Pippa Middleton: May 2011-May 2017

[Countessmeout]

I understood Philippa's future father-in-law is a Scottish Laird and that means Philippa will become a Lady indeed when her spouse becomes the Laird of Glenafric (Glen Afric). I get such a Monarch of the Glen-vibe.

Yeah, not unless everyone in Scotland who owns land is a laird. The family bought an old estate and turned it into a hotel. Not even Scottish, family is English.


Lady Hay most weddings are weekends as that is when most people are free to attend. Not only the couple, but bridal party and guests may all work. Often people have weekday to cut costs as less guests likely to make it. Especially out of town who may not wish to take days off work for weekday wedding.

 

[Spheno]

Yeah, not unless everyone in Scotland who owns land is a laird. The family bought an old estate and turned it into a hotel. Not even Scottish, family is English.

Some Scottish estates go with titles. If you buy such estate you recieve a title. Your nationality is unimportant.

 

[Denville]

Oh please let her get this over with and then we need not see her in the papers and on the net all the time

 

[Countessmeout]

If you want you can buy a plot and a title for 30 pounds

Laird in the sense you mean simply means master of an estate. It simply is an honorific tended to be used by emeployees in thee past. In Scottish common law anyone can use whatever title they choose, but that doesn't make them peers. So no, unlike Duc claims, Pippa will not become Lady Philippa when her FIl dies.

 

[lady of hay]

Countessmeout
I was married 25 years ago, so I do know why most people chose to marry at the weekend. My point was that there are other days available.

 

[Denville]

well its horses for courses. It is easier to get a booking on non weekend days but for many people it is diffuclt for some of their family/friends to go to a wedding during the week. however that is hardly going to apply to Philippa's circle of friends

If you want you can buy a plot and a title for 30 pounds

Laird in the sense you mean simply means master of an estate. It simply is an honorific tended to be used by emeployees in thee past. In Scottish common law anyone can use whatever title they choose, but that doesn't make them peers. So no, unlike Duc claims, Pippa will not become Lady Philippa when her FIl dies.

I assume he means Lady Surname or Lady Title.. (such as "Lady Spencer")

SHe could not become Lady Philippa unless her father was an earl. however, as you say she's not going to have any "Lady" title because "lairdship" is not a peerage.

 

[Countessmeout]

Countessmeout
I was married 25 years ago, so I do know why most people chose to marry at the weekend. My point was that there are other days available.

You asked why people are so fixated on Saturdays. If you don't want an answer don't ask For a huge society wedding where most guests will work during the week, the weekend is the clear option.

but why the speculation about the problem with Saturday ?

 

[Mirabel]

Oh please let her get this over with and then we need not see her in the papers and on the net all the time

Pippa is in the papers, because people click on the articles and read them.
Those in the DM have generated hundreds of comments.
That's what the press loves to see. And that means there will be a lot more.

If nobody bothered, she wouldn't rate a mention.
It's all supply and demand.

 

[Curryong]

Well, I think everybody, (including me!) loves love, if you know what I mean, and the engagement and wedding of a well known person does generate a lot of clicks.

However, I have to say, most of the time when photos appear of Pippa in the Daily Fail and other tabs, such as when she's at an event or been photographed walking down the street to lunch somewhere, the commentators at the DM and elsewhere tend to come out with things like 'And this is news!' and 'Why are you publicising this person, DM!? ' or insults about her looks. (I'm just quoting what I've observed over the years.)

This also happens when Cressida Bonas appears similarly in the tabloids, though people tend to be a bit more favourable towards someone like Chelsy Davy who was well-liked when she was dating Harry. So, in general, unless it's a specific nice event like this, (her engagement), I'd say that tabloid clickers aren't very kind about Pippa.

 

[AdmirerUS]

... However, I have to say, most of the time when photos appear of Pippa in the Daily Fail and other tabs, such as when she's at an event or been photographed walking down the street to lunch somewhere, the commentators at the DM and elsewhere tend to come out with things like 'And this is news!' and 'Why are you publicising this person, DM!? ' or insults about her looks. (I'm just quoting what I've observed over the years.)

