Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?

  • Duke of Clarence

    Votes: 25 16.3%
  • Duke of Cambridge

    Votes: 68 44.4%
  • Duke of Sussex

    Votes: 5 3.3%
  • Duke of Windsor

    Votes: 8 5.2%
  • Duke of Kendall

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Earl of Something

    Votes: 8 5.2%
  • Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else.

    Votes: 11 7.2%
  • Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales

    Votes: 26 17.0%

  • Total voters
    153
  • Poll closed .
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William hasn't been promised any Dukedom. Either he is created a Duke in his own right the morning of his wedding, inherits a Dukedom (Edinburgh) if his father and grandfather predecease The Queen, or becomes one automatically when his grandmother dies by right of being the eldest son of The Sovereign and heir (Cornwall).

So, the reality is William is going to become a Duke one way or another even if his grandmother doesn't create him a Peer with marriage. If his father doesn't survive to be King, William will become The Duke of Edinburgh upon Philip's death. If his father succeeds to the throne, he will become The Duke of Cornwall automatically.
 
William isn't guaranteed Cornwall and Rothesay at all. If his father predeceased the Queen then William won't get either of them as he won't be able to fulfil the requirements for those titles.

He would be heir apparent but he also has to be the eldest son of the monarch to be Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay so it is perfectly possible that the heir to the British throne, at some time in the future, could hold the title of Prince William and no other title - until his grandmother creates him Prince of Wales, which could happen very quickly or could take a long time or not happen at all.

In the normal course of events William will get those two Dukedoms but there is a chance he won't, just as in the normal course of events Edward will be able to be created Duke of Edinburgh but there is a chance it won't be available for him or that he could inherit it directly.
 
Of course! I know that. The situation between William and Edward aren't identical, but they are similar. William has been promised (by tradition and right) the Title 'Duke of Cornwall' upon his father coming to the throne. My point is Edward was named an Earl at his wedding, but knows he will one day in the future become Duke. Likewise, William will be named an Earl at his wedding, but knows he will one day in the future become a Duke.

By creating William an Earl, Kate will officially and unofficially be called Countess. However, if William is not made an earl or duke, then Kate, while officially be called 'Princess William of Wales', but unofficially and commonly called 'Princess Catherine'.

Hence the reason I think they will become an earl and countess.

It's possible of course, but I don't see this happening. Edward is seventh in line to the throne. His place will only go further down once William, Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie have children. Whether he is called an earl or a duke will make little difference since he will never be in the position to ascend the throne. William on the other hand has no one in his way to ascend the throne after his father. His position is extremely important in the monarchy, just as his first born son will also be. I don't see the Queen allowing the 2nd in line to the throne to be known as a mere Earl.
 
I do think it is very possible William will be created an Earl by The Queen. As I said, it is very likely that he will become a Duke automatically under the probable scenarios, so an Earldom may suffice for now.
 
Yes, although curtesying is now considered to be optional, even in the presence of The Queen, although all Royal Households still strictly follow protocol.


I seem to remember a wave of curtseys attending the Prince and Princess of Wales up the aisle as they left the altar after their wedding...or am I just hallucinating? Or remembering something from a TV movie?
 
From what I remember both Charles and Diana (as well as Anne/Mark, Andrew/Sarah, Edward/Sophie, and Charles/Camilla) curtsied to the Queen after their marriage. I don't recall them curtseying to anyone else during the actual ceremony.
 
From what I remember both Charles and Diana (as well as Anne/Mark, Andrew/Sarah, Edward/Sophie, and Charles/Camilla) curtsied to the Queen after their marriage. I don't recall them curtseying to anyone else during the actual ceremony.


Except for the Anne/Mark one my memory is the same - after the were actually married and had signed the registry and turned to go back down the aisle they all curtesied to the Queen but others curtesied or bowed to them as they exited the churches.

The reason I don't know about Anne/Mark was that our boarding school mistress sent us to bed shortly after she entered the Abbey so I wasn't able to see the end of the ceremony.
 
