Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[Osipi]

you might get a "we are not amused"...

But I am!

I don't think the present Duke of Northumberland would be too amused either as Castle Alnwick was the location used in the movies for Hogwarts.
On the other hand, the Queen Rowling just might be pleasantly amused.

Back to the topic of titles for William and Kate, the more it is discussed, I do think William will receive a Dukedom or an Earldom on his wedding day. I don't think there's any chance at all of the Queen allowing "Princess Catherine". If anything, that would be something that could come about when the issue of Equal Primogeniture is really seriously discussed.

One thing that has been nagging at is why William would not want a Dukedom and just remain Prince William. Then it hit me. Perhaps it is the "Wales" aspect. If he became Duke of Hogwarts, he would be Prince William, The Duke of Hogwarts and Kate The Duchess of Hogwarts. If he did not have any further titles, then they'd retain the "of Wales". That could continue until his father ascends the throne and perhaps creates William The Prince of Wales and it would continue. Perhaps it is this continuity that William is hoping to achieve? Just a thought.

 

[branchg]

Again, we have no idea if the press report is accurate and whether William, in fact, proposed any change in the way his future wife would be styled.

Since being "Princess Catherine" would indicate a much higher profile than "HRH The Duchess or Countess of X", it really doesn't make any sense to me, given William's plan to continue his military training and for the couple to live modestly near the base.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don't think the present Duke of Northumberland would be too amused either as Castle Alnwick was the location used in the movies for Hogwarts.

He can only be offended "slightly" as only 2 films were made there, and that was 10 years ago.

 

[Lady Ann]

I see nothing wong with her being HRH Princess William of Wales...it being said that they are going to stay out of the spot light for 2years after the wedding. The press will still call her Princess Cathrine anyway.. She will get alot more titles soon enough.

 

[Duke of Leaside]

For what it's worth, here's my prediction for the titles:

They'll be announced on April 28, or early on the 29th.

Prince William will become Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Stornoway, Baron Ballycastle.

So Kate will become (upon marriage), officially:

HRH Princess William Arthur Philip Louis, Duchess of Cambridge, Countess of Stornoway, Baroness Ballycastle.

They'll be styled The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.

Their oldest living son will be Prince Y of Cambridge.

Younger sons/all daughters will be the Lord Y/Lady X Mountbatten-Windsor.

We shall see in less than 3 months!

 

[cmkrcwi]

No, she will not be "The Princess William of Wales" because William is not "The Prince William of Wales. If he does not receive a royal dukedom or some other title, she will be "Princess William of Wales" because William's title is Prince William of Wales. If he becomes Duke of Cambridge, she will become "The Duchess of Cambridge" because "Duke of Cambridge" will be his title. She will not be Princess William of Wales because Prince William of Wales will no longer be William's title.

 

[Iluvbertie]

She won't be The Princess William of Wales but she will be Princess William of Wales. She won't be The Princess William until Charles becomes King - when she will become The Princess William as the wife of a child of the monarch.

William will add titles, maybe on 29th April, but he won't lose his current titles. If he is given a dukedom that is the one that will be used officially but he will still be Prince William. The 'of Wales' wouldn't be used - true - because he would have an 'of Hogwarts' to use in his own right. Technically he would still be 'of Wales' as the son of Charles but he wouldn't use it with his own title.

William was born a Prince and will remain a Prince until he becomes King and so his titles will always include the option of just being called Prince William and thus his wife will be Princess William. Any other titles are on top of that birth title.

In time William's titles will look something like - His Royal Highness The Prince William Arthur Philip Louis , Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, Duke of Cornwall and Hogwarts, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Earl of Godric's Hollow, Baron of Renfrew, Baron of Diagon Alley, Lord of the Isles and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Knight of the Garter etc as other orders are added. Kate would take the feminine form of these titles - all of these titles not just some of them.

The ones in bold are the ones he would hold from his marriage and they would simply be included in his other titles - he wouldn't lose them on becoming Duke of Cornwall or even on being given the title Prince of Wales.

 

[EmpressRouge]

Ooo...random thought. Maybe the Queen will be inspired by popular historical fiction again and give William the title Earl of Grantham (it was created once and became extinct very quickly, but Julian Fellowes recently used it for his fictional characters in "Downton Abbey"). It's happened before when Edward got the Earldom of Wessex (from "Shakespeare in Love").

 

[purple_Lulu]

Bwah ha ha! If William can grow up to be as lovable as Hugh Bonneville (which I'm sure he can), then I'm all for it!