I think (to quote an old Rod Stewart lyric) she wears it well... all the critique that is.
I think one of the finest things about Pippa an her immediate family is that they take repeated chucks on the jaw and just keep on keeping on. It shows resilience and maturity, IMO.

 

[Spheno]

If you want you can buy a plot and a title for 30 pounds

Laird (/ˈlɛərd/) is a generic name for the owner of a Scottish estate, roughly equivalent to an esquire in England, yet ranking above the same in Scotland. In the Scottish order of precedence, a laird ranks below a baron and above a gentleman. This rank is only held by those lairds holding official recognition in a territorial designation by the Lord Lyon King of Arms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laird

Laird in the sense you mean simply means master of an estate. It simply is an honorific tended to be used by emeployees in thee past. In Scottish common law anyone can use whatever title they choose, but that doesn't make them peers. So no, unlike Duc claims, Pippa will not become Lady Philippa when her FIl dies.

Pippa's future father-in-law, David Matthews, is the Laird of Glen Affric and owns a 10,000-acre Scottish estate near Loch Ness in the Scottish highlands.
When David dies, James will inherit the title and Pippa will have her own title bestowed upon her as his wife, which she can use in the Commonwealth.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-Lady-Glen-Affric-marries-James-Matthews.html

According to Debrett's 'Correct Form' (2002 Ed., p. 99), "a wife of a laird was invariably styled as Lady, followed by her husband's territorial designation (i.e lairdship), e.g. the wife of Cameron of Lochiel was called Lady Lochiel.... By the early 20th century, the laird's wife came to adopt her husband's full surname, and not just the territorial designation part, e.g. Joan Cameron, Lady Lochiel"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laird

Lady Glen Affric or Philippa Matthews, Lady Glen Affric

 

[Curryong]

I guess, what I'm trying to say is, (and the tabs don't care, a click is a click) that commentators at the Daily Fail and other tabs usually seem to skim over the fluff articles on Pippa or whoever, or even just look at the photos, and then use it in the comments section to abuse and insult the subject.

 

[Countessmeout]

Laird (/ˈlɛərd/) is a generic name for the owner of a Scottish estate, roughly equivalent to an esquire in England, yet ranking above the same in Scotland. In the Scottish order of precedence, a laird ranks below a baron and above a gentleman. This rank is only held by those lairds holding official recognition in a territorial designation by the Lord Lyon King of Arms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laird

Pippa's future father-in-law, David Matthews, is the Laird of Glen Affric and owns a 10,000-acre Scottish estate near Loch Ness in the Scottish highlands.
When David dies, James will inherit the title and Pippa will have her own title bestowed upon her as his wife, which she can use in the Commonwealth.
Pippa Middleton will get the title og Lady Glen Affric when she marries James Matthews  | Daily Mail Online

According to Debrett's 'Correct Form' (2002 Ed., p. 99), "a wife of a laird was invariably styled as Lady, followed by her husband's territorial designation (i.e lairdship), e.g. the wife of Cameron of Lochiel was called Lady Lochiel.... By the early 20th century, the laird's wife came to adopt her husband's full surname, and not just the territorial designation part, e.g. Joan Cameron, Lady Lochiel"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laird

Lady Glen Affric or Philippa Matthews, Lady Glen Affric

All which I said. My point being it is not a peerage. Its simply a honorary title. The way its being presented in the press and by others is that it is a peerage which it isn't. All I was doing was making that clear. One can not buy a peerage. James will only be Laird if his father leaves him ownership of the estate. He has 2 siblings or could be sold and money split. Unlike a peerage it doesn't automatically pass to eldest son and can be sold again.

Unlike peerages, lairdship can be inherited by a daughter. There is nothing to say Nora wouldn't get Glenaffric and her brothers other homes. He and Pippa love St Barts they could get Eden. No one knows but the family how the will is written.

 

[tonyferen]

The article in the UK Daily Express makes it clear that as the "Heir" (i.e. David Matthews' eldest son) James Matthews will inherit the courtesy title of Laird of Glenaffric.


