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  #161  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
A note about William's future titles:

When Charles becomes King, William will become Duke of Cornwall AND Cambridge - a double barrelled dukedom, just as George V was Duke of Cornwall and York for most of 1901 (including holding those titles in that form official when he opened the first Australian parliament in 1901).



Won't William also become Duke of Edinburgh? (I mean after Phillip dies and Charles is King).
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  #162  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Won't William also become Duke of Edinburgh? (I mean after Phillip dies and Charles is King).
After the death of both The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh, the Duke of Edinburgh will become available and the plan is that it'll be given to The Earl of Wessex.

I'm sure others will be able to explain in a better way.
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  #163  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:29 AM
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When Charles becomes King all the other titles he has which are independent from titles that go to the heir apparent merge with the Crown and then are available to be given to someone else. The same thing will happen with William's Duke of Cambridge title. Andrew's Duke of York title will revert back to the crown after his death if he doesn't have a son to inherit it.


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  #164  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
After the death of both The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh, the Duke of Edinburgh will become available and the plan is that it'll be given to The Earl of Wessex.

I'm sure others will be able to explain in a better way.

Yes, but Charles doesn't have to give it to the Earl of Wessex if he doesn't feel like it, right? At least that's the impression I have.
  #165  
Old 09-12-2014, 12:28 PM
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Possible names for the 2nd child of the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge

Yes he can not give the title , If he really hated his brother and wanted to ignore his parents wishes.


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  #166  
Old 09-12-2014, 12:57 PM
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While I don't doubt that Charles will respect this parents wishes and make Edward Duke of Edinburgh once he's king, I think it's a bit harsh to say that he would have to "hate" Edward for e.g. wanting to keep a notable title such as Edinburgh within the royal family. I personally think it's a shame to see all these grand historical royal dukedoms (e.g. Kent and Gloucester) become ordinary dukedoms when they're passed on to members of the extended family. But I suppose there's nothing one can do about that other than hoping that they'll return one day.

Anyway, I apologise for going slightly off-topic on this.
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  #167  
Old 09-12-2014, 01:41 PM
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I was just answering Mirabel's question that Charles didn't have to give Edward title if he didn't want to.

I actually think he will


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  #168  
Old 09-12-2014, 05:51 PM
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Whoops, just realised in my original post that I had said that I can't picture a "Queen" Isolde. Just realised that we are naming the "spare" and not the heir!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
I once read - don't remember where - that they would have named their daughter Eleanor.
I haven't heard that before, although I've also read that Diana would've named William Victoria had he been a girl. I also read that other boys names Diana liked were John and Oliver, but as has been stated many times in this thread, John is unlucky within the BRF and of course the Oliver Cromwell connections with Oliver are unfortunate. I'm not 100% sure on these though, I would need to double check them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ff462 View Post
Perhaps its worth considering Diana's maiden name because Spencer is a boy's name too.
I highly doubt it, although in most British aristocratic families (and "normal" families too, a friend of mine has a family surname as her middle name) it is traditional for children to have their mother's maiden name within their set of names. But, I think we have to remember that we are naming a royal child and not a celebrity child - Spencer would be perfect for the next celebrity child, but a little out there or modern for the next royal child.
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  #169  
Old 09-12-2014, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Yes he can not give the title , If he really hated his brother and wanted to ignore his parents wishes.

But is it what his parents wish?

(I know that there were rumors, but I thought it wasn't anything official? I wondered if it was just media speculation. Perhaps Edward would prefer to keep his current title, since he actually chose it).
  #170  
Old 09-12-2014, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
But is it what his parents wish?

(I know that there were rumors, but I thought it wasn't anything official? I wondered if it was just media speculation. Perhaps Edward would prefer to keep his current title, since he actually chose it).

It was announced when Edward was created Earl of Wessex that it was intended that he would be Duke of Edinburgh in the future.

Edward won't lose his current title when he becomes DoE, he'll have both (just as his father, brothers, and nephew all hold multiple titles).
  #171  
Old 09-12-2014, 06:49 PM
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Where does all this stuff about Charles hating his brother comes from?


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  #172  
Old 09-12-2014, 06:53 PM
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Where does all this stuff about Charles hating his brother comes from?


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Someone took what Skippy was saying out of context.

When the DoE dies Charles will inherit his father's titles assuming that he's not king. Then, when he becomes king all of his titles will merge with the crown and will have to be recreated for others to use (the exception being Duke of Cornwall, which is automatically created when the conditions are met).

It is intended that when the DoE title merges with the crown the monarch, presumably Charles, will recreate the title for Edward.