 

[FasterB]

I started saying 'Hogwarts' because I didn't want to use a title that had already come into use and I am a HP fan.

Don´t worry, I´m a HP-fan myself I just had a good giggle over it - and since I don´t know anything about the english dukedoms, I wouldn´t know if there really were one called Hogwarts

 

[Lumutqueen]

His grandmother can give him any title she wishes.

 

[Lumutqueen]

There isn't any kind of tradition that says he cannot receive a dukedom.

 

[Zonk]

Is William "entitled" to a dukedom? I was under the impression that this was available only to sons of the Soverign. Has this changed?

I don't think that is the case.

Victoria made George (later George V) the Duke of York in 1892 and his brother (Albert Victor) the Duke of Clarence and Avondale in 1890. And Edward (their father) didn't become King until 1901.

The last soverign with a grandson was George VI with Charles, and letters were issued that made him a Prince. So anything is possible at this point.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

thanks, zonk

 

[Saragli]

I wonder, do you think they might just go by the Earl and Countess of Carrick/Chester. William has the right to use it as the son of Charles and it the lesser title would befit the quieter life they plan to live for a wee while.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I wonder, do you think they might just go by the Earl and Countess of Carrick/Chester. William has the right to use it as the son of Charles and it the lesser title would befit the quieter life they plan to live for a wee while.

William doesn't have the right to use it as it isn't an hereditary title. It has to be recreated for each new holder. It doesn't have the usual inheritance remainder as it merges with the Crown each time the holder becomes King or dies - whichever comes first.

The other titles that William will gain at his father's accession are also different to normal inheritance situations as they are determined not by just being the eldest son and the male line heir but by being the heir apparent. The LPs creating these titles also don't have normal remainders and again technically they merge with the Crown on the holders accession but as they have automatic built in determinants as to who the next holder is they will go to William at the same time as they merge with the Crown. They aren't inherited titles but automatic creations when he meets both the criteria needed.

William isn't entitled to any of Charles titles as there are additional conditions to the normal ones associated with titles.

The title he is entitled to use is Baron Greenwich - the third of Philip's titles as that one has normal inheritance conditions attached - 'heirs male of the body' and William is second in line to inherit Philip's titles after his father.

 

[windsorbrides1]

The last Prince William was William IV (the king whom Victoria succeeded) and he was Duke of Clarence and St. Andrews, his brother was Prince of Wales. Prince Albert Victor, the last son of a living Prince of Wales (Albert Edward aka Edward VII - son of Queen Victoria was Prince of Wales when his son was born and growing up) was also Duke of Clarence and Avondale, and Earl of Athlone. Athlone even has a Vicountcy - Viscount Trematon. I'm guessing that William becomes Duke of Clarence.

The Dukedom of Connaught is out because it was created from an Irish name and with the feeling of the Irish toward the Royals - it might not go over well.

The Royals set store in bad luck as well. All the Dukes of Cambridge didn't have issue because their sons all died early deaths before they could marry. So I think that's out.

The Dukedom of Sussex has only been used once for a 6th son of George III. I don't think that title is quite grand enough.

 

[rossop7]

I hope they get a Dukedom rather than Earldom, I just prefer the title Duke/Duchess to Earl/Countess...well Countess is rather cool but I don't like Earl. Not that coolness really should be the deciding factor in all this!

And if I were just picking titles without paying any attention to history or precedence etc then I'd pick Duke of Windsor for them (obviously never in a million years is that ever going to be given to anyone in the RF again let alone the heir to the heir but hey it's a nice title I think, shame about the reasons for it's existence & the connotations with it). Of the other far more likely options that we are aware of I think Duke of Cambridge is the nicest title. Regardless of what they end up with though he's always going to be Prince William to me, no matter what his title, probably even when he's King I'll still be calling him Prince William!

 

[EmpressRouge]

I hope they get a Dukedom rather than Earldom, I just prefer the title Duke/Duchess to Earl/Countess...well Countess is rather cool but I don't like Earl. Not that coolness really should be the deciding factor in all this!

If only the British had "Count" instead of "Earl" like they did on the continent. Sigh.

 

[Lady Ann]

I really hope it is The Duke of Cambridge...I love the sound of that..

 

[Madame Royale]

hope they get a Dukedom rather than Earldom, I just prefer the title Duke/Duchess to Earl/Countess...well Countess is rather cool but I don't like Earl. Not that coolness really should be the deciding factor in all this!

For me, titles can and do take on a certain character.