I do think it is very possible William will be created an Earl by The Queen. As I said, it is very likely that he will become a Duke automatically under the probable scenarios, so an Earldom may suffice for now.

I thought he automatically inherits is father's current titles (except The Prince of Wales) the instant the Queen passes away and Charles becomes King.

In those list of titles he will become Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick and Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scottland. Considering he will inherit 2 ducal titles, one Earl title and one Baron title, what would be the point of granting another Ducal or Earldom title n his wedding day? Unlike his brother and uncles who will more than likely carry the title bestowed on their wedding day for life (with the exception of perhaps Edward), William will have multiple titles he will inherit from his father automatically when the Queen passes. He may also be invested as the Prince of Wales, however we shall see.

I personally would prefer that he does not take another title and Catherine is allowed to be styled HRH Princess Catherine of Wales rather than HRH Princess William of Wales. That leaves more options for Harry when he marries since whichever title he is given will more than likely be for life.
 
I thought he automatically inherits is father's current titles (except The Prince of Wales) the instant the Queen passes away and Charles becomes King.

In those list of titles he will become Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick and Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scottland. Considering he will inherit 2 ducal titles, one Earl title and one Baron title, what would be the point of granting another Ducal or Earldom title n his wedding day? Unlike his brother and uncles who will more than likely carry the title bestowed on their wedding day for life (with the exception of perhaps Edward), William will have multiple titles he will inherit from his father automatically when the Queen passes. He may also be invested as the Prince of Wales, however we shall see.

I personally would prefer that he does not take another title and Catherine is allowed to be styled HRH Princess Catherine of Wales rather than HRH Princess William of Wales. That leaves more options for Harry when he marries since whichever title he is given will more than likely be for life.


William will not become Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay if Charles predeceases his mother so they aren't a given. They aren't inheritable in the normal manner of titles. Charles didn't inherit them from either of his parents. The previous holder of both those titles was still very much alive - and using another title - when Charles assumed them. He became Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay at the exact instant his mother became Queen because he met the two requirements of those two Dukedoms - that he is both the eldest living son of the monarch AND the heir apparent. If Charles dies before his mother William will never be Duke of Cornwall or Duke of Rothesay as he won't be the eldest son of the monarch (the same thing that happened with George III - heir apparent but never Duke of Cornwall/Rothesay even though his father held both titles - George didn't inherit them when his father died because he wasn't the eldest son of the monarch).

The other possibility is that he could inherit the Edinburgh title at some point as well e.g. Charles dies, Philip dies then William will be Duke of Edinburgh until his own accession.

I hope the Queen doesn't give him a title but also I hope that Kate is styled Princess William. It distinguishes the Princesses born from those who marry in and I like that idea personally.

Of coures if Charles does become King then William will automatically become Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay as he would be the eldest son of the monarch and the heir apparent - but not through inheritance.

George V was created Duke of York after it was clear that he was going to be King and then in 1901 became Cornwall etc. He was in the same position as William today at the time he was created Duke of York - the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. As the Queen loved George V so much it is possible that she could use his titles as a precedent and thus allow him to have three dukedoms. If it was good enough for her grandfather the it should be good enough for her grandson.
 
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William will not become Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay if Charles predeceases his mother so they aren't a given. They aren't inheritable in the normal manner of titles. Charles didn't inherit them from either of his parents. The previous holder of both those titles was still very much alive - and using another title - when Charles assumed them. He became Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay at the exact instant his mother became Queen because he met the two requirements of those two Dukedoms - that he is both the eldest living son of the monarch AND the heir apparent. If Charles dies before his mother William will never be Duke of Cornwall or Duke of Rothesay as he won't be the eldest son of the monarch (the same thing that happened with George III - heir apparent but never Duke of Cornwall/Rothesay even though his father held both titles - George didn't inherit them when his father died because he wasn't the eldest son of the monarch).