Unfortunatley, Pippa is entitled to have the courtesy description of Lady Glenaffric. Once the couple are married Pippa can use the courtesy title "Mrs Matthews of Glen Affric the younger"


This is how the Scottish system has ALWAYS worked.

 

[Mirabel]

Well, I think everybody, (including me!) loves love, if you know what I mean, and the engagement and wedding of a well known person does generate a lot of clicks.

However, I have to say, most of the time when photos appear of Pippa in the Daily Fail and other tabs, such as when she's at an event or been photographed walking down the street to lunch somewhere, the commentators at the DM and elsewhere tend to come out with things like 'And this is news!' and 'Why are you publicising this person, DM!? ' or insults about her looks. (I'm just quoting what I've observed over the years.)

You're absolutely right!

But- who are those people kidding?
If they truly wanted news, they'd read the Times!

 

[tonyferen]

Pippa Middleton to inherit Scottish title after engagement to James Matthews | Royal | News | Daily Express


The UK Daily express article (on page 22 according to my UK Cousin) clearly states that on her wedding day Pippa will become "Mrs Matthews of Glen Affric, the younger". This is Scottish custom for the eldest sons (I.e. heirs) of Lairds.


As the paper says - as the eldest son, and as the Director of the family firm "Beaufort and Glen Affric Ltd. since 2007" - James Matthews is the heir of the Glen Affric lairdship.

Countessmeout says that the courtesy title of Lady Glenaffric will go to his daughter Nora - this is obviously WRONG!!!

Pippa will be, as all the papers are saying Lady Glenaffric one day. I personally do not think she will use the title.

 

[MichelleQ2]

as Pippa moves in circles with people with real titles, I doubt she would ever use an honorary title save possibly for when she was actually in Glen Affric in that capacity. I think she will be very happy being Mrs James Matthews.

 

[Countessmeout]

The simple fact is this is not a peerage. The newspaper unless they broke into the family vault and read the will can not say 100% which of the 3 kids will inherit. The family has 3 estates, 3 kids, nothing is for sure who gets what. We're not talking Baron X whose eldest son gets the title. I am not saying they wont, and if they do, great for Pippa. But we wont know for likely some decades as I don't believe his father is that old.

 

[tonyferen]

David Matthews has stuck to tradition - his eldest son is clearly the heir

Yes - we DO know for sure.

You need to READ the UK Express (page 22) article - James is the eldest son (this is what an "heir" is) and has his business "Beaufort and Glen Affric Ltd." tied up at his father's estate. James Matthews is the heir to the estate.

I repeat, as the documents mentioned by journalist Nick Gutteridge says - James is the Heir. James will inherit the courtesy title Laird of Glen Affric and Pippa WILL become Lady Glen affric.

Read the Company Sheets for James' company - Beaufort Glen Affric Ltd. Est. 2007- they are on-line


I hate this just as much as you, believe me. Cheers

 

[Roslyn]

An person's heir is the person entitled to their property after their death. In the case of a peerage, that heir is known in advance because the charter creating the peerage will spell it out, but in the case of a title attaching to a person because of their tenure of real estate, which seems to be the case in respect of Glen Affric, the owner's heir, and thus successor to the title, will be the person who inherits the property, and depends on the terms of the will, and his will does not become effective until he is dead and, whatever it says now, he might change it.

I have not read anything in connection with this case that leads me to believe otherwise. I will, of course, revise my opinion if directed to any document reliably stating otherwise.

 

[Curryong]

David Matthews is 72. That is a reasonable age and he might be near retirement, who knows.

With regard to Mr Matthews' property and money etc, (as far as the lairdship and Highland estate is concerned,) his younger son Spencer, in one of his innumerable interviews when he was on Made in Chelsea, stated that his father had warned all his children not to expect anything from his will, and there are no trust funds set up.

Now, David might decide to dispose of all his property and top end resorts in order to relax in his extreme old age. He might also make an arrangement with the one of his children who has shown some business nous (James perhaps) to run them until his death, when they may or may not be sold. I guess that's in the lap of the gods.