When I think of a Countess, I have this impression of a woman rather attractive, subsequently vain, often indifferent toward others and someone not to be crossed. Self concerning and although witty, purposely sarcastic. The title itself sounds rather 'cold' and yet at the same time incredibly feminine. Almost seductive.

Whereas a Duchess has always seemed to me as though the holder of the title would be a woman of considerable warmth, who is personable and has a good sense humour. Not necessarily young or attractive but someone well dignified and engaging. A woman who would get along well with most people no matter their social position (excluding Marina of kent )

 

[Kataryn]

The Battenberg-princes when they became British peers, were "only" created a Marquess and an Earl even though they were of Royal blood and kin of the Windsors. So a lot of British noble men and women had precedence over them. When Princess Katherine of Greece and Denmark wanted to marry a British subject and become one herself, she was granted the style "Lady" and precedence of "the daughter of a duke", so higher in rank than the Mountbattens.

OTOH when Edward was "just" created an Earl, it was said that he will be The Duke of Edinburgh one day. Of course he always has had the precedence of a HRH son of the souverain.

So I think the Royals have a certain idea what is suitable for one of their senior family members when it comes to create a groom a peer before his wedding. I doubt the queen will create William "just" an Earl. As the eldest son of The Prince of Wales he certainly should have a dukedom.

 

[Warren]

The last Prince William was William IV...

To be accurate, the most recent Prince William before William of Wales was Prince William of Gloucester who tragically died in a plane crash in 1972 at the age of 30.

All the Dukes of Cambridge didn't have issue because their sons all died early deaths before they could marry.

Again, to be accurate, Adolphus, Duke of Cambridge, son of George III, had a son George who became the 2nd and last Duke of Cambridge of that creation.
Prince George was the brother of Grand Duchess Augusta of Mecklenburg-Strelitz and Princess Mary Adelaide, Duchess of Teck (Queen Mary's mother). He married in contravention of the Royal Marriages Act and his three sons, who bore the surname Fitzgeorge, died at ages 64, 76 and 86.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Dukedom of Connaught is out because it was created from an Irish name and with the feeling of the Irish toward the Royals - it might not go over well.

Not only is it Irish but Connaught is in the Republic and the Queen simply wouldn't use a title associated with a realm over which she is no longer the monarch.

 

[Lady Deborah]

For me, titles can and do take on a certain character.

When I think of a Countess, I have this impression of a woman rather attractive, subsequently vain, often indifferent toward others and someone not to be crossed. Self concerning and although witty, purposely sarcastic. The title itself sounds rather 'cold' and yet at the same time incredibly feminine. Almost seductive.

Whereas a Duchess has always seemed to me as though the holder of the title would be a woman of considerable warmth, who is personable and has a good sense humour. Not necessarily young or attractive but someone well dignified and engaging. A woman who would get along well with most people no matter their social position (excluding Marina of kent )

Ouch!
::

 

[Madame Royale]

Ouch?

The Countess of Wessex is the perfect example of a woman who I think is warm and considerate and so would dispell my "theory" in an instant, but it's pertinent to mention that it's merely the title, not the person to which I refer

I've always liked the title 'Countess'. It has a certain je ne sais quoi.

The title of 'Duchess' just seems to me more 'cosy', not that that would make much sense I'm sure...haha.

 

[Lady Deborah]

I understand that it's the word not the person you were characterising. My 'ouch' was tongue I'm cheek since countess is the title in my family!

 

[Lady Deborah]

There is that pesky auto correct. I meant to sat 'tongue IN cheek'

 

[Saragli]

Thanks for the info ILBertie! I agree, titles to carry a certain image with them and mine is similar to MR. When I think of a Duchess, I often think of a really old but still cute Lady. Puts on whatever sort of clothes she has lying around but always her best jewelry. Enjoys a nip of sherry and or gin. The Duchess's of Cornwall and Devonshire support this image, but like MR said, our dear Marina did not. Marina to me is what I envision a Countess. Sensual, elegant, with a certain iciness and delicious wit, always looking her finest. I blame Disney for that imagery.

I like the Duke of Clarence and St. Andrews. They will one day(maybe/probably) live in Clarence House and they both met at St. Andrews Uni. It makes the most sense to me. I can't believe the wedding is less than three months away.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Oh, it's all so fascinating. Past laws and rules vs. current websites vs. popular opinion - and on and on!

I had no idea it was all so complicated. It's intriguing. The Queen may be the Fount of Honor, but Warren, Sister Morphine, Branchg and others...you're all amazing in your knowledge and your tireless patience in educating the rest of us.