The other possibility is that he could inherit the Edinburgh title at some point as well e.g. Charles dies, Philip dies then William will be Duke of Edinburgh until his own accession.

I hope the Queen doesn't give him a title but also I hope that Kate is styled Princess William. It distinguishes the Princesses born from those who marry in and I like that idea personally.

Of coures if Charles does become King then William will automatically become Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay as he would be the eldest son of the monarch and the heir apparent - but not through inheritance.

Understood, but it's unlikely that The Queen will outlive Prince Charles. In the unlikely event this happened, then William of course would ascend the throne with whatever titles he has at that time since it's unlikely the Queen would bestow any other titles in the interim.

I am surprised that you support Catherine being styled as Princess William since you seem supportive of women being seen as their own person and not just an extension of their mates. Although I understand your point in regards to Princesses of birth vs. Princesses by marriage I don't see anyone mistaking Catherine as being a born Princess if she were to be styled Princess Catherine. Everyone knows her origins and that she is entering this marriage without a title or noble heritage of her own. Considering the media attention she has received for years and will only get more intense from here on out, it would be much less complicated for her to be allowed that style. The world media will refer to her in that manner anyway. The syle HRH Princess William, will require endless explanations and corrections to the billions of people who don't understand how the British Monarchy works. I certainly didn't know until I came to this board.
 
when Charles assumed them. He became Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay at the exact instant his mother became Queen because he met the two requirements of those two Dukedoms - that he is both the eldest living son of the monarch AND the heir apparent.

A bit off topic, (Sorry!), but why do people always say Duke of Cornwall has two requirements? Why is being the eldest living son of the monarch not sufficient for becoming Duke of Corwall? I can't think of any time when the eldest living son of the monarch would also not be the heir apparent. Except maybe if the eldest living son was Catholic or married to a Catholic.
 
A bit off topic, (Sorry!), but why do people always say Duke of Cornwall has two requirements? Why is being the eldest living son of the monarch not sufficient for becoming Duke of Corwall? I can't think of any time when the eldest living son of the monarch would also not be the heir apparent. Except maybe if the eldest living son was Catholic or married to a Catholic.

I am also confused about this. Wouldn't being the eldest living son of a monarch automatically make them the heir apparent under the current male premogenture? Therefore, there should only be one requirement. That they are the heir apparent BY being the eldest living son.
 
A bit off topic, (Sorry!), but why do people always say Duke of Cornwall has two requirements? Why is being the eldest living son of the monarch not sufficient for becoming Duke of Corwall? I can't think of any time when the eldest living son of the monarch would also not be the heir apparent. Except maybe if the eldest living son was Catholic or married to a Catholic.

You need to travel back to George III. He was Prince of Wales but never the Duke of Cornwall, because he was not George II's eldest son and heir, he was his grandson. In order to be Duke of Cornwall, you must be the sovereign's eldest son and heir. If Charles dies before the Queen, William cannot be the Duke of Cornwall, because he is not the Queen's eldest son, though he would be her heir.

Under a charter of 1421, the dukedom passes to the Sovereign's eldest son and heir. If the Duke of Cornwall dies, his eldest son does not inherit the Dukedom. However, if the Duke of Cornwall should die without children, his next brother obtains the Dukedom. Underlying these rules is the principle that only a son of the Sovereign—never a grandson, even if he is the heir apparent—may be Duke of Cornwall; similarly, no female may ever be Duke of Cornwall, even if she is heiress presumptive or heiress apparent to the throne. It is possible for an individual to be Prince of Wales and heir apparent without being Duke of Cornwall. For example, King George II's heir-apparent, the future George III, was Prince of Wales, but not Duke of Cornwall (because he was the King's grandson, not the King's son). When the Sovereign has no legitimate son, the estates of the Duchy of Cornwall revert to the Crown until a legitimate son is born to the Sovereign or until the accession of a new Sovereign who has a son.
 