Skippy pointed out that he is under no obligation to do so, and if he personally disliked Edward, or didn't want him to be a Duke, or didn't want to follow his parents' intention he wouldn't have to create Edward DoE, it's just what's expected of him.
  #173  
Old 09-13-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
No. If William is created the PoW, he still retains his dukedoms and titles.
So George will be DOC once William is king and then given the title POW once William gives it to him. I guess at the moment Charles is King William will be The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge automatically?
  #174  
Old 09-13-2014, 08:41 AM
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George is automatically duke of Cornwall once his father becomes king. The Cambridge title merges with the crown upon Williams accession , George does not automatically inherit it


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  #175  
Old 09-13-2014, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by carlfraley View Post
George is automatically duke of Cornwall once his father becomes king. The Cambridge title merges with the crown upon Williams accession , George does not automatically inherit it


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Someone else mentioned that William would hold a double title of Cornwall and Cambridge.
  #176  
Old 09-13-2014, 08:47 AM
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William could hold a double title "of Cornwall & Cambridge " until he was granted the higher title "prince of Wales". King George V was duke if Cornwall & York for 9 months until made POW by his father king EVII , much to the fury of HM Queen Mary. I doubt he would go by a double title though


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  #177  
Old 09-13-2014, 08:48 AM
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Couldn't Cambridge go to George when William becomes the PoW/Duke of Cornwall?


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  #178  
Old 09-13-2014, 08:54 AM
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I may be wrong and someone please correct me but in that scenario he'd have to have the sovereign's permission to be styled by courtesy as duke of Cambridge (his grand papa ) and that'd be his fathers secondary title , Williams primary titles at the time being prince if Wales /earl of Chester.

That being said, to my knowledge HRH PRINCE GEORGE of Wales would outrank any courtesy title ANYDAY Of the week by being a title of fact , not of "by courtesy "


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  #179  
Old 09-13-2014, 09:15 AM
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Possible names for the 2nd child of the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge

With a royal dukedom and a son with a HRH Prince, a courtesy title isn't used. For example, Charles is a royal duke, but William was HRH Prince William of Wales. The Duke of Kent is a Prince and a Duke but his son isn't a HRH, so he uses a courtesy title of Earl of St Andrews.

William will keep his Cambridge dukedom until he is King. He will gain titles - Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay as heir apparent and then be named Prince of Wales. George and his siblings will end up eventually styled as Harry is now- HRH Prince/Princess Name of Wales.

If something happened to William god forbid before he is King. George inherits the Cambridge dukedom but can't become Duke of Cornwall because he is not the eldest son of the monarch. George being heir apparent could be named Prince of Wales by his grandfather when King.
To be Duke of Cornwall is eldest son of the monarch and heir apparent so no Harry wouldn't become Duke of Cornwall in this scenario because Harry isn't the heir apparent.

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  #180  
Old 09-13-2014, 10:05 AM
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There are at least two precedents for the combining of the Cornwall title with another Dukedom. These are the most recent but I have only gone back about 300 years.

Frederick, Prince of Wales was Duke of Cornwall and Edinburgh from June 1727 until January 1729 - or 19 months before his father created him Prince of Wales.

George V was HRH The Duke of Cornwall and York from January to November 1901.

It would therefore be assumed that William will be HRH The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge from the death of his grandmother until such time as his father decides to grant him the title Prince of Wales - if he ever does do so.

If Charles predeceases his mother then William isn't eligible for the Cornwall title which we saw with George III who was never Duke of Cornwall although he did inherit his father's Edinburgh title. His grandfather created him Prince of Wales a month after Frederick's death.

The practice for Royal Dukedoms is that when their sons are also Princes those princes to not use the courtesy title of their father's titles e.g. The Duke of Kent was known as HRH Prince Edward of Kent from his birth until he succeeded to the title just as his brother and sister are still known as HRH Prince/Princess; The Duke of Gloucester was HRH Prince Richard of Gloucester from birth until her inherited the title and Prince Charles was HRH Prince Charles from birth until his mother's accession. None of these princes used their father's subsidiary titles as courtesy titles but were known as Princes from birth.

When the son isn't a Prince then he uses the courtesy title - e.g. James uses Viscount Severn because he isn't a Prince (and I am not going to debate that again - I know the arguments both ways), and the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent's heirs use the second titles and the grandsons use the third titles.

So George won't use Cambridge as a subsidiary title when William becomes Duke of Cornwall - anymore than the future Edward VIII used York after his grandfather became King in 1901. He went from being HRH Prince Edward of York to HRH Prince Edward of Cornwall and York to HRH Prince Edward of Wales inside 9 months and George would follow that precedent.

The only way George gains the Cambridge title is if William dies before becoming King - then regardless of any other titles George may have he would inherit Cambridge as well.

George could, in theory, also inherit Edinburgh (hopefully this scenario would not play out) if Charles and William were to predecease Philip and The Queen then George would be Duke of Edinburgh and Cambridge - inheriting Edinburgh from his great-grandfather and then Cambridge from his father. Both would then merge with the Crown when George succeeded of course.
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