of the royal family. Queen Mary, grandmother of the current queen, was a grand-daughter of the last Duke of Cambridge. She's the one who commissioned the Cambridge Lover's Knot Tiara that the queen later gave to Diana.
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  #107  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
I was told by a friend that they are still are still Prince and Princess William of Wales but they were also given a Royal Duke ship (can't think of the correct word). I hope this is true and they can still use this though I doubt they will

I wish Kate and Will had declined the Duke title. It's so blah!

As William now has a peerage in his own right he is no longer 'of Wales' as his own 'of Cambridge' takes over.

He is still HRH Prince William so Catherine is now HRH Princess William.

However, they won't use those styles officially but will be referred to as The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - just like Prince Charles is often referred to as Prince Charles officially he is always The Prince of Wales - except in Cornwall where he is The Duke of Cornwall and in Scotland where the official style is always The Duke of Rothesay.
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  #108  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:26 PM
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Look at it this way: William is a married man now. He's starting his own household and his own family with Catherine. The new title reflects this change in his life and lets him establish a separate identity than just the son of the Prince of Wales. It's an upgrade and marks his growing role as a member of the royal family.
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  #109  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:30 PM
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Courtesy Titles

You're right. The titles are usually an English dukedom, a Scottish earldom and a (Northern) Irish barony. In earlier times, the dukedom might actually have been Scottish and/or Irish as well. For example, Queen Victoria's son Arthur was the Duke of Connaught and Strathearn. So the Queen actually revived the use of the Strathearn title. The Cambridge title became extinct about 30 years ago with the death of the 2nd Marquess of Cambridge.
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  #110  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by David Smith View Post
You're right. The titles are usually an English dukedom, a Scottish earldom and a (Northern) Irish barony. In earlier times, the dukedom might actually have been Scottish and/or Irish as well. For example, Queen Victoria's son Arthur was the Duke of Connaught and Strathearn. So the Queen actually revived the use of the Strathearn title. The Cambridge title became extinct about 30 years ago with the death of the 2nd Marquess of Cambridge.

You can have more than one peerage representing an area. While the Marquessate of Cambridge became extinct 30 years ago, the Dukedom of Cambridge became extinct over 100 years ago, and that's what William received. If there was still a Marquess of Cambridge, it wouldn't have hindered the Queen from bestowing William with a dukedom from the same area.
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  #111  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:35 PM
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Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, actually lived in Clarence House until his death in 1942. So that gives us another nice connection to William -- not to mention that Arthur is one of his names!
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  #112  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:36 PM
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The son of George III who was Duke of Cambridge Prince Adolphus) was also Chancellor of St Andrews University so using Cambridge is a link to William's father and to the university that brought them together.

Charles went to Cambridge and of course Kate and William met at St Andrews.

Just a thought why Cambridge and not Clarence.

Of course William is also a direct descendent of this Duke of Cambridge through Queen Mary. Adolphus' daughter was Queen Mary's mother so William is a great-great-great-great-grandson of Adolpus.
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  #113  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:53 PM
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As I understand it, a main reason for the two subsidiary titles is for future use (as courtesy titles) for their first son and grandson. The eldest sons of the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent both are known as Earls in this regard.
William's eldest son will automatically be HRH Prince X of Cambridge at birth under the 1917 Letters Patent and will not use his father's Earldom as a courtesy title.

His other children will be Lord/Lady Mountbatten-Windsor under the 1917 Letters Patent if born during The Queen's reign, unless she issues Letters Patent providing all of his children will enjoy the style and rank of HRH Prince/Princess of the UK, which I think is very likely.
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  #114  
Old 04-29-2011, 08:28 PM
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William's eldest son will automatically be HRH Prince X of Cambridge at birth under the 1917 Letters Patent and will not use his father's Earldom as a courtesy title.His other children will be Lord/Lady Mountbatten-Windsor under the 1917 Letters Patent if born during The Queen's reign, unless she issues Letters Patent providing all of his children will enjoy the style and rank of HRH Prince/Princess of the UK, which I think is very likely.
As George VI issued letters patent to make her children royal while he was still alive, one thinks that she would do the same.

However, just to through a wrinkle into the mix, perhaps they will agree to let the name Windsor-Mountbatten stand for a few years just as a kindness to Prince Phillip to see his legacy live on before he dies. Of course, if the firstborn is a girl, that issue will be overshadowed by the controversy over the law of succession.

It would be easier if Prince Harry marries and has a child before Prince Phillip dies. It might be less controversial to leave his children non-royal until his grandmother's death. However, I would say the odds of that happening are increasingly remote given Phillip's age and Harry's new status as one of the most desirable bachelors in the world.
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  #115  
Old 04-29-2011, 08:30 PM
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  #116  
Old 04-29-2011, 09:09 PM
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As George VI issued letters patent to make her children royal while he was still alive, one thinks that she would do the same.
George VI issued Letters Patent in 1948 providing Elizabeth's children would be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK at birth because under the 1917 Letters Patent only the male-line grandchildren are entitled to it and he knew his daughter would succeed him as The Sovereign.

Victoria issued Letters Patent in 1898 elevating the children of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales to the rank of HRH. At that time, male-line great-grandchildren were HH Prince/Princess of Great Britain and Ireland at birth, but she elevated The Duke of York's children to Royal Highness knowing they would become male-line grandchildren of The Sovereign.

The Queen may do the same given her age and the reality that William's children will become the future royal family in a relatively short timeframe.
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  #117  
Old 04-29-2011, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
You can have more than one peerage representing an area. While the Marquessate of Cambridge became extinct 30 years ago, the Dukedom of Cambridge became extinct over 100 years ago, and that's what William received. If there was still a Marquess of Cambridge, it wouldn't have hindered the Queen from bestowing William with a dukedom from the same area.
Can you give an example of when this happened? Many times a noble is referred to simply by the geographical entity in his title (ie Wellington in place of the Duke of Wellington) so it would be confusing to have both a Duke of Cambridge and a Marquess of Cambridge. Thus I think the Cambridge title had to become extinct before it could be used again.
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  #118  
Old 04-29-2011, 09:33 PM
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A thought about the actual LPs creating this title:


If they follow the normal course of events e.g. 'heirs male of the body' the imagine the following scenaria:

William and Kate's first child is a girl. Their second child though is a boy.
The governments of the various realms change the law about primogeniture without changing the laws regarding other titles at the same time then

The girl will be Queen in time but the boy will inherit Cambridge.
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  #119  
Old 04-29-2011, 10:10 PM
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That would only happen if William died before becoming King. The dukedom will merge into the crown when (and if) he succeeds.
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  #120  
Old 04-29-2011, 10:29 PM
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That would only happen if William died before becoming King. The dukedom will merge into the crown when (and if) he succeeds.

Of course - I should have spelt out what I meant better.
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