You need to travel back to George III. He was Prince of Wales but never the Duke of Cornwall, because he was not George II's eldest son and heir, he was his grandson. In order to be Duke of Cornwall, you must be the sovereign's eldest son and heir. If Charles dies before the Queen, William cannot be the Duke of Cornwall, because he is not the Queen's eldest son, though he would be her heir.

I understand now. Thank you for the clarification! :flowers:
 
William wants her named Princess Catherine?

If William is offered a Duke title by the queen, he does not have to accept the title from what I have read. And if this is true, he may not accept a Duke title as he wants Kate to be a Princess styled with her name.
 
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For the last time, we don't know that William actually said he wants Catherine styled as a princess in her own right. There is zero proof outside of an errant comment in an article months ago, to back that up.

You are right that if the Queen offers William a dukedom he has the right of refusal, but does anyone actually think he would? Come on now.
 
If William is offered a Duke title by the queen, he does not have to accept the title from what I have read. And if this is true, hWe may not accept a Duke title as he wants Kate to be a Princess styled with her name.

The title issue is something that William, Prince Charles and The Queen would have discussed. The Queen may also have consulted with several experts as well, which is not unusual.

Either way, as is usually the case, William may indeed have given The Queen an indication of what he would prefer and she may have accepted or declined the request.

It's not a big secret and William undoubtedly knows already what Catherine will be called or whether he is going to become a Peer next week.
 
For the last time, we don't know that William actually said he wants Catherine styled as a princess in her own right. There is zero proof outside of an errant comment in an article months ago, to back that up.

You are right that if the Queen offers William a dukedom he has the right of refusal, but does anyone actually think he would? Come on now.

There are a couple articles or so out there that say that William requested this from his grandmother.

Here is one article:

Princess Catherine Queen Considers Unprecedented Title - All Global News on One Page

Granted artcles lie but we'll find out next Friday.
 
That article is inaccurate. Even if she is granted the style of "Princess Catherine", she would not be a Princess of the UK in her own right, but a princess by marriage. If they divorce, she will lose this style and her rank of HRH per the 1996 Letters Patent.

Alice was granted the right to use the style of "Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester" but she was not a princess in her own right. She was "HRH The Princess Henry" as the wife of a son of The Sovereign. Since she remained a princess as a widow, The Queen allowed her aunt to assume the style in honour of her service to the Crown.
 
That article is inaccurate. Even if she is granted the style of "Princess Catherine", she would not be a Princess of the UK in her own right, but a princess by marriage. If they divorce, she will lose this style and her rank of HRH per the 1996 Letters Patent.

Alice was granted the right to use the style of "Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester" but she was not a princess in her own right. She was "HRH The Princess Henry" as the wife of a son of The Sovereign. Since she remained a princess as a widow, The Queen allowed her aunt to assume the style in honour of her service to the Crown.

As I said, we will find out Friday of next week for sure.
 
Hi AmericanObserver7:

Don't take it personally if you are challenged. Believe me, it happened to me when I was a Newbie! Welcome to the forums...
 
There are a couple articles or so out there that say that William requested this from his grandmother.

Here is one article:

Princess Catherine Queen Considers Unprecedented Title - All Global News on One Page

Granted artcles lie but we'll find out next Friday.


This means what, exactly? Unless it's coming from a Palace source, or William is physically interviewed on TV and the words come out of his mouth, it's mere speculation not to be taken as fact. Hence why I said, "for the last time, there's no proof etc,."

Of course we'll find out next Friday, but continuing to say that doesn't change the fact that it's highly unlikely the Queen will do something for a granddaughter-in-law she didn't do for any closer relations, especially women who are nearer to the crown than Catherine will be.
 
So we would know the title only during the ceremony or before hand by a day or so?
I think Kate will get the title HRH Princess Catherine in her own right since she is marrying the future king, it wont make sense to me if she doesn't.
 
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My guess is something would be said the day of the wedding, so that all the commentators covering it have the appropriate information. I would look for an announcement from the Palace either right before everything kicks off, or the night before.
 