If Spencer Matthews was speaking the truth about his father's intentions however, it doesn't seem to me that he would order everything he owned sold at his and his wife's death in order for his children to live in the lap of unearned luxury for the rest of their lives.

(Nina (James's half sister,) married into the Mackie clan, another hugely successful and extremely wealthy family enterprise.)

 

[Denville]

Well I agree with whoever said that if Pippa is mixing with people who have real titles, she's not going to go around using this "designation"..

Pippa is in the papers, because people click on the articles and read them.
Those in the DM have generated hundreds of comments.
That's what the press loves to see. And that means there will be a lot more.

If nobody bothered, she wouldn't rate a mention.
It's all supply and demand.

I think once she is married and perhaps has a baby, the interest in her will be over. As things stand, she's been looked at for "who is she dating? Who will she marry?" and a little on "what "career" is she taking up today..."
But once the marriage story is done, she'll fade away.

 

[Scarebaby]

Why would she fade away? She's the sister of the future Queen of England and will always be a subject of interest.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I love the thought of a winter wedding. Maybe they can do as Lady Edith did, and have it on New Year's Eve, when all the decorations are still up!

In Scotland, to boot! I am reminded of the wedding that occurred in Scotland in the film 'Four Weddings and a Funeral'. Very pretty. But a wedding is usually from the bride's family. The Middletons have a very nice place of their own to stage the wedding as I think about it. Yet, Scotland does sound cozy for a winter wedding.

Ooooooo, I'd love to see a winter wedding. Some of the prettiest weddings I've been to have been near Christmas. Can't wait to see what she decides on.

Totally agree! It's going to be fun. It's just the beginning, too. I for one will be interested in her babies, and how the cousins play, etc. Color me hopeless.

I think (to quote an old Rod Stewart lyric) she wears it well... all the critique that is.

I think one of the finest things about Pippa an her immediate family is that they take repeated chucks on the jaw and just keep on keeping on. It shows resilience and maturity, IMO.

Well said. I agree. Fascinating family. Good people. IMO.

Why would she fade away? She's the sister of the future Queen of England and will always be a subject of interest.

Exactly so! I'll always be interested.

 

[Denville]

Why would she fade away? She's the sister of the future Queen of England and will always be a subject of interest.

? Camill has a sister, so had Diana. THeir sisters are not always in the news.. SHe's not of interest....

 

[Lady Nimue]

Times change. But also, the Middletons really are an interesting family, Pippa especially so.

Just the way it is.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

as Pippa moves in circles with people with real titles, I doubt she would ever use an honorary title save possibly for when she was actually in Glen Affric in that capacity. I think she will be very happy being Mrs James Matthews.

It is not so much what Philippa herself thinks. Maybe she is like Máxima: "Just call me Pippa, please"

But in official invitations, the Court Circular, guestlists, etc., when the Laird and Lady indeed, they probably will be enlisted or described as (in decreasing formality):

The Much Honoured The Laird of Glen Affric
The Much Honoured The Lady of Glen Affric

or

The Much Honoured James Matthews, The Laird of Glen Affric
The Much Honoured Philippa Matthews, The Lady of Glen Affric

or

The Much Honoured James Matthews of Glen Affric
The Much Honoured Philippa Matthews of Glen Affric

 

[MichelleQ2]

^^^^ if is protocol then of course there will be those times.... But curious does his father use that title now outside of Scotland?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

^^^^ if is protocol then of course there will be those times.... But curious does his father use that title now outside of Scotland?

I think the current Laird does not use the title by himself. Usually a titled gentlemen will not refer to himself with a title. Also not in correspondence. The Laird will most likely only have "Glen Affric" or a small monogram in the letterhead and simply sign it as "Matthews".

 

[royal rob]

? Camill has a sister, so had Diana. THeir sisters are not always in the news.. SHe's not of interest....

I think once the wedding and babies have come along the only ones interested in her will be some people on this forum.


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