This means what, exactly? Unless it's coming from a Palace source, or William is physically interviewed on TV and the words come out of his mouth, it's mere speculation not to be taken as fact. Hence why I said, "for the last time, there's no proof etc,."

Of course we'll find out next Friday, but continuing to say that doesn't change the fact that it's highly unlikely the Queen will do something for a granddaughter-in-law she didn't do for any closer relations, especially women who are nearer to the crown than Catherine will be.[/QUOTE]

The only woman closer to the crown than Catherine will be after April 29th is Camilla. Therefore, I have to differ with you on this issue.
 
This means what, exactly? Unless it's coming from a Palace source, or William is physically interviewed on TV and the words come out of his mouth, it's mere speculation not to be taken as fact. Hence why I said, "for the last time, there's no proof etc,."

Of course we'll find out next Friday, but continuing to say that doesn't change the fact that it's highly unlikely the Queen will do something for a granddaughter-in-law she didn't do for any closer relations, especially women who are nearer to the crown than Catherine will be.[/QUOTE]

The only woman closer to the crown than Catherine will be after April 29th is Camilla. Therefore, I have to differ with you on this issue.

I believe what Sister Morphine meant is the Queen didn't make Diana, Princess of Wales a Princess in her own right (granted she became The Princess of Wales immediately upon marriage, so it's kind of moot point here), and she was closer to the throne than Catherine would be (for now anyway). Maybe it's different now, but I really doubt the Queen will let Catherine be styled Princess Catherine if she doesn't give a peerage to Prince William.

While Prince William is certainly modern and forward-looking, I doubt he's going to ask the Queen to break that tradition. Besides all we've got is vague claims from newspapers that the Prince asked the Queen not to make him a Duke/Earl and give Catherine her own Princess. It just doesn't smell like something he'd do.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but in my opinion it's just very unlikely. :flowers:
 
What is wonky to me about this article is that William doesn't want a dukedom or earldom or peerage of any kind, but he wants his wife to be styled as a blood-royal princess. Perhaps he's not as smart as I thought.
 
Well, we have no idea what William really said or whether the speculation is even true. Personally, I find it difficult to believe William would not be well-aware that his grandmother is very much a traditionalist in these matters and such a request was not likely to be accepted.

But we'll see what happens.
 
Perhaps, after having been known as Prince William his entire life, he doesn't wish to assume another name. A new title wouldn't give him any more position or income than he currently has. And he would wish for Katherine to retain her own name as well. Allowing Katherine to be styled as Princess Katherine need not upset an entire apple cart of tradition. They're young, they're modern, they are the hope and future of the monarchy.

On the other hand- heaven forbid, if William were to die, Katherine would be left without a real title- except for that of "Princess William."

I wouldn't be surprised for her to get the style now, and the actual title when she has borne the future King (or Queen).

The Prince William brand is a strong one- it's good for the monarchy for the heir presumptive to have a strong brand. If he is a greybeard when he ascends the throne, the Prince William title will be a familiar one, and an endearing reminder of his youthful glamour. Duke of Whatever, not so much.
 
To me there is a vast difference between what P. William, at age 28, 'wants' and what QE2, @ age 85, 'knows.'
P. William believes he and Catherine will be married forever and as with most people his age he doesn't have the life experience to realize it might not work out in the very long run. And Catherine, as the product of a seemingly happy intact marriage has even less experience with divorce.
Her majesty, on the other hand, has witnessed all of her children's first marriages, except Edward and Sophie's, end in divorce (as did her sister's.) While I'm sure she truly hopes C & W will be together for life, her life experience has been that this isn't guarenteed. Because of this, I would be surprised if she deviated from past precedent by styling Catherine as Princess Catherine.
Although P. William may or may not want a dukedom, I suspect he'll accept one, if only so that when P. Harry marries he'll be given a dukedom as well.
Of course, I have no idea how the royal family views titles, they live in such rarified air, perhaps for them a title truly has no meaning.
 
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